You mean if I would head to some bar I know next to nothing about in a foreign country, especially after reports of foreigners beaten up at bars?
Well, I probably would ask for a second bash just to see if it beats my common sense back into shape.
Apples - oranges - nice try.
You mean if I would head to some bar I know next to nothing about in a foreign country, especially after reports of foreigners beaten up there?
Well, I probably would ask for a second bash just to see if it beats my common sense back into shape.[/quote]
I see your point… and I guess we’d all better stay away from convenience stores, intersections, night markets, and parks. (By the way, all places where various people have personally told me they have been harassed or attacked.)
What you mean? That you go out in spite of terrorists lurking at every corner, BSE & SARS & Bird’s Flue all vying to kill you and Taiwanese youth gangs having turned the island into a civil war zone?
You crazy or what? :loco:
There are even guys with mango’s out there I was told.
Apples - oranges - snore 
Check the OP again once you find the time. It’s the thing about bars in case you have troubles finding it. Btw, did you read my post already?
On another note, yep … if you live in an area where you are constantly mugged at the grocery a sensible move would be to … move. Far away possibly.
That’s the situation in Gaoxiong right now? I won’t know … you are the civil war reporter after all. Or is that just your … how did you call that? … head trip? Real ghetto down there already, is it? Sounds like considering all the various people you report about. How comes you then moved just there of all places?
Personally I’d be most interested in the rumours about the Mango-Commandoes though. Are they as bad as Sandman claims?
That and of course what’s all so clever about heading to bars you know little about except that they are good places to be beaten up at.
[quote="?SyntaxError"]This has turned into another one of those typical Forumosa head trips. :loco:
It’s comical really. How on God’s green earth can some folk think that this could possibly be the fault of the guy that got his head smashed in. Maybe your opinions would differ slightly if it happened to someone you know, someone close to you, or worse you.
There has been a real serious problem with expats becoming the victims of violence in southern Taiwan for sometime.
There is a guy who got a bottle smashed over his head at the same place who was talking to his male friend at the bar and hadn’t been there for more than a few minutes. I guess he shouldn’t have talked so loudly, huh? Sheesh!
Or take my friend Dominic hobbled his way on crutches to the corner shop outside of the hospital that he was staying in (after having surgery on a broken leg nonetheless) drinking a Mr. Brown coffee when some arseholes decided to have a go at him… I guess he deserved it because he bought the can of coffee they wanted…
don’t mind me… continue with the humour… please do… it is really, very entertaining[/quote]
No shit. I think that too many of you guys are being a bunch of open minded pussies. I’ve seen plenty of local couples get it on and this is clearly a “lets bash the foreigner because my dick is too small situation”. Mordeth (and sidekicks), I have to disagree with you here. Accepting this kind of shit just encourages more of it… Unless this western guy was physically provoking a local then clearly he has the right to exist without having to get beaten up. It seems clearl that he never hurt anyone, he didn’t harass the girl, she was enjoying herself. So really, being apologetic and striving to be more “culturally sensitive” is just pandering to local Xenophobia and making it more difficult for the rest of us in the long run.
What you mean? [/quote]
What I mean is that given the number of foreigners (and the amount of time they spend) in bars in Kaohsiung, I don’t think the number of them getting beat up is enough to frighten me into staying out of any place.
And I have been attacked by locals in Kaohsiung, with knives, for being in a place that I know was a little dodgey. My friend got his face cut by this fuckwit and then he came at me. I managed to get hold of both his wrists and give him a push, then his friend punched me in the back of the head. I turned around and beat on this guy. Then the cops came and were going to charge me with assault. The knife guy ended up having to pay my friend 20 000NT because the cops just didn’t want to fuck with the paperwork to charge him and that was the end.
I’d love to report that I had learned my lesson but I have been back to similar places since without incident.
I guess my point is that these people will not dictate where I can and can’t go. Ultimately I’d prefer to take a beating than have someone tell me which clubs I am allowed to enter.
I hear that same crap all the time here from open-minded multi-kulti pussies. “Boo-hoo-hoo it is all the xenophobic locals, our immigrants did do nothing out of turn, ever.”
Which is probably true in most cases. Does not help a thing though if a segment of your minority is already associated with a certain image.
You try to distance yourself from the “multi-kulti-sensitivity” whackos tyc00n? You sound like the very first to argue “oh, but not all of them are bad, we just got to have more understanding for our poor immigrants. Group-hug.” First blabber some how tough you are not giving into this “cultural sensitivity” crap … then do a 180 degree turn demanding exactly that “cultural sensivity” from the locals when dealing with immigrants?
Good luck then on your side of reality. 
What you mean? [/quote]
What I mean is that given the number of foreigners (and the amount of time they spend) in bars in Kaohsiung, I don’t think the number of them getting beat up is enough to frighten me into staying out of any place.
And I have been attacked by locals in Kaohsiung, with knives, for being in a place that I know was a little dodgey. My friend got his face cut by this fuckwit and then he came at me. I managed to get hold of both his wrists and give him a push, then his friend punched me in the back of the head. I turned around and beat on this guy. Then the cops came and were going to charge me with assault. The knife guy ended up having to pay my friend 20 000NT because the cops just didn’t want to fuck with the paperwork to charge him and that was the end.
I’d love to report that I had learned my lesson but I have been back to similar places since without incident.
I guess my point is that these people will not dictate where I can and can’t go. Ultimately I’d prefer to take a beating than have someone tell me which clubs I am allowed to enter.[/quote]
:bravo: 
:bravo:
Okay, I’ll give you that.
But what about all the other things which I get promised on a regular basis will kill me any time. You know … terrorists, SARS, BSE, guys with mangos, muggers at the grocery store?
Okay, I’ll give you that.
But what about all the other things which I get promised on a regular basis will kill me any time. You know … terrorists, SARS, BSE, guys with mangos, muggers at the grocery store?[/quote]
(Not my quote but I agree with it)
Point is people shouldn’t walk around in fear. If it’s your day then it’s going to happen anyway. Now or later it’s going to happen. Chin up and chest out. Remember that all bullies smell fear which include those intellectual types who like to push people around. Don’t back down from anyone unless it’s absolutely necessary.
(Unfortunately I don’t have an off switch once my fuse is lit)
Now jest and syntaxerror asides … how bad is it in Gaoxiong actually?
Foreigner hunts or just plain old “people got beaten up in a bar … again.”
[quote=“games”]Now jest and syntaxerror asides … how bad is it in Gaoxiong actually?
Foreigner hunts or just plain old “people got beaten up in a bar … again.”[/quote]
Everyone has their own perspective, and here’s mine.
I have lived in and around Kaohsiung for almost eight years. The incident I mentioned earlier is the only time I have seen a fight here. This happened in Xiaogang, down by the airport. I used to go out quite often but have slowed the pace since having a child. I don’t think it is all that bad. Usually when I go into a place I will mingle with the locals and they are generally very friendly.
[quote=“navillus”][quote=“games”]Now jest and syntaxerror asides … how bad is it in Gaoxiong actually?
Foreigner hunts or just plain old “people got beaten up in a bar … again.”[/quote]
Everyone has their own perspective, and here’s mine.
I have lived in and around Kaohsiung for almost eight years. The incident I mentioned earlier is the only time I have seen a fight here. This happened in Xiaogang, down by the airport. I used to go out quite often but have slowed the pace since having a child. I don’t think it is all that bad. Usually when I go into a place I will mingle with the locals and they are generally very friendly.[/quote]
I’ve lived here for two years, and I haven’t felt in danger or threatened, and the only time I have felt uncomortable was in Dreams, so I left pretty quickly. The stories I’ve heard about involving fights with locals VS foreigners down here have been at Dreams, The Pig and Whistle and once at DNA. All of them are the types of places which I’ve been to once, and never gone back.
I haven’t heard of foriegners being beaten up for no reason in the street here, or outside convenience stores, or whatever. Kaohsiung City seems to me to be fairly safe. The only fights I’ve witnessed in the streets here have been local VS local, all road rage incidents.
I’d take that with a grain of salt. Chances are if a local scraps someone people say “A thug, bad enough …” but when a foreigner then does too it goes on like “… but we for sure don’t need some foreigners to add to it!”
In most places the attitude prevails “the immigrant adapts to us … not the other way round”. Even Europe comes to terms with this slowly again, abandoning its “we locals are just too xenophobic” stances.
What bar was this exactly? Us who live in Tainan need to know to avoid!
WOW. See how much people write when you don’t look at Forumosa for a few hours.
I have a number of suggestions. Trapjaw you said:
“I’ve never seen anyone making out in broad daylight, in public”.
I suggest getting glasses or getting out more. I have seen it. Plenty of times. The most crazy thing I have ever seen in a pub (involved public nakedness with more than one person…) was in a pub in Kaohsiung by the way. Instigated by Taiwanese, not foreigners. Not everyone in Taiwan is as shocked by kissing as you might suggest.
Trapjaw you also went on to say:
“As I said, I’m not justifying or excusing their behaviour - tryng to point out that they WANT an excuse to fight, and white guy grinding with Asian girl will obviously give them one. Sheesh. Do you agree or not? Will a white guy grinding with an Asian girl anger a racist thug or not?”.
Well it did sound rather like you and your fellow appologetics were justifying and excusing. Remember trebuchet DID say:
“After thinking about this, I wish I’d beaten him up myself. . People need to do more thinking about the kind of impression they ae creating of foreigners in Taiwan by their behavior. Grinding in public is unacceptable here.”
I agree a white guy grinding with an Asian girl will anger a racist thug. I also think a white guy sitting there doing nothing would also anger those guys.
Trapjaw you went on to say:
“naguoning, would you grind with an Asian (looking) girl in a club/area that is known for Taiwanese-on-foreigner violence? Do you think that it’s a good idea? Would you go to some town/city/area of Taiwan that you’ve never been to and know nothing about, and do it in a club there?”.
Well I dare say the guy from Jinmen probably did not know it was an area known for Taiwanese on foriegner violence. I think Huang Guang Chen summed up my attitude perfectly by saying
“You lot can be wogs as long as you like, where I live is my home. I am not a guest, I live here and don;t see the need to creep around apologising cos I like stinky cheese or sex.”
For the record I am not a Taiwan citizen but I am a permanent residence holder. Games the point of Syntax Error (clearly a point too difficult for you to grasp) was that South Taiwan has a problem with violence against foreigners.
In bars or when on the street drinking coffee it does not mattter. It is wrong. If allowed to go unchecked it will get worse. We can then expect incidence of violence agains foreign guys on the street drinking coffee to become more common place. Games you said
“Now Taiwan is hardly a perfect place. But it is not all that bad either.”
Well how about a wildly radical suggestion for you, Morodeth, Trapjaw, Games etc. Yes, it is not perfect. And it CAN get better. If we try to force change it can get better. Getting media attention to the problem would be a good way to get the police forced into action. Taiwanese police are not exactly known for their will to get of their backsides when they don’t have to, but if truely forced to they can and will change things.
Games you said to Syntax Error:
“How comes (sic) you then moved just there of all places”.
He did not just move here… He has been here for more than a decade. He also has permanent residence. I doubt he should leave or put up with uncalled for violence. The best comment I have read in this thread would have to be from tyc00n who said:
“Accepting this kind of shit just encourages more of it … being apologetic and striving to be more “culturally sensitive” is just pandering to local Xenophobia and making it more difficult for the rest of us in the long run”.
For games’s question: “how bad is it in Gaoxiong actually?”. As a foreigner who has been here quite a while and travels between the South and Taibei about once every 2 weeks, I must say it is clearly MUCH more dangerous in the South. I virtually never hear such stories in Taibei. I hear them often in the South. Yes, it is true bars are more dangerous than 7-11 or parks in the day time… But clearly Kaohsiung does have a real problem with violence against foreigners. It does not have to be that way. Life in Taibei proves this.
Kaohsiung is an industrial town and the economic situation in Taiwan has been very sketchy for quite some time, and as a result, people here are feeling the effects of that first hand.
If you are struggling to make ends meet and some foreigner strolls into town who is obviously making more than you are, it’ll probably annoy you. If you later see that same guy grinding on a girl that you’ve been fancying all night, it’ll probably put you over the edge. If you think about it… It kind of tells you where some people are at in their lives. When they go out and see a white guy grinding on some cute girl, and they couldn’t even talk to her, it’s just too much… So what are they gonna do?
Seriously… racism does exist in Taiwan… as it does all over the world. If it makes you feel better to deny it, then go right ahead… I won’t stop you. Anyone, including any of us, could become the next victim of this ignorance.
I definitely agree that Taiwanese people are mostly a very kind and friendly people, and that the actions of a few idiots don’t speak for the whole, but the number of violent attacks on foreigners has been steadily increasing here in Kaohsiung over the past few years, and I’ve been hearing of quite a few people who fallen victim to this same sort of B.S.
For years it has been contained to a few pubs, discos to which the foreigners would quickly get wise to and promptly avoid going to, but now the problem seems to be spreading.
The media isn’t helping by publishing/airing stories with titles like “foreigners only interested in sex”, must have a massive effect on people. (seeing as your average working class Joe in Kaohsiung reads the Apple Daily regularly and believes it as if it were the bible and all)
Is there anything that can be done about the situation? I doubt it. It’s not really up to the foreign community, is it?
Don’t forget that violence / crime rate in general has been going up quite a bit over the last couple of years. You never heard of cops getting killed in street shoot-outs.
That’s not the real money divide, it’s more like peasants squabbling over the refuse. The Taiwanese bosses are making oodles more. He’s got his wife, his flame, her mate and a few houses around the traps, including the one in southern China where he houses his mini-harem. How does your average dirty dancin’ farang measure up to that?
HG