2008 USA Republican Party Presidential Campaign

Politics International Politics
41

[quote=“TainanCowboy”][quote=“spook”]In fact it’s difficult prior to the 1970’s to find a Christian public figure who wasn’t an anti-Semite in private life.[/quote]Spook -
Where do you come up with these things? This is one of the most profoundly ridiculous comments I have ever seen. And I have seen quite a lot.

[quote=“spook”]I don’t think all that visceral hatred and suspicion of people of Middle Eastern origin among the American public ever really went away. Hatred and stupidity aren’t that easily cured. It’s just been transferred onto other targets now that bigotry against Jewish people is no longer socially acceptable.[/quote]No matter what you want others to assume is the truth, “bigotry against Jewish people” has never been viewed as “socially acceptable” in mainstream American life. Yes, it was a factor and sometimes even a force to be considered in some social groups, but thankfully, from the time period of the '50’s until the present it has been recognized as indicative of a societal disease and viewed as such.
As for any ‘transference’ occurring, distrust of radical terrorist groups has been happening since history has been recording the human cultural experience. The fact that they have their roots in any particular geographic area or all happen to espouse membership in the same religion does suggest a certain characteristic that bears consideration. Perhaps you “think” differently.
I can not and will not attempt to speak for you.[/quote]

Profoundly ridiculous? Here’s what the ADL has to say about Billy Graham, arguably the most prominent Christian spiritual leader in the U.S. at the time:

[quote] ADL Says Billy Graham’s Anti-Semitic Views on Nixon Tape are “Chilling and Frightening”

New York, NY, March 1, 2002 … The Anti-Defamation League (ADL) today called the anti-Semitic views the Rev. Billy Graham shared with President Richard Nixon “chilling and frightening even today, 30 years after the statements were made.” ADL was shocked to learn from the just released tapes that the spiritual advisor to American Presidents believed and espoused age-old classical anti-Semitic canards.

Abraham H. Foxman, ADL National Director, issued the following statement:

  We were shocked to learn that a man of the cloth and stature of the Rev. Billy Graham held anti-Semitic views and freely shared them with President Richard Nixon, as revealed on the just released Nixon tapes. Rev. Graham's assertion that Jews had a "stranglehold" on the country and that a second Nixon Administration "might be able to do something," is chilling and frightening, even today, 30 years after the statements were made.

  It is shameful that one of America's most respected religious leaders and a spiritual advisor to Presidents believed and espoused age-old classical anti-Semitic canards. [/quote]
42

Hmmm…seems like a bit of disconnect on this…

[quote] The ADL Torch of Liberty Award was established to celebrate those who, by word and deed, seek to preserve the precious heritage of liberty, freedom, equality and democracy. It recognizes those in today’s world who demonstrate leadership and courage. Past recipients include former President George H.W. Bush,
[color=blue]evangelist Billy Graham[/color]
 and filmmaker Michael Mann.

Morris S. Casuto, ADL Regional Director, said, “The Torch of Liberty award is given to those dedicated volunteers who uphold the mission of the ADL, and are committed to a democratic society free of bias. Jerry Gumpel was a Past Board Chair and is still a very active lay leader – who works closely with us to eradicate anti-Semitism, bigotry and prejudice. This award is our acknowledgement of his fine efforts and support throughout the years.”
bNet.com[/quote]

[i]" The Torch of Liberty Award is presented to an individual whose involvement in business and community promotes equal opportunity and brings together people of all races, religions and ethnic backgrounds

Founded in 1913, the Anti-Defamation League is the world’s leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry."[/i]

Oy…Spook…ya think they know?

43

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Hmmm…seems like a bit of disconnect on this…

[quote] The ADL Torch of Liberty Award was established to celebrate those who, by word and deed, seek to preserve the precious heritage of liberty, freedom, equality and democracy. It recognizes those in today’s world who demonstrate leadership and courage. Past recipients include former President George H.W. Bush,
[color=blue]evangelist Billy Graham[/color]
 and filmmaker Michael Mann.

Morris S. Casuto, ADL Regional Director, said, “The Torch of Liberty award is given to those dedicated volunteers who uphold the mission of the ADL, and are committed to a democratic society free of bias. Jerry Gumpel was a Past Board Chair and is still a very active lay leader – who works closely with us to eradicate anti-Semitism, bigotry and prejudice. This award is our acknowledgement of his fine efforts and support throughout the years.”
bNet.com[/quote]

[i]" The Torch of Liberty Award is presented to an individual whose involvement in business and community promotes equal opportunity and brings together people of all races, religions and ethnic backgrounds

Founded in 1913, the Anti-Defamation League is the world’s leading organization fighting anti-Semitism through programs and services that counteract hatred, prejudice and bigotry."[/i]

Oy…Spook…ya think they know?[/quote]

Here’s the link to the ADL website describing Billy Graham’s anti-semitism: adl.org/PresRele/ASUS_12/4048_12.asp

Where’s your link? I’d be interested to see if your time line is fudged or not.

44

While he definitely used off-colored language, I don’t think Nixon deserves to be added to that list. Other than President Bush, Nixon was probably one of Israel’s greatest friends. He was close to Rabin and increaded aid to Israel by quite a bit (during and after the Yom Kippur war). I guess you could say his actions spoke louder than his words.

45

[quote=“Chewycorns”][quote=“spook”]

Kennedy, Lindbergh, Henry Ford and even Richard Nixon were all anti-Semites. In fact it’s difficult prior to the 1970’s to find a Christian public figure who wasn’t an anti-Semite in private life.
[/quote]

While he definitely used off-colored language, I don’t think Nixon deserves to be added to that list. Other than President Bush, Nixon was probably one of Israel’s greatest friends. He was close to Rabin and increaded aid to Israel by quite a bit (during and after the Yom Kippur war). I guess you could say his actions spoke louder than his words.[/quote]

Not everyone shares your views:

Nixon’s Israel support cannot excuse his anti-Semitism

[quote]Was Richard Nixon an anti-Semite? He reflected the anti-Semitic attitudes that have been endemic in the United States during much of the 20th century.

As we read new revelations about his attitudes toward Jews, there is no defense for the late president. The recently released White House tape recordings reinforce many of the deeply disturbing revelations that have come to light since the first batch of tapes was released in 1974. . . .

I was one of those Jews. Involved with Nixon over many years, I worked in many of his campaigns and served on his staff. Nixon knew that I was a Jew and understood my deep commitment to Israel and my passion for freedom for Soviet Jews.

He never made negative remarks about Jews in my presence . . .

For some Jews, Nixon’s support for Israel was the litmus test. Yitzhak Rabin actively campaigned for him in 1972, when Nixon got 37 percent of the Jewish vote, up from 19 percent in 1968.

On May 13, 1974 – four years after I had left the Nixon administration over the invasion of Cambodia, among other things – Nixon spoke directly about the impact of his recently revealed taped comments about Jews to Rabbi Baruch Korff, the chairman of the National Citizens Committee for Fairness to the President, a group that defended him.

Nixon viewed his support for Israel as proof that he was not an anti-Semite.

“Now I would say in terms of anti-Semitism, first, you have to be judged by your actions,” he told the rabbi. “There has been no stronger supporter of Israel than myself. Without the airlift and the alert, Israel would probably not have survived.” . . .

Nixon should be judged by his actions, both positive and negative. He was a great friend of Israel. He knew and valued his relationships with David Ben-Gurion, Golda Meir and Rabin. They in turn, valued their relationships with Nixon. He did save Israel from near destruction in 1973.

[b]At the same time, Nixon’s anti-Semitism, as it related to Jews as a group, was clearly stated and will be preserved for history in his tapes. . .

My conclusions about Nixon must be perfectly clear. Nixon’s magnificent support for Israel cannot excuse the anti-Semitic attitudes that he held. His abuses of power must never be excused by history. Nixon will be judged harshly by history and deservedly so.[/b]

[/quote]

46

Spook asked

Spook -
Its that maroon bit that looks different than the rest of the post…down at the bottom left of the quoted paragraph. ADL presented Rev. Graham with their Torch of Liberty Award in, I think, 2003. Date is at the link.
You didn’t know this?

47

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Spook asked

Spook -
Its that maroon bit that looks different than the rest of the post…down at the bottom left of the quoted paragraph. ADL presented Rev. Graham with their Torch of Liberty Award in, I think, 2003. Date is at the link.
You didn’t know this?[/quote]

Thanks. I just missed it. There’s your disconnect. Billy Graham was awarded the Torch of Liberty in 1969 – three years before his recorded conversation with Richard Nixon occurred and over 30 years before that conversation was made public.

“They don’t know how I really feel about what they’re doing to this country.”
[color=brown]-- Billy Graham to Richard Nixon, 1972[/color]

48

I remember Rev. Graham and Tricky praying in the Oval Office. I read the
Since I was one of the troops they were praying for…it was OK with me.

Weren’t you harping on the ‘extreme pressure of the Jews and Pro-Israeli elements’ and their influence on the US media and politics over the last few years on here?

Joined their team, eh Spook?

49

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]I remember Rev. Graham and Tricky praying in the Oval Office. I read the
Since I was one of the troops they were praying for…it was OK with me.

Weren’t you harping on the ‘extreme pressure of the Jews and Pro-Israeli elements’ and their influence on the US media and politics over the last few years on here?

Joined their team, eh Spook?[/quote]

A bigot is someone who ascribes negative characteristics to someone solely on the basis of their race, religion or ethnicity. The language of bigotry is “Jews . . . this”, “blacks . . . that” or “white people . . . this” or – and you might recognize this --, “Muslims . . . that.” So, for example, anyone who ascribes ‘extreme pressure’ to someone simply because they’re Jewish is a bigot.

There is a pro-Israel lobby though and it’s a demonstrable fact. It’s called AIPAC and it describes itself as one of the most powerful lobbies in Washington: Head of AIPAC boasts of political influence

Can you talk about AIPAC without being a bigot? You should be able to since it’s a matter of fact.

50

Is that ‘Spooks Lexicon’ you’re pushing?

How about a bet?

McCain wins the US Presidency. Thats my bet.

One 7-11 cigar is the wager.

51

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Is that ‘Spooks Lexicon’ you’re pushing?

How about a bet?

McCain wins the US Presidency. Thats my bet.

One 7-11 cigar is the wager.[/quote]

You’re on, punk, though I may have to arrange for my estate to pay up if I lose because if McCainiac becomes president I’ll feel like sticking my head in an oven – which, oddly enough, I do have because I had one installed in my home here in Taipei.

Does the home let its residents smoke? Maybe because you’re a foreigner you get “special” treatment, eh?

52

Another one of McCain’s ‘spiritual guides’. Youtube of Rev. Rod Parsley. He says, “We get off on war!”

On one hand, McCain supporters willl say, “Well, McCain didn’t sit in his church for 20 years. He just sought his endorsement for political purposes.”
Then on the other hand they will say, “Well, Obama sat in that guy’s church for 20 years. The only reason he did it was for political purposes.”

53

Hehe, yeah. And Obama was also criticized FIRST for not distancing himself from Wright, THEN for repudiating him for political purposes. Anyway the whole issue is just a corporate media ploy to prolong the Democratic primary and distract voters from ACTUAL issues that McCain is completely fucked on like the economy, foreign policy, the environment and health care.

Meanwhile, before anyone accuses me of writing outside the thread topic, here’s a new goody about Mr. Honorable:

McCain Pushed Land Swap That Benefits Backer

[quote]As McCain positions himself as a champion of environmental causes, observers of the Yavapai Ranch swap say it shows a paradox in the senator’s positions. At times, he has fought to protect the delicate desert ecosystem. But when wildlife concerns have thwarted development, his loyalties have shifted.

“When the public trust intersects with private interests, basically, he has favored land development . . . in every case,” said Rob Smith, director of the Sierra Club’s Arizona affiliate. [/quote]

54

[quote=“Dr. McCoy”]Another one of McCain’s ‘spiritual guides’. Youtube of Rev. Rod Parsley. He says, “We get off on war!”

On one hand, McCain supporters willl say, “Well, McCain didn’t sit in his church for 20 years. He just sought his endorsement for political purposes.”
Then on the other hand they will say, “Well, Obama sat in that guy’s church for 20 years. The only reason he did it was for political purposes.”[/quote]

John McCain on his spiritual guide:

[quote]“I am very honoured today to have one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide, Pastor Rod Parsley…I am very grateful you are here.”

And now, the great moral compass himself:

"I do not believe that our nation can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam....I know that this statement sounds extreme. But I am not shrinking back from its implications The fact is that...America was founded in part with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed[/quote]

washingtonmonthly.com/

As Kevin Drum notes in the link, he’s linking to al-Jazeera’s story on this. Broadcasting to hundreds of millions of Muslims that John McCain’s spiritual guide and moral compass says that America’s purpose is to see Islam wiped off the face of the Earth.

55

From Neo-con central:

[quote]Here’s Michael Goldfarb:

As to whether Bush is a recruiting tool for terrorists–who cares? Al Qaeda was recruiting before Bush was in office and they will continue to do so after he’s gone. The important thing is that we keep killing those recruits. Eventually, one side will give up.[/quote]

cato-at-liberty.org/2008/05/08/

Well, I suppose the nine US soldiers killed by AQI in Anbar in the last three weeks might have cared, but since when did a neo-con in a nice safe Washington office give a flying fuck about them?

vetvoice.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1211
VetVoice:: The Anbar Problem No One is Talking About

56

[quote=“MikeN”][quote=“Dr. McCoy”]Another one of McCain’s ‘spiritual guides’. Youtube of Rev. Rod Parsley. He says, “We get off on war!”

On one hand, McCain supporters willl say, “Well, McCain didn’t sit in his church for 20 years. He just sought his endorsement for political purposes.”
Then on the other hand they will say, “Well, Obama sat in that guy’s church for 20 years. The only reason he did it was for political purposes.”[/quote]

John McCain on his spiritual guide:

[quote]“I am very honoured today to have one of the truly great leaders in America, a moral compass, a spiritual guide, Pastor Rod Parsley…I am very grateful you are here.”

And now, the great moral compass himself:

"I do not believe that our nation can truly fulfill its divine purpose until we understand our historical conflict with Islam....I know that this statement sounds extreme. But I am not shrinking back from its implications The fact is that...America was founded in part with the intention of seeing this false religion destroyed[/quote]

washingtonmonthly.com/

As Kevin Drum notes in the link, he’s linking to al-Jazeera’s story on this. Broadcasting to hundreds of millions of Muslims that John McCain’s spiritual guide and moral compass says that America’s purpose is to see Islam wiped off the face of the Earth.[/quote]

If America was founded with the intent of wiping out some specific religion you have to wonder why the founders put separation of church and state first among the amendments to the U.S. Constitution. I’d say somebody has “lost his bearings” pretty badly on the concept.

57

This is a great article, even if its prediction turns out to be false:

Flawed Messengers and Wooden Soldiers: Why Obama Beat Clinton – and Why He’ll Beat McCain, Too

[quote]The impetus for this piece actually came this morning, as I tried to keep my eyes open watching John McCain on TV. I do not recommend this as a morning regimen. Try it. You’ll feel an overwhelming desire to crawl back under the covers. To the degree that you can force yourself to watch him sleepwalking around the dais and spouting empty syllables, you’ll find yourself wondering about peripheral issues. Like: why does a man who seems to be simmering with rage use the phrase “my friends” so compulsively? What’s the real skinny on that lacquered blond lobbyist? And how did they finesse the payoff he got from the Keating Five? Somehow, the man himself is just…not there.

He’s a Wooden Soldier.

But that’s the thing about McCain. It’s not just that his so-called “straight talk” is obviously badly-bent nonsense. Stylistically as well as politically, he’s everything wrong, everything wooden, everything false. Like Clinton, he seems to be missing a core, and that lack of authenticity makes every word he says immediately forgettable (unless it’s so dumb as to lodge sideways in the mind, like the Hundred Years War threat or his Bomb Iran joke.) [/quote]

God, that is SO true! He is such a non-candidate, I can’t even believe anyone dares back him. He has absolutely nothing to offer our country; the only thing his ‘supporters’ can do is try and make as much out of gossipy Obama-related non-issues as they can with hopes that the voters will just give in and turn off their brains again like they did four years ago. Resistance is futile…you will be assimilated…

[quote]…Clinton’s ultimate gift, among many, to Obama was obviously the Gas Tax Holiday. It nailed down her credentials as a Wooden Soldier – the epitome of the old-fashioned, say-anything, 20th-century politician. She went once too often to the voters-are-dullards well, and it finally pissed them off.

It’s a mistake McCain will make, too, because like Clinton he just can’t help it. Part of it is generational. Clinton and McCain came of age in a Nixonian universe – and there has never been a more Wooden Soldier than Nixon. (In my own personal dictionary, when you look up Wooden Soldier, there’s a photo of Nixon doing his ghoulish two-handed V-For-Victory salute.) And part of it is a choice, based on an outmoded belief that voters want an Impregnable Persona instead of a genuine human being.

But, in the early part of the 21st Century, that choice is dead wrong. The Democratic runoff proved it – and (you heard it here, folks!) it will be proved once again, thank God, in November, when Obama defeats John McCain and becomes our next president.[/quote]

God, PLEASE let this reporter be right… Well, I mean, he already IS right about Clinton and McCain, but I mean about November. The world won’t survive George Bush’s third term.

58

As I’ve said before, this is no time for America to be experimenting with untested races and genders.

59

60

So McCain hires a lobbyist to run the convention. He hires a lobbyist that used to represent the Burma junta.
That’s too funny.
Official Chosen by McCain to Run Convention Resigns

How’s that image makeover going?