The urge to punish is not much different from the urge to offend.
Admit it. Almost everyone here is getting their rocks off on this.
This thread reads like a drunken sadists fantasy.
I believe in protecting society, and I have empathy for - but would not defend - the desire for revenge.
What I do not believe in is punishment.
If you think that anything that has been said here so far in this thread will help in any way to help prevent a tragedy like this from happening again then you are :loco:
The urge to punish is not much different from the urge to offend.
Admit it. Almost everyone here is getting their rocks off on this.
This thread reads like a drunken sadists fantasy.
I believe in protecting society, and I have empathy for - but would not defend - the desire for revenge.
What I do not believe in is punishment.
If you think that anything that has been said here so far will help in any way to help prevent a tragedy like this from happening again then you are :loco:[/quote]
Iâm curious what you would say if someone did this to YOUR daughter? Would you still be on your moral high horse? If you say âyesâ, then you are :loco:
I would want to kill the person who did it, and I suspect that somewhere inside me there would be at least a spark of hope that someone would prevent me from doing so.
Like Bob, Iâve been reading with morbid awe all the posters who are falling over themselves dreaming up violent ends for the father.
Not to defend him or his actions, but I doubt very much that he woke up one day and decided to become a homicidal drunkard. He almost certainly must have grown up in the same sort of violent, alcoholic environment as he subjected his child to.
Itâs very sad to say, but had this girl grown up into adulthood, she too would probably have become like her father, or would have married a man just like him.
I expect that someone will write about me being on a moral high horse too, but thatâs much too simplistic an explanation. Iâve seen this sort of thing in my past and I have come to believe that the only solution is to stop the cycle of violence and abuse by finding out what brought it on in the first place. Scourging, whipping or stoning her father will not achieve this.
Doctors should know they can refuse to treat if they are physically incapable of doing it. But if they start asessing or treating, or say they have asessed someone when they havenât then they are culpable. No one be blaming this doctor if he said âI canât look at this patient because I am exhausted and incapacitated through lack of sleepâ. I think we all accept doctors are only human. But he lied. You just canât do that if peopleâs lives are in your hands.
I donât care if it was a conscious decision or not, and Iâm sick of this âhe was a victim of his environmentâ bullshit. HE BEAT HIS KID. There is no excuse for that, at all, and anyone, anyone who does that deserves to be subjected to serious, serious physical pain. There is no justification for beating a child. I donât give a shit what happened to him as a kid, I donât care how drunk he was, I donât care one iota. Screw him.
You may be able to deter some kinds of crimes. Not sure about this one. Anyway the state wonât be able to justify torturing the guy, but chances are they will put him in a prison somewhere with some lovely inmates who will do the job. Maybe they will take turns sodomizing him. Would that make you happy? Would it ensure that he comes out of prison in better control of his violence? Would it bring his daughter back?
If you believe that he should recieve the death penalty because he poses a threat to society then you are obliged to carry out that punishment as humanely as possible. Otherwise you are giving in to the same evil impulse that motivated him.
If you believe that he should be tortured as a deterance then you are advocating violence as a way of preventing violence. I donât think it would work.
What might work would be more people stepping in whenever they see violence, especially against children, instead of waiting until something like this happens and then foaming at the mouth over a bunch of sadistic revenge fantasies.
I donât care if it was a conscious decision or not, and Iâm sick of this âhe was a victim of his environmentâ bullshit. HE BEAT HIS KID. There is no excuse for that, at all, and anyone, anyone who does that deserves to be subjected to serious, serious physical pain. There is no justification for beating a child. I donât give a shit what happened to him as a kid, I donât care how drunk he was, I donât care one iota. Screw him.[/quote]
let me see if I can follow your logic. He beat the shit out of someone, so we should beat the shit out of him, and then he beats the shit out of someone else and they beat the shit out of still another. You see how the cycle continues? you really donât understand the concept of irony do you?
Iâm sure your predictable response would be that you would kill him, but then what, someone else fills his shoes.
The answer is find out the root causes and stop the cycle
[quote=âzsâ]He beat the shit out of someone, so we should beat the shit out of him, and then he beats the shit out of someone else and they beat the shit out of still another. You see how the cycle continues?..
The answer is find out the root causes and stop the cycle [/quote]
find out the root causesâgood luck thereâbut in the interim, fuck this guy, because he beat a little kid, his own daughter no less not âsomeoneâ, to a horrible death. itâs just that simple. in my knowledge of human nature, I would rather the cycle of violence continue than the cycle of people committing absolutely insane, disgusting crimes unpunished continue.
maybe not this one, but crime in general should be deterred and this one is particularly horrible. it wouldnât make me happy that he be tortured. if the conditions of his imprisonment were not exactly what he desired i wouldnât care. i donât disagree with the death penalty in a case like this if the facts are 100% uncontested. if there is any doubt i donât agree with it.
In the human rights forum there is a lot of gnashing of teeth going on over the fact that some government official has advocated corporal punishment for Taiwanâs bad guys (donât imagine theyâll be spanking too may ladies), while here in the open forum everybody is calling for blood.
Didnât the folks over in human rights forsee a situation like this?
Well, itâs not always black or white. All the bad guys should be looked at on case by case basis. If a bad guy simply enjoys inflicting pains on others, in other word, is cruel by nature(like the Machine character in 8MM) then I believe he or she should be punished with the same kind of cruelty. But in the cases of someone who was abused as a kid, then subjecting him/her to the same kind of cruelty would most likely do nothing other than making him even more twisted and bitter.
[quote=âziggy stardustâ]
The answer is find out the root causes and stop the cycle[/quote]You sound like you either know what the root cause is, or think you can discover it. Want to enlighten the rest of us?
<-- wonders why the hell people like this have kids in the first place
Why not take the proposal for corporal punishment mentioned in the human rights forum and use it âregularlyâ in cases of domestic violence. Nothing extreme but enough to hurt, and a few days in jail after to settle down and to recieve a bit of anger management counselling.
This is a bit of an about face on my part here I realize, so please, refrain from pointing that out. I just thought it through a bit more. And the logistics of this plan would be a nightmare I realize but a nightmare is exactly what a lot of people live with now. I know a thirty year old woman who is still physicaly afraid of her parents. They can and do beat her regularly although not very badly.
another scary note: this could easily happen to one of us. weâre not at the top of the pack here. they donât have room at the hospital so they send us home in a bag courtesty AIT,canada, etc.
AIT will not send you back if you die here. Back in 1998-99 an elderly American tourist from Ohio died here soon after arriving. She had no family in the US. AIT refused to do anything and her body stayed in the NTU morgue for a year before a local Taoist temple claimed the body and held a funeral ceremony. As I recall, AIT could even spare anyone to attend.
Forget AIT if you have a problem whether youâre alive or dead.
[quote=âziggy stardustâ] let me see if I can follow your logic. He beat the shit out of someone, so we should beat the shit out of him, and then he beats the shit out of someone else and they beat the shit out of still another. You see how the cycle continues? you really donât understand the concept of irony do you?
Iâm sure your predictable response would be that you would kill him, but then what, someone else fills his shoes.
The answer is find out the root causes and stop the cycle[/quote]
No, youâre missing the key point. If someone beats the shit out of an adult, while I agree they should be punished for it, Iâd be much more reluctant to side with a violent punishment. Adults are substantially more capable of defending themselves, or avoiding situations in which theyâre more likely to get a thrashing. But beating a child, let alone a goddamned four year old is a different story altogether. How is a four year old supposed to defend themselves against a grown man? And Iâm fully aware of the cyclic thing, but in the case of someone whoâs enough of a pussy at any level to beat a child, I doubt theyâd have the balls to take on a grown adult. Oh, and donât be so fucking patronizing with that cycle stuff - Iâve seen that shit, I know as much as I can about it without being intimately part of it, so shut the fuck up please.
And no, I wouldnât kill him. Death is too good for scum like him. He deserves to feel every last second of the pain inflicted.
Yes, finding the root cause is the best way, but that doesnât help in the meantime does it, and if every single person who ever beat a child got the shit kicked out of them, it might deter a lot more in the interval. And even if it doesnât, I donât care, anyone who is willing at any level to beat a child isnât deserving of sympathy anyway.