[quote=“QuietMountain”]
if you haven’t noticed from my other posts, the cute little rainbow flag attached to my posts, or my signature block that I am gay. [/quote]
Well, not only are you in an abusive relationship, it looks like you are going straight to hell with your sinful practices.
No, seriously, I think people like Frank and I have just tried to give you advice based on the bigger picture. You also don’t really say if you are out or not to his family. If you went to all this trouble and are making all these sacrifices, and are still his dirty little secret, I’d say scram now.
And, as I’ve mentioned before, I am trying to do this. Hence, starting this thread and asking for advice. Which I appreciate, by the way.
I’m not quite sure why you think my bf is in control or, actually, what you mean by “control.” As I’ve said numerous times… he did not force me to come here. Nor, has he forced me in any way (physical, emotional, or otherwise) to stay here. Both of those decisions have been mine. And, as I’ve also said before, I am aware that, depending on how things go, whether I am able to adjust or not, etc… etc… I may find that, for my own sanity and/or well-being, I have to leave and go back to the US, which will probably necessitate us breaking up.
Two points to this… One, it doesn’t always “feel” like you are just trying to give me advice based on the bigger picture. It feels like you and Frank are attacking my relationship and criticizing my decision to sacrifice and come here. It feels like neither of you would sacrifice for anyone and can’t understand that I would or why I would. So, instead of trying to understand me or truly help me, you are attacking/criticizing.
And, please, don’t give me the “truth hurts” kind of crap. From the start you’ve both told me to dump my bf and scram because, in your opinion, the relationship isn’t worth it. How should I take that? :?:
Two, he is out to his family and they do know about us.
Finally, I’d like to ask you a question, Flicka… would you ever sacrifice anything or put up with rough times in order to stay with someone you loved? Or, do you see any type of sacrifice or trouble too much to ask? From your posts, and I may be completely wrong, I’d say you are a “when the going gets rough, scram” type of person.
Flicka has a decidedly pragmatic view of relationships, I’ve found. Totally acknowledged, admired even. I’m a romantic at heart, to my unending detriment. Flicka’s a nice guy, once you get past the avuncular outer shell.
Isn’t frankforumosa the alter ego of a regular poster?
I’d say QM’s relationship is far from abusive, from what he’s written. I’ve certainly made decisions about my own career, even my livelihood, that have affected my relationships. There’s love, and there’s survival. You hope that you can have both, but it isn’t always easy to keep the two in balance.
I’m sure Flicka is a nice guy, though I’ve never met him. And, whether it seems obvious or not, I do appreciate him taking the time to post his ideas and opinions.
It is just that I have met a lot of gay men over the last few years that seem to be very anti-relationship. (I’m not saying Flick is anti-relationship. Like I said, I don’t know him. But, I do get that sense from his comments. Of course, that could just be the pragmatism that you mentioned, Tomas.)
It seems like… and I don’t know if I’ll explain this well, since it is late and I’m tired… but, it seems like society has denied us (homosexuals) the ability to have relationships for so long – telling us they were sinful, that we couldn’t be successful at them, forcing us to hide who we are and, therefore, making it difficult to maintain relationships, not giving us the legal means to maintain our relationships, etc… – that many gay men have bought into that view. And, therefore, they think that gay men don’t need, can’t have (or shouldn’t have, because we are then “copying” straights) relationships.
So, when these “anti-relationship-ists” see someone in a long term/successful relationship, they just can’t seem to understand it or accept that someone would want to maintain that. And, they really can’t understand why anyone would sacrifice for it. So, they condemn and criticize.
Again, let me make it clear that I am NOT, in any way, saying that Flicka is like this. Again, I don’t know him. This is just something that came to mind as I read Tomas’ last post and mused over the direction this thread has taken.
These anti-relationship gay men are sort of like the feminists who fight so hard for the right to be whatever they choose to be. Then criticize women who choose to be housewives. The gay community has fought long and hard to be recognized as equal to straights, to be given the same rights as straights, to be able to live our lives the way we want to, just as straight people are allowed. Yet, when a member of the gay community chooses to to be in a relationship, they just can’t (under)stand it.
Ok… I was lying in bed and couldn’t stop thinking about it. So, I had to post this or I know I wouldn’t have gotten to sleep. I know, I think too much. But, now I’m afraid it didn’t make sense, even though it made sense in my mind. Oh well…
If you play, and you are willing to pay (quotation form someone). Nobody can criticize you, and you should not complain later in your life. Think again, don’t say YES I CAN spontaneously, because it’s not easy to achieve. Complaining is not an action of moving your mouth–it’s OK. Truly Complaining causes trouble when you waste your time & energy, and damage your soul & heart.
I don’t think there is a best arrangement and decision in the world. The odds take a part in every sort of decisions. But WE are the most crucial factors.
Do it and accept the result.
I think if QuietMountain is willing to pay the price of his relationship, we should stop questioning it, and start to offer productive advise.
Based on vague posts, I really don’t have a clear picture of QT
QM seems to be a thoughtful, decent human. I felt the need to weigh in here due to some of the negative comments. Yes, things often go pear-shaped, but there is no need for us to hasten that state. QM seems to have the right instinct–become involved in some more community and self-development activities and give the situation more time.
[quote=“kimichen”]Do it and accept the result.
I think if QuietMountain is willing to pay the price of his relationship, we should stop questioning it, and start to offer productive advise.[/quote]
I think I’ve already answered this a number of times. Are people actually reading what I write? Or, are my writing skills worse than I ever knew and you all just don’t understand?
I was willing to accept the consequences of my decision when I first decided to move here. And, I am still willing to continue to accept the consequences of my decision, both to move here and to stay here. This is why I’m trying to find ways to change my attitude toward being here and/or adjust to life in Taiwan.
I don’t know how else I can say it to make it clearer. And, I’m not sure how many more times I have to say it before people start reading it/understanding it.
[quote]Based on vague posts, I really don’t have a clear picture of QT
First of all, you have a strong relationship with a local and that’s always a great help. Part of your partners contact surface is yours, and that’s always better than being here on your own, with a contact surface that’s limited indeed. At least in that respect, you are well on your way. If your partner supports you, then things are always better. He will have to take a lot of complaints from you. If he is not willing to do that, then well, sooner or later I would call it quits. He will be mentally strained a bit more as well, and that’s a part of life when choosing the joys, challenges and sorrows of a intercultural relationship. It is likely to be a problem for one partner to live in the other partners country, and the solution of that problem will be a problem for the other, as my dad once said, when my sister was about to be engaged to a bloke from France.
Don’t be too dependent on your partner - and do not live your life thru him, no matter what you do. If he does not like his situation and bitch a bit about traffic, traditional family patterns etc, then the negative influence on you will be disproportionally big. That could prolonge the moderate culture shock, you are battling now.
Another good thing is that you make sure that the job you have is one, which furthers your career or which makes you happy or both. Being part of a normal workplace and the things going on there always make you happier.
Making sure that you have your own life, and not just bubble up together with your partner. Get out, explore, find a mountaineering group and climb yushan, whatever. If you are the only foreigner in a Taiwanese group, good. If you are a few foreign gays hanging out together all the time drinking beer and complaining about taiwan, then take care. Too much of that has a bad influence on your mood and your impression of this island.
Accept the fact that living abroad places a different stress on you and that you are dealing with a continous adjustment process. It might last as long as you stay here, or you might just fit in one day. Hard to say if you will ever fit completely in, but don’t count on it, sorry.
You can’t change taiwan and the local attitudes toward anything here. There are 21 million Taiwanese and only one you. Change yourself instead, accept the pollution, the traffic, the way people treat each other etc. You can shout out against it, and well, sometimes you might win. Live with things here, and save your complaints and moans and resistance for where it hits you and really matters to you.
I assume that your Mandarin is good.
Be seen as part of your partners family. If they draw you in, at least you are part of something here, where ppl will care about you and help you. That matters a lot.
Stop thinking about total integration and flawless acceptance. That does not happen - at least it has not happened to me. There will always be frictions, as you are you and taiwan is taiwan. Just accept them - you will become less sensitive over time.
Take a break from Taiwan once in a while - and blow off your steam on this forum.
You need to get out find some hobbies, get more friends, and do a bit more sight seeing around the island. I study languages, took up firedancing and have a hydroponic lettuce set up.
You should find something that you like or start to learn something new, not because you need to, but because you want to.
It was exceedingly difficult for me. I absolutely hated Taiwan in the beginning and I’m still only ambivalent to it. I’m lucky to have an understanding loving gf.
What do you like to do? What do you wnt to do? Then go out and do it. If you’re teaching or working money shouldn’t be a problem. This was the key for me. Once I paid off all my debts and started having money available for my goals, hobbies and purposes, life got a whole lot better. I also have a lot of good foreign friends to talk to.
I was sick for 6 months straight and had a boss that hated me and made me feel hated. I didn’t know what I was doing and was kind of lost. The best thing that happened was that I was fired. Instead of relying on other people to help me, I learned how to “wipe my own ass.” I became very adventorous at this time and started going out and looking around. I started reading more and networking with people.
Good luck, this is hard. Most of my friends are either in the “very busy” category or in the “flighty” category. I do have a large group of long term friends and meeting up once a month to hash out what we are doing, have done and are planning to do. Also it gives us an oppurtunity to have a small bitch session from a sympathetic ear. As I stay here longer, it’s turning into how to make the system work for you, instead of a bitch session.
This thread should be retitled, “Referendum: Quiet Mountain’s Personal Life”. Perhaps you should add a poll at the top:
Quiet Mountain should
a. Get the hell out of Taiwan and find a new boyfriend ASAP
b. Move to Canada, get citizenship, and marry his boyfriend there
c. Stay in Taiwan but develop new friends & hobbies
d. Buy a bottle of red wine, some razorblades, and take a nice warm bath
[quote=“mod lang”]This thread should be retitled, “Referendum: Quiet Mountain’s Personal Life”. Perhaps you should add a poll at the top:
Quiet Mountain should
a. Get the hell out of Taiwan and find a new boyfriend ASAP
b. Move to Canada, get citizenship, and marry his boyfriend there
c. Stay in Taiwan but develop new friends & hobbies
d. Buy a bottle of red wine, some razorblades, and take a nice warm bath[/quote]
I have started to feel a bit like Howard Dean. But, only a bit, mind you! By the way, I vote for “B.” Though, “C” will certainly work for the time being. “A” is not a consideration at the moment. And, well… “D” won’t work. I don’t like red wine.
Though, I have appreciated many of the thoughtful comments, including the last two posters.
Just a few comments related to Mr. He’s post…
It definitely has been a help having him around. He does support me (and says he will always support me, even if that means me returning to the US). And, yes, he does listen to me bitch. Poor guy!
It was less of a problem for him to live in the US because his English skills were already very good, so there was little communication barrier, and he had already lived there on his own for about 2 years, before we met.
Depending on him too much is one of my greatest concerns. Which is one reasons I’m trying so hard to learn Mandarin. Even though, being in a relationship, we have to be willing to depend on each other, since I am more “out of place” here, I tend to depend on him more than he on me right now. He says he doesn’t mind. But, I know it can get to be annoying after awhile. Therefore, I am trying my best to do things on my own, if/when I can.
AMEN Brother!!! I am working on this.
Actually, even though we live together and work at the same company right now, I spend a lot of time away from him. Some of my friends are also his friends. But, many of my friends, though they know him, are not his friends. For instance, about every other Sunday I go out to brunch with some of my friends, both Taiwanese and foreigners. He has never joined us, though, of course, he is always invited.
This I am aware of… but, thanks for reminding me.
Never thought I could change Taiwan. And, don’t really want to try. As for changing myself… again, it is the reason I started this thread in the first place.
You are incorrect, sir!! But, I’m working on it.
I go with him to family dinners and get togethers all the time. The two of us periodically join his sister, her bf and/or some of his cousins for movies, dinner, etc… We just recently went on two trips with his sister and her bf. The weekends I don’t stay at our place in Neihu, go to brunch with my friends, etc… I usually spend up in San Zhi with him and his family. I’ll be spending Chinese New Year with him and his family for the second year. I even asked his mother if I could stay there, in Mandarin. Am I good or what?
Again, I am aware of this… but, again, thanks for reminding me.
Then things don’t look that bad after all! We all have our dark days. I know a bloke who has been here many years, and he’s still thinking about what he does here. I have met another guy who has been here 25 years on an off, doesn’t speak a word of anything asian, and who bitches about everything.
Give it time, it’s a hard process. It took me 1+ year to adjust, and I still have my bad days.
Finally, I’d like to ask you a question, Flicka… would you ever sacrifice anything or put up with rough times in order to stay with someone you loved? Or, do you see any type of sacrifice or trouble too much to ask? From your posts, and I may be completely wrong, I’d say you are a “when the going gets rough, scram” type of person.[/quote]
My idea of sacrificing in order to stay with a loved one is going to a restaurant you hate, but that person loves. Or going to a dinner party you know you’ll hate, even though it means a lot to you your partner. But moving from a developed country to an undeveloped one with a totally different culture you have no background in, only to take up a miserable job, and not having any good friends is a little too big of a sacrifice for me.
I think it is great that you are out to your bf’s family. He and his family sound like keepers whose heads and hearts are in the right place. I am in an relationship, and my gay friends in the States are all in very monogamous, serious relationships. I can understand sacrifice. But it seems like you are the only one doing the sacrificing. Straight foreign couples here will sacrifice because they have children, or because a stint at an expat job here means great professional oppurtunities and pay down the road.
If you are unhappy at your job, you don’t have to wait it out for six months. Look around, ask around and get out. I know there is always the feeling that you’ll be left high and dry without a visa, that you won’t find something else, everybody has these fears, and they usually turn out to be unfounded. I’ve made lots of good foreign friends at different jobs here. Also, I would make friends who are not in your boyfriend’s circle of friends. This helped me a lot. You don’t want friends who will go blab back to your boyfriend about everything you’ve said and done.
Been a’ following this thread for a while. Lots of good advice but I suspect that you knew a lot of what has been suggested already to be what you need/should do to make your stay in Taiwan more pleasant(I want to emphasize that I mean this in a good way…usually when one asks good questions they have an idea of what the answers are going to be ).
Have you started to implement some of these suggestions yet? Don’t wait and don’t think too much…just do! Don’t, “I will wait until Saturday at 3pm to make some changes”. It is so easy to put things off here in Taiwan. I have found it helpful to think, “Goddamnit, I am not satisfied with my situation and what am I going to do about it? I need to get started on making some changes right now because I am too important a person to blow off.”
Don’t need to do anything major but I do expect to you to let us know within 24 hours ONE thing you have changed to make your life here in Taiwan a bit better. That is your homework assignment for today . I guess what I am trying to do with this post is to give you a friendly kickstart kick in the pants.
(I think I need to be slapped hard, I am beginning to sound like Timothy Robbins :shock: )
I’m glad it was a friendly kick in the pants. However, I already started on this before you kicked me… so, stop kicking.
Wednesday night, I met another foreigner for dinner and coffee, in an atempt to make some more friends. She had contacted me through Forumosa, due to this thread.
Also on Wednesday night, I took a “test” on eligibility of getting residency in Canada. I also downloaded the forms that need to be filled out to start the process. I know this won’t get me to be more comfortable here, but it may solve the problem all around. The reason is that, as long as one of us can get residency, the other can get it automatically through him.
And, today, I sent out a resume for work closer to what I was doing in the US. It may, actually, only turn out to be contract work. But, for now, while I look for something else, it will at least let me get back in to the “field” and (for a few hours a week) let me do something that has meaning for me.
This will be my one and only update… as, this thread has dealt enough with my personal life. I originally was hoping I’d here more stories from others about how they have adjusted and/or from people who were having the same issues. I’ve heard some of that, but have felt I’ve spent more time talking about my life and my relationship with my bf.
Enough is enough!
As long as your aren’t starting to sound like or look like Richard Simmons. “All right ladies!!! Move those butts!!!”
But, now I’m afraid it didn’t make sense, even though it made sense in my mind. 
Oh well…
I have started to feel a bit like Howard Dean. But, only a bit, mind you! By the way, I vote for “B.” Though, “C” will certainly work for the time being. “A” is not a consideration at the moment. And, well… “D” won’t work. I don’t like red wine. 
).