I’m an American. 
[/quote]
I’m black from the waist… oh nvm.
I’m not denying that. I’m just asking was she given an opportunity to study Korean? I suspect access to Korean was not the same as French in the school system she went to.
I went to a high school in NYC that was about 40% asian and equal divided between White, Blacks, Hispanics. Kids will start self segregating at this age. Just an observation.
[quote=“jdsmith”]
If you feel you missed out on something Chinese when you were young, I’m sorry to hear that. But as an adult, it should be time to get over it, eh? It’s your choice. 
[/quote]
I don’t because my parent took the time to ensure I was educated in Chinese and particapate in the Chinese American community when I grew up abroad. But I also know what happens to kids that are less fortunate and don’t live near a large Asian community either. They are the ones that miss out.
And that is the basis of the rub in this argument. I dont agree with that comment. You are saying that the perfect world i was talking about to TM on already exists, sorry, but that bubble needs bursting, it doesn’t. Hopefully it might in the future though i have my doubts.
If it existed, then why do we have religious and cultural conflicts, Protestant against Catholic, Muslim against the Hindu, Shi-ite againt the Sunni, Tutsi against the Hutu, racism against immigrant communities, plus all the other shit that goes on. What about the Fijians attitudes over the Indians in there country that are Fijian by birth etc.
AC makes a good point. Self-segregration is one of the most common and insidious forms of racism, and it’s putting blinders on to deny that people are always going to do this. We waiguoren living in Taiwan do this all the time ourselves, or else there wouldn’t be ‘foreigner’ pubs or special events like rugby teams and hiking clubs for us. Most foreigners in Taiwan don’t hang out with the locals in their free time, they hang out with fellow expats.
Walk into any cafeteria in any school in America and you’ll be struck by how the kids of different races all sit at different tables. There are ‘black’ and ‘white’ churches, too. And isn’t it funny how people of different ethnicities seem to congregrate in Little Italy or Chinatown?
:s
If I can pull you back in for just a moment…
How do you define “heritage”? Is it defined by race? If a white child (of unknown nationality) is adopted from China and taken back to the US, is his heritage Chinese, American, or just Caucasian in some general way?
I think there is a vast difference between teaching a Chinese adoptee about Chinese history and culture in anticipation that one day she will be curious about China, and teaching this child that her culture is Chinese, that her heritage is Chinese, and that she should identify with Chinese culture. Do you agree there is a difference?
I don’t see any problem with teaching the child about Chinese culture. It only means that the parents are trying their best.
The child will grow up and be American no doubt; is there anything wrong with knowing about where one comes from? The child can decide for herself once she’s grown up whether to pursue that thread that ties her to her country of origin, or not. All her choice…
I do agree with your distinction, Gao Bo Han. It’s similar, I guess, to the situation of parents of multiracial children. I would be inclined to let them sort out “who they are” for themselves (typically this continues to evolve until they themselves have kids), but to prepare them for the likely possibilities.
A key aspect is that group identity is not just something that we choose for ourselves, but is often assigned to us. An adoptee from China will be in a different position than an adoptee from Romania, by virtue of how others (including other East Asians in the case of the first kid) will regard one versus the other. To me it’s not so much a matter of “heritage” since we can easily imagine a situation in which everybody involved might be wrong. (Maybe the kid is really a Tibetan or something.)
Speaking of Tibet, when I was in Lhasa a few years ago–walking around the Barkhor market with some other foreigners–some Tibetans began pointing to us for the benefit of a young child in their company. Apparently the child in question was mixed race (Tibetan / Europid). What responsibilities do you suppose his family would have (let us assume the biological father is no longer available–and no, it wasn’t ME!) in view of his half-whiteness?
What if non-Muslims adopt a “Muslim” child? Do they have a responsibility to raise it as a Muslim? Does it matter how old the kid is? Should they change its name to match the religion they plan to assign it? (Gandhi instructed a Hindu to raise a Muslim child as Muslim, but that was a special case, since it was meant as penance for the Hindu for murdering a Muslim child during Partititon.)
Several forms of “international” identity are also available as practical social possibiltiies. I’ve mentioned Baha’is and Esperantists on other threads. I suppose you could also take them to Disney’s Epcot Center a lot…?
I think religion really depends on how accessible the teaching is in the area. Muslims in the USA are half-way driven underground these days. Rebellious teens in the US are dating Muslim teens to illustrate they are rebelling.
The point being that if the adopting parents don’t have access to those cultural and religious centers, there is no point in trying to force them to bring their adopted child to an acclimation center.
But if the parents are near such centers, it should not be considered a burden or unnatural to subject their adopted child to “foreign” brainwashing activities.
By others.
I’ve told my boy that he belongs to no group. I’ve told him that he will have friends and there will be people who don’t care for him, for whatever reason. If people don’t like him or don’t accept him due to his appearance, then I’ve instructed him that it would be best to disregard those people.
I’ve taught my boy that he is himself and that he should not attempt to fit in with or belong to any group. The only groups worth associating with are those who accept us and like us for who we are in essence, not for how we look.
So far this approach seems to work very well for him.
And that is the basis of the rub in this argument. I don’t agree with that comment. You are saying that the perfect world I was talking about to TM on already exists, sorry, but that bubble needs bursting, it doesn’t. Hopefully it might in the future though I have my doubts.
If it existed, then why do we have religious and cultural conflicts, Protestant against Catholic, Muslim against the Hindu, Shi-ite againt the Sunni, Tutsi against the Hutu, racism against immigrant communities, plus all the other shit that goes on. What about the Fijians attitudes over the Indians in there country that are Fijian by birth etc.[/quote]
We have these problems because it’s easier for some/most people to categorize themselves and then stick with it out of laziness.
The world isn’t perfect, but it is what it is. And if we choose to stop placing race and culture in front of our own common humanity, then I guess reason dictates those conflicts would start falling away because there would be little to base them on.[quote]
I’ve told my boy that he belongs to no group. I’ve told him that he will have friends and there will be people who don’t care for him, for whatever reason. If people don’t like him or don’t accept him due to his appearance, then I’ve instructed him that it would be best to disregard those people.
I’ve taught my boy that he is himself and that he should not attempt to fit in with or belong to any group. The only groups worth associating with are those who accept us and like us for who we are in essence, not for how we look.
So far this approach seems to work very well for him.[/quote]
Seems that we have more in common than music.
I raise my son to be free of all sorts of human imposed slavery. I hope it takes.
[quote=“jdsmith”][quote]I’ve told my boy that he belongs to no group. I’ve told him that he will have friends and there will be people who don’t care for him, for whatever reason. If people don’t like him or don’t accept him due to his appearance, then I’ve instructed him that it would be best to disregard those people.
I’ve taught my boy that he is himself and that he should not attempt to fit in with or belong to any group. The only groups worth associating with are those who accept us and like us for who we are in essence, not for how we look.
So far this approach seems to work very well for him.[/quote]
Seems that we have more in common than music.
I raise my son to be free of all sorts of human imposed slavery. I hope it takes.[/quote]
What’s so bad about being a member of a group? It may seem hip to be opposed to group membership, but isn’t it an important part of the human experience for most people, that helps give one a sense of identity, support, friendship and camraderie? I greatly enjoyed being on various athletic teams when I was growing up and I believe you did, too, TM. Some people enjoy being part of a flock in church, or singing in a choir, or joining a hiking club or an investing club, or being a deadhead or a part of an online community, and so forth.
Sure, it’s important for a person to be critical of others, to develop ones own personal values and interests and not blindly go along with the herd, but isn’t it also valuable to learn to examine different groups, find those with which one shares commonalities and those with which one doesn’t, and to join up with those we like, for the many benefits to be gained from group membership?
Why is it slavery to find people with whom one shares common interests and goals and spend good times together?
Playing basketball with a group and “being Chinese” or "being Buddhist"are not really the same thing are they?
Sooner or later in every group a group mentality that is less than the sum of its parts arises. That’s why. When responsibility has been taken from the individual and given over to the “group” the pressure to obey the group increases, despite what individual thoughts you might have that run contrary to the group’s.
I’m not good in groups. Maybe you are. MOre power to you. 
[quote=“Tigerman”]I’ve told my boy that he belongs to no group. I’ve told him that he will have friends and there will be people who don’t care for him, for whatever reason. If people don’t like him or don’t accept him due to his appearance, then I’ve instructed him that it would be best to disregard those people.
I’ve taught my boy that he is himself and that he should not attempt to fit in with or belong to any group. The only groups worth associating with are those who accept us and like us for who we are in essence, not for how we look.
So far this approach seems to work very well for him.[/quote]
[quote=“jdsmith”]Seems that we have more in common than music.
I raise my son to be free of all sorts of human imposed slavery. I hope it takes.[/quote]
There’s nothing inherently wrong with being a member of a group (except for what jdsmith pointed out above). As I posted above, however, the only groups worth associating with are those who accept us and like us for who we are in essence, not for how we look. If a group rejects us based on our appearance, then its proper, IMO, to say piss off to that group and to not fall in to some sort of identity crisis because we don’t fit in with or belong to that group. That’s the origin, IMO, of the identity crisis. You want to fit in but they reject you (or you reject something about them).
[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Sure, it’s important for a person to be critical of others, to develop ones own personal values and interests and not blindly go along with the herd, but isn’t it also valuable to learn to examine different groups, find those with which one shares commonalities and those with which one doesn’t, and to join up with those we like, for the many benefits to be gained from group membership?
Why is it slavery to find people with whom one shares common interests and goals and spend good times together?[/quote]
So long as those common interests are not based on appearance, I have absolutely no problem with anyone examining different groups to find those with which one shares commonalities and those with which one doesn’t, and joining up with those they like, for the many benefits to be gained from group membership.
Or religion…
Playing basketball with a group and “being Chinese” or "being Buddhist"are not really the same thing are they? [/quote]
No, basketball and buddhism are choices. Being Chinese is genetic.
True. Being part of a group often leads people to engage in stupid behavior that they might not have otherwise engaged in if they were not subject to the pressure and influences of others. And I agree that’s a downside of groups. But a healthy individual will take all the positive benefits that he/she can from the group experience, while trying to maintain his/her own individual moral compass, values and interests, and will either stand up to the group, ignore them, or walk away when the group strays too far.
You seem to do fine on forumosa.
Back to the subject, apparently you guys feel that a child brought to the US from Asia and raised in a white/black family has no reasonable connection to Asia, he/she is essentially “born again” in the US, and there’s no reason for that person to find comfort, friendship, support camraderie, commonalities with Asian persons, language and culture, or to feel such things help provide him/her with a reassuring explanation for part of the answer of who he/she is. Such a group, you apparently feel, is silly, unnecessary and, worse – racist.
Is it racist for people to celebrate St Patrick’s Day in the US? Or Octoberfest? Is it racist for a Chinese-American to eat Chinese food in the US, or to practice tai-chi, or to refer to himself as Chinese-American? Must he enjoy nothing but baseball, hotdogs and apple pie from the day he arrives in the country? What if he is intrigued by his Chinese ancestry and it brings him peace, pride and satisfaction to explore that? Is that so strange, or wrong? Do you really believe most such kids wouldn’t have an interest in where their ancestors came from?
And when that “group” is the “group” one’s adopted parents belong to, what then?
Not everyone is strong enough to stand against the masses.
It is almost a sink or swim scenario, we’re going to raise you as an unhyphenated American, and if America is not ready to accept you, then f.u. US…sounds like a someone is going to have a rude awakening during their adolescent years.
Everytime a young teen has a serious identity issue, a porn star is born.
No, every time a young teen has a serious identity issue, a fan of Good Charlotte is born.
And jdsmith, i don’t agree that playing basketball in a group is really that different from being buddhist or chinese: it’s just that most cultures consider one more important than the others. It’s not always like that. For example, any two members of the three-peat Chicago Bulls are probably closer to each other for being members of the same team than members of the same race (presuming they were both members of the same race).
And your family that you’re raising your child in is a kind of group too, and I presume you do pretty well there.
Well, the adoptive patents shouldn’t, IMO, “belong” to any group. That’s how I feel. Nobody should “belong” to any group. We can freely associate with different groups… but, as jd opined, we should not allow ourselves to become “slaves” of any group.
I don’t “belong” to any group. I associate with several different groups, however. My identity is not tied in with any particular group. I’ve always been that way and its always worked reasonably well for me. So far it seems to work spectacularly for my boy, who will turn 15 yo in a few days. He has attended Taiwanese schools, a Christian American school in Taiwan… and he has Taiwanese friends and American friends… there are some people who don’t like him, and a few people that he doesn’t much care for… That’s OK.
Misery loves company.
But that’s just silly. America does accept everyone. Sure, some individuals in America are bigots, or just plain ignorant. But I’ve never expected to be accepted and or loved by everybody. A close fe friends and some good groups with which to associate and I am fine. Fuck those who don’t like or accept me. Why should I (or my boy) (or anyone) care about them?
Yes. Pretty much.
Probably not.
Certainly not. I am bored to tears by baseball and I started studying Daoism when I was 12 yo. I do love hot dogs and apple pie, however.
If he/she is intrigued, then I would encourage him to explore. However, I cringe at the thought of such exploration bringing peace, pride and satisfaction.
I don’t think its strange. But I am troubled by the notion that anyone’s racial identity would bring them peace, pride and or satisfaction.
I don’t know. But, I believe that our collective emphasis on group identity does fuel such interest. I believe our energies could be better spent elsewhere.