[quote="?SyntaxError"]
hobbled his way on crutches to the corner shop outside of the hospital that he was staying in (after having surgery on a broken leg nonetheless) drinking a Mr. Brown coffee when some arseholes decided to have a go at him[/quote]
Certainly the guy must have bumped someone or something for that!
Strange I never recall all this foreign bashing going on until the young Canadian crowd started flooding into Taiwan.
Who are all of these people getting bashed up anyway? Missionaries, Engineers, teachers, tourists? It almost always seems to be teachers complaining about. Why is that??? Really, that’s a serious question.
So what are we saying now? That the South is dangerous…and that if you go to the pubs down there then you like to live dangerously? That’s what I’m reading…and if you like to live dangerously then don’t whine about it afterward if you get a beating…that’s all.
This is nothing new. Ten to fifteen years ago fights in Spin and Top were commonplace. Same deal, groups of Taiwanese beating the crap out of foreigners. Probably some sort of rite of passage.
Absolutely. A Taiwanese mate of mine from a few years back used to boast how he and his mates used to roll foreigners with good looking Chinese lasses as a yoof. He reckoned they really wanted to hit the girls but it was fairer to hit the blokes.
[quote=“naguoning”]WOW. See how much people write when you don’t look at Forumosa for a few hours.
I have a number of suggestions. Trapjaw you said:
“I’ve never seen anyone making out in broad daylight, in public”.
I suggest getting glasses or getting out more. I have seen it. Plenty of times. The most crazy thing I have ever seen in a pub (involved public nakedness with more than one person…) was in a pub in Kaohsiung by the way. Instigated by Taiwanese, not foreigners. Not everyone in Taiwan is as shocked by kissing as you might suggest. [/quote]
I was talking about DAYLIGHT mate, in a park/7-11/shopping mall. I have yet to see someone stripping and having sex in a park, in daytime, or sunbathing topless at the beach here. But I guess I’ll get my eyes tested as it clearly happens all the time.
Pubs are kinda different. Hey, I’ve also seen nudity, instigated by a Taiwanese, in a pub! Can we be friends now? I’ve also heard that there are bars here where ladies take their clothes off for money! And “special” KTVs where ladies offer “special” services. What about “special” barber shops?. Hmm, but doesn’t all that shit happen BEHIND closed doors?
Anyway I don’t see what your point is.
[quote] Trapjaw you also went on to say:
“As I said, I’m not justifying or excusing their behaviour - tryng to point out that they WANT an excuse to fight, and white guy grinding with Asian girl will obviously give them one. Sheesh. Do you agree or not? Will a white guy grinding with an Asian girl anger a racist thug or not?”.
Well it did sound rather like you and your fellow appologetics were justifying and excusing. Remember trebuchet DID say:
“After thinking about this, I wish I’d beaten him up myself. . People need to do more thinking about the kind of impression they ae creating of foreigners in Taiwan by their behavior. Grinding in public is unacceptable here.”
I agree a white guy grinding with an Asian girl will anger a racist thug. I also think a white guy sitting there doing nothing would also anger those guys. [/quote]
I’m not trebuchet. I’m not answering for anything he said. Jeez could you stop calling me an apologist? Once again, what do you propose to do about it? Go in there armed? Whip out your machete and hack up any Taiwanese guy who gives you a sideways glance?
Funny, you’d think if foreigners getting beaten up for doing absolutely nothing, in any part of town, at any time of day, is as hugely prevalent as you suggest, I would have met at least one person here who it has happened to. you’d also think ther would be warnings all over the internet not to live in Kaohsiung.
You’d think tere would be a lot more posts on Forumosa, connectkaohsiung, etc about “white person gets put in hospital by Taiwanese for doing absolutely nothing!” “white man f**ked up by Taiwanese thugs for buying a Hell Kitty pen from 7-11”.
[quote]Trapjaw you went on to say:
“naguoning, would you grind with an Asian (looking) girl in a club/area that is known for Taiwanese-on-foreigner violence? Do you think that it’s a good idea? Would you go to some town/city/area of Taiwan that you’ve never been to and know nothing about, and do it in a club there?”.
Well I dare say the guy from Jinmen probably did not know it was an area known for Taiwanese on foriegner violence. [/quote]
Yeah, pretty unfortunate huh? Just like tourists who walk around SA with cameras a wallets dangling out, but I guess you missed that point. Question still stands, would YOU go to a part of Taiwan that you’ve never been to, know nothing about and grind with some Asian girl in a Taiwanese dance club?
[quote]I think Huang Guang Chen summed up my attitude perfectly by saying
“You lot can be wogs as long as you like, where I live is my home. I am not a guest, I live here and don;t see the need to creep around apologising cos I like stinky cheese or sex.” [/quote]
I didn’t say creep around, nor did I suggest apologising. So furthering that attitude, you’re gonna just do whatever the fk you feel like, whenever the fk you want, because after all, it’s YOUR home (not anyone else’s home, just YOURS) so no need to consider how other people percieve you, or how your own actions will affect them. F*(*k them, after all? It’s THEIR customs that are stupid. I don’t need to repsect them!
Funny how many people actually do have this attitude. Which I’m sure certainly helps to disprove rumours that foreigners are assholes.
Durin’s bane summed it up pretty nicely when he said that you should always be aware of your action and surroundings. That’s ALL I’m SAYING.
Don’t live in fear, don’t apologise (I don’t know why you keep saying that, I’ve never suggested it) but DON’T do things that are outside of the realm of common sense either. And if you do, don’t complain when trouble finds you.
[quote] For the record I am not a Taiwan citizen but I am a permanent residence holder. Games the point of Syntax Error (clearly a point too difficult for you to grasp) was that South Taiwan has a problem with violence against foreigners.
In bars or when on the street drinking coffee it does not mattter. It is wrong. If allowed to go unchecked it will get worse. We can then expect incidence of violence agains foreign guys on the street drinking coffee to become more common place. Games you said
“Now Taiwan is hardly a perfect place. But it is not all that bad either.” [/quote]
I’m sorry that your own experience here has involved so much violence. But you know what? That’s YOUR experience. In MY OWN and MY FRIENDS’ and ACQUAINTANCES’ experiences, I have NOT experienced, nor have they, being threatened, attacked, provoked or anything like that by Taiwanese people. And I’ve been to plenty bars here. I’ve also been to plenty of coffee shops too. Maybe if I had lived out in the boonies, my experience would have been different. In case you didn’t notice, I said Kaohsiung CITY seemed pretty safe.
As I said, my own EXPERIENCE, coupled with friends and acquaintances experience, has not involved random violence against foriegners. How do you propose I go about getting media attention to the problem then? It sounds like this incident has already been in the media anyway. So what should I do? Get my friends together, beat each other up, then call the papers and tell them some Taiwanese guys did it to us, and moan about the blatant and massive epidemic of violence against foreigners in Kaohsiung?
[quote] Games you said to Syntax Error:
“How comes (sic) you then moved just there of all places”.
He did not just move here… He has been here for more than a decade. He also has permanent residence. I doubt he should leave or put up with uncalled for violence. The best comment I have read in this thread would have to be from tyc00n who said:
“Accepting this kind of shit just encourages more of it … being apologetic and striving to be more “culturally sensitive” is just pandering to local Xenophobia and making it more difficult for the rest of us in the long run”.
[/quote]
Once again, what are you going to do about it? Your suggestion that a lot of media attention might get the police to actually do something is a good one, but again, how often does this shit happen and how much media attention can you bring to one case? Some people beat up their children all the time here too. There’s plenty of media attention to that problem, but it doesn’t seem like the police or government are doing a helluva lot about it. And aside from that suggestion, what CAN you do about it? Go and beat up Taiwanese guys in clubs just to show them that we foreigners don’t stand for this shit?
[quote]
For games’s question: “how bad is it in Gaoxiong actually?”. As a foreigner who has been here quite a while and travels between the South and Taibei about once every 2 weeks, I must say it is clearly MUCH more dangerous in the South. I virtually never hear such stories in Taibei. I hear them often in the South. Yes, it is true bars are more dangerous than 7-11 or parks in the day time… But clearly Kaohsiung does have a real problem with violence against foreigners. It does not have to be that way. Life in Taibei proves this.[/quote]
Well I guess I’ll just go out packin’ my 9, next time I walk da streets o’
dis ghetto, Kaohsiung city, where da pimpz an’ crack dealerz be waiting to cap me round every corner. i mean, with this pandemic violence against foreigners, I’m sure to get fked up next time I leave my house. I’d better tell all my friends too, since they’re just as blissfully ignorant as me: Taiwanese men hate you! They WILL gang up on you and beat you with scooter locks if you so much as walk down the street in Kaohsiung! And don’t EVER go out to bars in Kaohsiung because YOU will get fed up by Taiwanese guys who are ticked off by you doing, well, nothing.
naguoning, i’m sorry to hear that your experience in Kaohsiung has involved random violence. But you know what? Mine hasn’t . Neither has the lives of countless friends and acquaintances i’ve met here. Outside of road rage, I’ve seen no random violence, and the two or three times I’ve heard about it it’s been in bars, all involving some drunk foreigner groping a Taiwanese guy’s girlfriend or the like.
Of course there are random attacks in Taiwan against innocent foreigners in Taiwan. There are also foreigners who act like assholes and bring it upon themselves (no, I’m not referring to the unfortunate grinding guy).
Hell, it happens in EVERY country in the world. But here, if this was happening to a MAJORITY of people, don’t you think there’d be warnings everywhere about not coming to Taiwan? A lot more poeple complaining about random violence? That i’d know at least one person here who has been a victim of a random attack? Just because it happened to you or your friend, doesn’t mean it’s happened to 99% of the foreigners here.
Our experiences are obviously quite different. If you think that makes me ignorant and an apologist, so be it.
I would have to say that Kaohsiung has gotten more “dangerous” during the past few years. Before it was drunken Brits (God bless them ) having a go at folks but now there seems to be more incidents involving locals.
I personally have never had any problems…perhaps that has to do with my sparkling personality and good looks.
On a side note and more related to the general increase of voilence in Kaohsiung. My co-workers said there was a serious shooting at a major five star hotel on Wufu last night. I guess that means either Lee’s Hotel or Kingdom…
WTF are you talking about? Look, back home where I am from the neighborhood I lived in had 4 violent murders in a two month span. The places I have worked for had God knows how many violent events. Nightclubs in the West have brawls daily - on any given night. One of my co-workers was shot and killed in front of me. Man…I could go on with a countless number of situations but I’d be looked upon as flexing.
Would you guys please stop acting as if Taiwan is the ghetto? Live in fear and you’re going to be one miserable bastard.
The only difference that I can say Taiwan has with back home is the fact that shit disappears quite quickly. It’s covered up and forgotten pretty darn fast. Warp speed actually.
Like I said in another thread : The difference between the justice system back home as apposed to here is simple - We seek justice through action and not words. Our Police are Gung-Ho. Our people don’t sit down and take it - we fight back. But here it seems like foreigners piss and moan then run scared. It makes me feel physically ill to realise what a bunch of pussies some of you are.
If you can avoid it…don’t fight. If you have to run…run. Shit, if you have to dummy one of the bastards and run for the hills…just do it. But don’t sit there and hide. Stick up for yourself and make sure you find friends here that don’t tuck tail and leave you behind–trust me–I know this feeling quite well*
I made the mistake of befriending a bunch of smooth talkin, shit disturbin wannabes who were out to conserve themselves and nothin else. My bad.
Back in Canada I had guys try and fight me for dancing…about 4 or 5 times that I can think of. I’ve had guys throw beer bottles and ashtrays at my head while dancing as well. Unfortunately for them I was on a first name basis with all the security…and most of the wanna be gangsters in the bar. The wanna be gangsters loved me because there was always someone wanting to fight me…and that gave them an excuse to fight that person. Oh, and I saw a guy get shot about 15 feet away from me.
In Taiwan by comparison…I’ve maybe seen one fight…and I tend to stay away from the bars and dance clubs…because I didn’t like the “vibe” I got from them. Seems like I made the right choice from what most of you are saying.
[quote=“Mordeth”]Back in Canada I had guys try and fight me for dancing…about 4 or 5 times that I can think of. I’ve had guys throw beer bottles and ashtrays at my head while dancing as well. Unfortunately for them I was on a first name basis with all the security…and most of the wanna be gangsters in the bar. The wanna be gangsters loved me because there was always someone wanting to fight me…and that gave them an excuse to fight that person. Oh, and I saw a guy get shot about 15 feet away from me.
In Taiwan by comparison…I’ve maybe seen one fight…and I tend to stay away from the bars and dance clubs…because I didn’t like the “vibe” I got from them. Seems like I made the right choice from what most of you are saying.[/quote]
Now compare home to SA or The UK. Cape Town? Durban? Hastings? London in general? Belfast? Edinburgh? Or how about places in the States? Hmmm…point is simple: we all come from some fucked up places and yet some seem petrified here. Doesn’t make much sense to me but it does go to show you how some of you lived back home where you were sheltered.
[quote=“Durins Bane”]I would have to say that Kaohsiung has gotten more “dangerous” during the past few years. Before it was drunken Brits (God bless them ) having a go at folks but now there seems to be more incidents involving locals.
I personally have never had any problems…perhaps that has to do with my sparkling personality and good looks.[/quote]
Or because you can’t ever get any girls to dance with you…
Uhh, yeah, not like now…
And finally, just so’s the little fella doesn’t feel left out…
What is the point of talking about how bad it is ‘back home?’ How does that have any bearing on the racism situation here?
Person A. “It’s really hot today.”
Person B. “Well in Canada its much much hotter.”
Person A. “Errr. Great for Canada.”
Person A. “I like cheese.”
Person B. “Shut up fool. In Canada we have a gazillion types of cheese. Don’t talk to me about cheese, you non-Canadian cheese knower.”
Person A. “Gosh. I mustn’t like cheese after all.”
Jeez, maybe you’re just a really shitty dancer…[/quote]
Nope, they’d pick fights for the same reason guys here pick fights when you dance with a pretty girl…jealousy. If I danced badly they’d just laugh at me. Not get angry.
The reason why you see me spouting off about it is another simple fact of psycology – I regret alot of what I have done or seen – It’s really that simple. It’s rather disturbing actually.
So the next time you compare Taiwan on how violent it is…everyone of you should reflect back on what you’ve seen or done back home. We come from a very agressive culture (most of us). The shit we are capable of still blows my mind. Don’t piss and moan…every fighter has nerves too. Anyone that tells you that he isn’t scared innitially is full of crap. But to run scared or walk through life with fear is pathetic.
God, I just slogged through all 16 pages of this thread and I wish i could have those minutes of my life back. Besides the first page, it seems like another silly argument about whether the attacks are racially motivated or if he was asking for it by being so bold to grind with a girl in a club. Maybe it’s just me, but it seems to me if this was a black guy who got stomped for being with a white girl in some cracker bar in the US many of you wouldn’t be so brash to say he had it coming. Any updates on how the case is going?
I think the argument about avoiding those places is kind of a moot point when you’re from out of town and just going out for a night of boozin and grinding like this guy was. I’ve been to a lot of those bars like Pig and Whistle, DNA, Pig Pen etc and never had a problem and no one ever gave me any warnings either. I have seen a few fights in Taipei and had some friends get beaten up pretty bad for doing absolutely nothing. One friend got smacked in the back of the head with a bottle, one got beaten down after apologizing to a guy for bumping into him, and the last incident my friend and I were in a club, four guys stepped up to us and told us we were “nerds,” we high tailed it, I escaped and my friend caught a seriously ass kicking in the middle of Hoping East road while a crowd gathered to watch the show - spent three days in the hospital with a broken collar bone. All of these incidents happened a few years ago and I’ve never seen anything like this since, but they all involved knuckle dragging foreigners full of drink and testosterone. Nothing ever happened to these assholes and the cops were totally useless.
I don’t think the issue is racism as much as the cops putting enough energy into the case to take their thumbs out of their rectums so they can switch hands. Ignorant violent rednecks are ignorant violent rednecks, but I don’t think some basic law and order is too much to ask.
I might. What about the opposite of your example. How many of us white guys would feel comfortable going into an all black club and then grinding with a black girl up on a speaker or something?
OK, I wanted another opinion on this matter…so I just yelled up to my roommate “Hey C, would you grind with a black girl in an all black club?” His response “You mean suicide? No, I don’t want to die anytime soon.” I then told him about the guy in Kaoshiung…and he just said “What a fucking idiot.” So then I pretended I was as stupid as some of the people on this thread by saying “So you think he deserved it?”, his reply “Of course he didn’t deserve it, but he’s still an idiot.”
In America if someone white went to an all black club…and was grinding with a black girl…and got his ass kicked. We’d probably all be like “What was the idiot doing that for?”…so why are we any less surprised when it happens here?
) having a go at folks but now there seems to be more incidents involving locals.
) having a go at folks but now there seems to be more incidents involving locals.