I also support the women’s forum for the reasons outlined above.
On the other hand, I’m generally not in favour of other private forums, the reason being that they could lessen the amount of interesting discussion on the public forums. I’m not ‘gay’ but I’m really interested in discussions about gay issues. Anyway, I think it’s fairly clear if you’re a woman or a man (biologically speaking), but less clear whether you’re ‘gay’ or not. How would you prove you’re ‘gay’? So anyone could join the forum? Then why not just make it public? I’m not sure what the reason for other private forums would be. Obviously there is good reason for moderators having a private forum. If there was to be an ‘Adult’s Only’ forum with content not suitable for children, and we actually thought children (other than Formosa ) used this site, that might be another candidate, but I can’t really think of other good reasons for private forums.
So my ‘vote’: Keep the Women’s Forum, but no new private forums.
Agreed. And there’s no way I would join a private gay forum. Nor should I be asked to, since I’m not gay. If I WERE asked to join even though I’m straight, then what’s the point of it being private?
I think the value of a private forum is that people would feel more comfortable discussing personal topics there, and not just political and social issues like gay marriage or what have you. There are definitely things I talk about with my gay friends that I don’t bring up with my straight friends. (Of course we could make Wolf an honorary member of any gay forum so he can ask anything he wants about anal sex. )
The down side is, of course, a private forum would only serve the members of the forum. Is that compatible with the mission of Forumosa? (What is the mission of Forumosa?)
Agreed. And there’s no way I would join a private gay forum. Nor should I be asked to, since I’m not gay. If I were asked to join even though I’m straight, then what’s the point of it being private?[/quote]
If the moderators hadn’t been so eager to prune the posts between Closet Queen and Durnis Bane, you would all see that CQ wasn’t asking for a private gay forum. However, someone had an itchy pruning finger and moved them too fast.
In fact, in all the discussions on a gay forum, no one (that I’m aware of) has ever asked for an exclusively private gay forum.
I’ll let Maoman weigh in on that when he has time, but in the meantime, I’ll just say that according to Gus’ and Maoman’s oft-stated mission, the private forum idea is diametrically opposed to the forumosa mission.
I have never been to woman forum before, coz I’m not woman. I wish we could change our profile and change the gender by preference so we can take a peep into it from time to time…but anyway, I might not have time to do that with all the workload I got…and if I have to vote. Keep the woman’s private forum.
Therefore making it irrelevant to Gus’ thread, which has a very clear title.[/quote]
Yes, but the original question from Durnis to Closet Queen was because he was mistakenly under the impression, as all of you were above, that Closet Queen was asking for a private forum. Without those four posts, that wasn’t made clear anymore. Hence, you, sandman, and others misunderstood what Closet Queen was saying and, basically, criticized the idea as unnecessary.
If the moderator had let it stand, it would have taken up a total of four posts, and cleared up the question. In the end, the four posts it saved have been taken up by your, tigerman’s, Bu Lai En’s and other criticism of the “private gay forum” idea which was never there.
[quote=“Bassman”]I agree with private forums. My suggestion for one more that I mentioned before to Maoman is still a good one I think.
Good on the women too. Especially the one that I thought was a man, sorry Alien.[/quote]
If everyone agrees that private forums are ok, good things and the women should be allowed to keep them, then the question remains… who gets them. Apparently it is not gay men, though we never asked for a private forum. So, who?
[quote=“Bassman”]I agree with private forums. My suggestion for one more that I mentioned before to Maoman is still a good one I think.
Good on the women too. Especially the one that I thought was a man, sorry Alien.[/quote]
It’s okay. I’m used to being treated like one by now.
And btw, ‘schnook’ is a term of endearment. My mom has always called me one.
I’d like to make two main points:
I hope the women’s forum can remain private for the reasons outlined above. It serves a purpose. Although there’s not much traffic in the women’s forum at times, I hope the admins won’t pressure us to increase membership, or expect to see it frequented as much as the open forums. Women are often not as ‘verbal’ in online communities as men due to other interests, less time in front of a computer, etc. Who knows? It’s not been researched fully why, it’s just so. I’d refer you to the Sticky “Moderating” on the International Politics forum for links to research regarding this matter.
I must say that there has been some pressure to promote the women’s forum recently, I believe in order to ensure that the ‘privacy’ of that forum maintains a solid rationale. However, this issue is full of conundrums.
For example, if it’s private, how do we know some posters asking to join are really females unless at least one female on our forum has met them? So how can it be promoted, and how can membership be increased? Most of the members on the women’s forum now have been referred by other women in the community. This I think is the best way, rather than having a banner, or whatever. The happy hour meet and greet of women is another idea that has been tossed about.
I just feel like it’s not been given much of a chance yet as it’s been open for only a few months.
I also think there should be other private forums here, especially one for gays. If you use the women’s forum as an example, most of the members don’t ONLY just post there, but MOSTLY on the open forums. However, the women’s forum gives us a ‘haven’ to talk about more personal issues that we wouldn’t discuss in open forums.
By the same token, so would a gay forum. Having private forums, I believe, actually boosts the interest of the site as a whole, and does NOT tend to segregate it. It’s very clear from our example that this is the case. And the main argument set forth in opposition to the private forums was that it would segregate. It only segregates if one feels that by not being able to participate, one is being ‘discriminated’ against. I don’t get the impression that the men of forumosa feel that way at all. Do men feel discrimination because they don’t have to shop for bras in Taiwan? Would anyone who is NOT gay feel discriminated against for not being able to take part in a gay forum? I wouldn’t.
Of course this cannot be justified by saying that there should be other factions (religion, race, affiliations), but sex and sexuality are two very real issues that set all people apart from one another, and an area that should not be overlooked on an ‘openminded’ discussion forum with the sole aim of offering the foreign community a place to gather.
Who’s to say what ‘gay’ is and who’s ‘gay’. I reject traditional conceptions fo sexuality. Everyone’s ‘bi’ far as I’m concerned. There is no such thing as homosexuality or heterosexualtiy. Therefore I’m just as qualified as anyone else to join a gay forum.
As Sandman said, how do you prove your gay? If anyone can join, what’s the point of a private forum. I think the same could be said about most kinds of private forums except for somethign obvious like the Women’s Forum.
“Set all people apart form each other”??? What rubbish. Sexuality brings us together, baby.
Just to weigh in - I don’t see the women’s forum being quiet as necessarily a bad thing. It’s quiet because we all post on the public forum unless it’s something we regard as ‘women only’. We really don’t gather in some little cliquey way and discuss topics that belong out here. However in those specific cases we might want other women’s fair and frank opinions it’s very nice to have. And the knowledge base already there can be useful as well. I prefer that the forum be retained, without any pressure to increase traffic, but if it goes, I would probably just either not ask the questions that I might have, or otherwise take them over to parentpages.net or something, where the membership was predominately women, but there seem to be fewer participants. That’s just my personal take
Can you be more specific? What instances of “drooling” are we talking about? I’ve always thought that the posters on forumosa were a notch above those at tealit, etc. I’m not a drooler. And omni and sandman drool all the time, not just around women.
Alien, given that this is one of the core reasons you hold out for establishing a woman’s forum, could you explain why some men were invited yesterday to join? Yes, I’ve been told that they were all gay, but surely you know that not all gay men are effeminate. Gay men are football players, construction workers, florists and teachers, soldiers and accountants, ministers and cops. If you are sincere about women needing a place to be apart from men and their hideous masculinity, why did you allow some gay men to join? What was the criteria for being asked? Did they have to sashay when they walked? :s
Personally, I don’t believe that forumosan women need to be protected from the men here. In fact, I am struck again and again by the overall maturity level on this website when it comes to gender and sexuality issues. The recent threads on Breast Reduction surgery or STDs come to mind. I wish that we could be as tolerant of diversity in others when it comes to politics, or religion. Sure, there is some joking that goes on here, but it is just as often as not directed at men, (like this great thread!)
Anyway, some of the threads in the women’s forum may be of general interest. I recall one specifically about infant ear infections and misprescribed antibiotics that was posted in the women’s forum. (Remember that as admin, I see all the new topic subjects that get posted, no matter what the forum.) I also have a mucked-up right ear due to (I believe) misprescribed antibiotics. Being too “bashful” to jump in the woman’s forum and read the post in question, I PM’d the woman who had posted the topic, and she kindly relayed me the contents of what she had posted. Too bad that it wasn’t posted in the health forum. It might have benefited other male parents with the same concerns - especially men with local spouses that dont’ have access to forumosa or the women’s forum. I think that all kinds of issues aren’t just women’s issues either. Married men and men in long-term relationships are usually pretty familiar with their wives’ gender-specific issues, whether it’s menstrual cycles, biological clocks, kids, or health concerns. In a sense, they’re not really gender specific, since they affect my life/relationships with women. Why cut men out of the loop?
Another issue is moderating standards. A thread like “I like tight snatch” , while titillating to consider, wouldn’t fly in Forumosa. It’s not our mandate to provide that degree of explicit sexual expression online. Apparently different standards have been unilaterally applied to the woman’s forum - remember again that admin sees all new topic titles and names of the posters, whether we want to or not. “I like big cock” is not something that would stay on any other forumosa forum - even on a slow day.
Despite all my reservations, I would have been happy to let things lie, but then you unilaterally changed the parameters of your forum yesterday morning by excluding members not just on the basis of gender, but also on sexual orientation. Now Gus wants to talk about the value of having private forums. Why would you have done that? I thought you got what you wanted? :s
[quote=“Alien”]I must say that there has been some pressure to promote the women’s forum recently, I believe in order to ensure that the ‘privacy’ of that forum maintains a solid rationale. However, this issue is full of conundrums. For example, if it’s private, how do we know some posters asking to join are really females unless at least one female on our forum has met them? So how can it be promoted, and how can membership be increased? Most of the members on the women’s forum now have been referred by other women in the community. This I think is the best way, rather than having a banner, or whatever. The happy hour meet and greet of women is another idea that has been tossed about.
I just feel like it’s not been given much of a chance yet as it’s been open for only a few months.[/quote]
I don’t think it’s possible to be 100% sure of a poster’s gender, unless you want to let in only the people you’ve met personally, which basically makes this a “Taipei” women’s forum or worse yet, a private chatroom - one reason perhaps that your forum’s traffic has been lagging so much. I propose you let in anyone who says they are female. It’s possible that some guy might lie to get access, but let’s face it - if anyone is THAT determined, they could certainly get access in other ways, i.e. through girlfriends, elaborate posting ruses, etc. Has anyone actually met TravelGoddess? BTW, how did you determine that the gay men you invited into the women’s forum were actually gay? You took their word for it, right? If you can apply such loose standards to men getting access to the woman’s forum, then I think you can safely apply the same standards to the women.
My answer is basically the same now as it was then: The problem is, this is a public, free, community-oriented website. “A place to be private” is not our tagline. I highly support individuals like BraxtonHicks who have their own “niche” website, and I would always be in favour of exchanging links and banners with anyone who has a niche website in Taiwan. Doesn’t mean we’ll be getting a private baby-oriented forum anytime soon, though. Or a private business forum, or a private buxiban bosses forum, or a private MBA students forum, although these have all been suggested to me. And no, I’m not anti-baby, anti-business, anti-MBAs or anti-buxiban bosses…
Please understand that I am resisting the splintering/Balkanization/whatever of Forumosa.com. I think this website has a huge untapped potential, and I don’t want to dilute the essence of what makes this website great or make wrong turns in determining the future direction of this website. Forumosa’s “niche” is the ex-pat community, and anyone who is interested in the issues pertaining to the ex-pat community in Taiwan is welcome to contribute. We are growing in leaps and bounds , and keeping up with that growth can be challenging, but I can assure you of one thing - we won’t be narrowing our focus. :scooby:
What is it with you and wanting to get rid of all these fora? You can bop in anywhere you please as you are an admin anyway.
Do you want contributions from the women to support the cost of the forum? Do you need to make the Women’s Forum hidden, so that others don’t get forum envy?
It’s difficult enough to meet foreign women – not girls – here as it is. Now we have a safe space where I can ask certain questions which I don’t really want to ask of the general population on Forumosa. If I did, I would simply get on a bus and shout out my questions to the general public of Taiwan. I might be a computer geek or social misfit or whatever, but I would certainly appreciate it if you would not f*ck around with the one venue I have to make contact with these people on a regular basis. There are genuine issues I’m facing right now on which this forum is an important source of support, and no, it doesn’t just mean topics like “white girls and Taiwanese men” or “where can I buy a bra”.
Go ahead and f*ing wipe the Spanish Forum if you want, you’re dying to zap something. But it would be much nicer if you could try not to emulate most every bakery in Taiwan…“Oh, that’s a nice loaf of bread. I think I’ll get some again today…oh, they’re not carrying it any more.” Sheesh. :bluemad: :raspberry: :fume:
(At least the emoticons come much closer to expressing my feelings at this point! )
I do not support inviting any non-females into the Women’s Forum. I was not aware this was done – but then again I’m not the mod of that forum.
[quote=“Maoman”]My answer is basically the same now as it was then: The problem is, this is a public, free, community-oriented website. “A place to be private” is not our tagline.
[/quote]
No, this is a private website. It is not government-funded or member-supported (in the larger sense). Basically, since you own it, you do what you darn well please.
[quote=“Maoman”]
I highly support individuals like BraxtonHicks who have their own “niche” website, and I would always be in favour of exchanging links and banners with anyone who has a niche website in Taiwan. Doesn’t mean we’ll be getting a private baby-oriented forum anytime soon, though. Or a private business forum, or a private buxiban bosses forum, or a private MBA students forum, although these have all been suggested to me. And no, I’m not anti-baby, anti-business, anti-MBAs or anti-buxiban bosses… [/quote]
Buxiban owners probably SHOULD be embarassed to post in the open fora given some of the stuff I’ve heard about them (many Forumosan owners excluded, I suppose) but there is nothing intrinsically culturally different about owning a buxiban, starting a business, etc. There ARE issues that I do not feel comfortable discussing with men around. Your claims that the men of Forumosa are “mature” and “respectful” might fly for some, but not nearly all. I personally don’t care how many private fora Forumosa puts up, even if I’m excluded from all of them except Women’s Forum. I’m certainly not going to worry about what’s going on in one of them that I don’t have access to. And if you’re going to cite the “baby antibiotic” example, what does that have to do with Taiwan? Why should that thread even be on Forumosa, if you want to split hairs?
I am not feminist by nature, but damn you’re pushing me in that direction. It must be nice if you’re married and cozy in this country, with a steady job, a good income, and so on. If you’re freelancing and single and a woman, it’s a bit different. Do you think you could possibly get by without f*ing up one of the very few supports I can reliably access here?
Just firstly to say, that this was me (your discretion appreciated ), and I agree that this one could theoretically have gone in the health forum, in a different form. The only reason it went into the women’s forum was because I was upset about it and wanted to rant with the ‘assurance’ of a supportive environment, and without the (possible) snarky/unhelpful comments that are so often found on the public forums. I really didn’t want to have to deal with unsolicited quips at that time. In the absence of a woman’s forum I simply would not have posted it at all, or I would have gone to parentpages. So while I won’t speak for the other issues, this occurence does not support the argument against a women’s forum - there would simply have been no post to begin with. Having seen the post, Maoman was also free to start his own topic on ear infections etc.
I believe the invitation of gay men was done because Alien was receiving pressure to increase the ‘traffic’ or ‘participation’ in the women’s forum or some such, and saw this as a means of doing so. I personally think such pressure is uncalled for, for the reasons I already outlined in a previous post - most things go in the public forum, as they should.
There are other options for women, it is true - such as parentpages (although more for mums), or setting up their own group/board. It’s just that this will be traffic that does not go to Forumosa. It’s up to whoever decides these things whether they mind not being a ‘one-stop shop’ for some issues that women might find too personal for the male-dominated environment of Forumosa.
Ironlady, as I said before, I was content to let the whole thing lie. But the women decided to make the forum accessible to some men, but not others, thus defeating the purpose of the forum. Could you address that?
And enough about the Spanish forum - I was hoping that SOMEONE might take an interest in promoting it, but that hasn’t happened. WHich is why all new forums are being created out of a need, not out of a whimsy. You can relax - the SPanish forum isn’t being touched right now. A year from now who knows? If you want to guarantee its future, find someone who is willing to promote it. I have no contact with the Spanish community in Taiwan. I don’t even know if it’s a resource that would be of value to the SPanish community in Taiwan if they were aware of it.
BTW, the woman’s forum IS hidden (although there are links), donations are gladly accepted, but they do not buy agenda on forumosa, I didn’t bring up the issue of private forums, and I don’t even understand your baked bread metaphor, if that’s what it was.
) used this site, that might be another candidate, but I can’t really think of other good reasons for private forums.
, while titillating to consider, wouldn’t fly in Forumosa. It’s not our mandate to provide that degree of explicit sexual expression online. Apparently different standards have been unilaterally applied to the woman’s forum - remember again that admin sees all new topic titles and names of the posters, whether we want to or not. “I like big cock” is not something that would stay on any other forumosa forum - even on a slow day. 
BTW, how did you determine that the gay men you invited into the women’s forum were actually gay? You took their word for it, right? If you can apply such loose standards to men getting access to the woman’s forum, then I think you can safely apply the same standards to the women. 
:scooby:
:bluemad: :raspberry: :fume:
)