American man beaten to pulp at Kaohsiung pub

Discussion Open Forum
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41

I feel the clubs in Taiwan are bad form and trouble. Most Taiwanese just go there to show off and wow betides anyone who gets in their way. Plus many gansters hate foriegners and they llok for for them in clubs to get their retribution.

I know this because my Taiwanese wife is from Yulin and I am related to some low life gansters. (most Gansteres in Taiwan are from Yulin or Chounghua, Chaiyi area,)

One of my good buddies was jumped in a bar in Tainan and nearly killed. He was dragged out by about 12 guys- dragged around a corner and nearly beaten to death. He luckily escaped their grasp and ran yelling in the street. He was left with a fractured sinus and two month headache. Many clubs in Taiwan are like playing Russian roulette.

Anyway morale of the story get drunk at home or at a shitty little restaurant. Trust me you’ll have better luck with the ladies in broad daylight on the street than in the bar.

42

[quote=“trebuchet”]After thinking about this, I wish I’d beaten him up myself. . People need to do more thinking about the kind of impression they ae creating of foreigners in Taiwan by their behavior. Grinding in public is unacceptable here.

I don’t care that the girl is ABC and his good friend/girlfriend. They should have given some thought to what they looked like to others. I hope she accepts some of the blame for what she helped cause to happen to him. She’s a foreigner too, she needs to accept responsibility for the impressions of foreigners she helps create, even if she has the luxury of hiding behind an Asian face.[/quote]

Could you tell me what else is unaceptable here please, cos I’d hate to get beaten shitless for, you know, buying a mango in Wellcome or something like that.
Isn’t it sad that you wish pain on people for being culturally unaware? “He is wearing his bathroom slippers in the lounge. Lets Fudge him up propper.”

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[quote=“TomHill”][quote=“trebuchet”]After thinking about this, I wish I’d beaten him up myself. . People need to do more thinking about the kind of impression they ae creating of foreigners in Taiwan by their behavior. Grinding in public is unacceptable here.

I don’t care that the girl is ABC and his good friend/girlfriend. They should have given some thought to what they looked like to others. I hope she accepts some of the blame for what she helped cause to happen to him. She’s a foreigner too, she needs to accept responsibility for the impressions of foreigners she helps create, even if she has the luxury of hiding behind an Asian face.[/quote]

Could you tell me what else is unaceptable here please, cos I’d hate to get beaten shitless for, you know, buying a mango in Wellcome or something like that.
Isn’t it sad that you wish pain on people for being culturally unaware? “He is wearing his bathroom slippers in the lounge. Lets Fudge him up propper.”[/quote]

Well obviously trebutchet went a bit overboard in his post. But the point still remains. By a white guy grinding with an Asian (looking) girl in front of all the Asian guys…as if to say “Hey, look! I’m going to banging one of your women later!” …this maybe isn’t the best approach at making friends with the gangster locals.

And although he might deserve a slap in the back of the head…and a “What the fuck are you doing?”…he sure didn’t deserve a beating. Expected a beating? Maybe, but deserve…no.

When I first moved here 8 years ago…and I was still very new to the island…and knew nothing of the local culture (or lack of)…I still had the common sense not to behave this way in public with an Asian woman.

44

Why the f*ck is grinding with a girl a racist statement?
Haven’t you for one moment considered that the ‘gangsters’ were the ones in the wrong? They were the racists, they were the ones who viewed the girl as ‘one of ours,’ surely?
A night club is a place where people go to dance.

45

Damn, Chief! Always been a big Clash fan, I mean I must have realised once, but given a pub quiz I don’t think I would have linked that tune with the other Staggers. Weird!

And chicks that dress like hos deserve a jolly rogering?

HG

46

[quote=“Mordeth”]

Well obviously trebutchet went a bit overboard in his post. But the point still remains. By a white guy grinding with an Asian (looking) girl in front of all the Asian guys…as if to say “Hey, look! I’m going to banging one of your women later!” …this maybe isn’t the best approach at making friends with the gangster locals.

And although he might deserve a slap in the back of the head…and a “What the fuck are you doing?”…he sure didn’t deserve a beating. Expected a beating? Maybe, but deserve…no.

When I first moved here 8 years ago…and I was still very new to the island…and knew nothing of the local culture (or lack of)…I still had the common sense not to behave this way in public with an Asian woman.[/quote]

TomHill, I never said the grinding was racist…but by Asian culture it is “rude” and causes “loss of face” to the locals. Try going to Pakistan…and grinding with one of their women…see what happens :laughing: :laughing: .

47

I don’t care too much for that turn of phrase. Many of us here are married to people from other cultures, and I doubt they consider themselves as thieves. MrsHill is from Taiwan, and apart from the chicken claws at the table, I say Big Friggin Deal!

48

I don’t care too much for that turn of phrase. Many of us here are married to people from other cultures, and I doubt they consider themselves as thieves. MrsHill is from Taiwan, and apart from the chicken claws at the table, I say Big Friggin Deal![/quote]

It doesn’t matter whether you care for it or not…they do. And if you someone is getting beaten down in an alley…they aren’t going to be able to argue politically correct word usage.

49

[quote=“Mordeth”][quote=“Mordeth”]

Well obviously trebutchet went a bit overboard in his post. But the point still remains. By a white guy grinding with an Asian (looking) girl in front of all the Asian guys…as if to say “Hey, look! I’m going to banging one of your women later!” …this maybe isn’t the best approach at making friends with the gangster locals.

And although he might deserve a slap in the back of the head…and a “What the fuck are you doing?”…he sure didn’t deserve a beating. Expected a beating? Maybe, but deserve…no.

When I first moved here 8 years ago…and I was still very new to the island…and knew nothing of the local culture (or lack of)…I still had the common sense not to behave this way in public with an Asian woman.[/quote]

TomHill, I never said the grinding was racist…but by Asian culture it is “rude” and causes “loss of face” to the locals. Try going to Pakistan…and grinding with one of their women…see what happens :laughing: :laughing: .[/quote]

Absolutely. I’m sure nobody here believes even remotely that the thugs had the right to beat this guy, or that what they did was right or justified. Obviously from a rational point of view it was brutal, vicious behavious which should not be tolerated in a civilised society.

BUT as Mordeth said, common sense, and/or being “street smart”/“streetwise”/“culturally aware” would prevent more of these kind of things from happening.

Thugs, drug users and gangster types DO tend to hang out it loud dance clubs. Grinding with a woman who looks like a local, whether she is your friend/girlfriend or not, is going to invite trouble. Gangsters/thug types who enjoy fighting are NOT rational people. They certainly don’t give a shit about anyone’s rights, and if they get the slightest excuse to give someone a beat-down, of course they’re going to. It’s unfortunate, but that’s the way it is. Would you make out with your wife/girlfriend in a public park back home? Maybe. Would you do it here? Of course not. Because it’s considered quite culturally offensive.

If you want to do it to make a statement against the culture, or as some form of protest, that’s a different story. But then you would obviously accept any kind of backlash resulting from your actions, right?

What would you say if some Asian tourist wearing his “punk” tee shirt with a Ku Klux Klan logo (he doesn’t have a clue what it really means) gets a beat down after walking into a black bar? Probably something along the lines of, “I feel really bad that the guy got beaten up, and of course he didn’t deserve it, but maybe he should have done a bit of research before walking into a black bar with a KKK tee shirt”.

Same thing back home in South Africa with foreign tourists who go walking around with their cameras dangling off their necks, and fat cash-stuffed wallets hanging out their pockets, and then get mugged. Of course they don’t deserve to get mugged - nobody does. It’s not at all justified - but it certainly is preventable - if you do a bit of research, travellers to South Africa are advised NOT to walk around with jewelry/cameras/cellhones/wallets showing, especially in big cities.

I think the point people are trying to make is NOT that the beating was justified, but that it was certainly PREVENTABLE.

50

Maybe 15 or 20 years ago it was considered so. I live close to a large public park where I walk my dogs and I see plenty of making out going on nightly on the park benches. The passers-by just ignore it. No one bats an eye.

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[quote=“Rotalsnart”][quote=“trapjaw”]
Would you make out with your wife/girlfriend in a public park back home? Maybe. Would you do it here? Of course not. Because it’s considered quite culturally offensive.
[/quote]

Maybe 15 or 20 years ago it was considered so. I live close to a large public park where I walk my dogs and I see plenty of making out going on nightly on the park benches. The passers-by just ignore it. No one bats an eye.[/quote]

Clearly trapjaw has never been to the CKS or SCS memorial late at night about 10 - 15 years ago when you could barely walk around the fishponds w/out tripping over the couples in each nook.

52

The attitudes of some of the posters in this thread really do blow my brain cell. I thought Mordeth was one of the most stupid posters I have ever read the messages of here but with the likes or trebutchet and trapjaw, it seems like he or she is not alone.
HELLO! Dreams is a dance club. NO ONE would blink at two asian people dancing wildly there. I have been there. One time, when it first opened. I was with a lot of Taiwanese guys though. No one was openly doing lines of Ketamin or whatever else there when I was there. As I pointed out before other foreigners have been beaten up in that area without having danced with or spoken to any Asian woman. Face it. The thugs are just racist thugs who are being allowed to repeatedly run amok. It is not some cultural gap or whatever you appoligists try to excuse it as. Before you tell me I have no understanding of local culture I have spent more time in the Chinese world (mostly Taiwan, but also Singapore or China) than you Mordeth (based on your 8 years). If they were being locked up or beaten up in return they would not dare to try such things. It is that simple. Clubs do not have to be like this. It is all down to policing and security. I have a very good reason to want to go to pubs and clubs at times here. I import/sell DJ equipment. Extending the logic (if I can call it logic) of some posters here, if allowed to continue perhaps we can see the day when you are beaten up riding arround on a bike or scooter and you can put that down to the notion that a foreigner should not have been in that area at that time or taking up their road space. The foreigners in this story had commited no crime. The thugs have. They should be in trouble, not other foreigners blaming those foreigners for inciting the incident. Yes being streetwise in the sense that I would not go to that club without a big group of guys or at least several Asian looking guys will save me from trouble in Kaohsiung/Gaoxiong. But if I was living in Jinmen I could not be expected to know the situation of pubs in Kaohsiung. Please remember white people have been beaten outside that club, not just in it, but by customers of that club. It is just behind Sogo. Not an obscure part of the city. Preventable that people get beaten there. YES. When police start locking thugs up. Not when idiot foreigners make poor excuses and put the blame for these attacks on the victims.

53

Hmm guess my “making out” example was a bit off. I’ve never seen anyone making out in broad daylight, in public, here though.

Thanks man, I am going for the stupidest poster on this site award, glad I’ve got some support in my corner!

I’ve also been there by the way. No-one was openly doing drugs but there were a few people who were definitely high. I felt pretty uncomfortable there and drank a quick beer before leaving. I haven’t been back since. Of course no-one would blink an eye at two ASIAN people dancing wildly - but we’re talking about RACIST taiwanese thugs, who clearly don’t like FOREIGN guys, right? What’s your point? As I said, I’m not justifying or excusing their behaviour - tryng to point out that they WANT an excuse to fight, and white guy grinding with asian girl will obviously give them one. Sheesh. Do you agree or not? Will a white guy grinding with an Asian girl anger a racist thug or not?

Yes, it is. See the thread about gangsters and cops. I’m no apologist - where do you get the idea that I think that this kind of behaviour is acceptable? I’m not excusing it or saying that it’s at all acceptable (please read my post again if you think that’s what I was implying) just saying that THAT’S THE WAY IT IS HERE. In case you haven’t noticed, local cops will not try to do too much about gangsters or other thugs.

Once again, where did say that this kind of behaviour is OK or acceptable? Did I say that it should be tolerated and allowed to continue?

I’m not blaming the guy. Just saying that such things could be prevented. Very different, bud. Blaming would be placing the sole responsibility on this guy’s shoulders. I don’t think that anyone has said that. I certainly haven’t.

Same as my example with foreign tourists in SA. Coming from countries where it’s safe to walk around with a camera around your neck, how could they be expected to know the situation of crime in South Africa? :unamused:

As I said, I felt uncomfortable the one time that I was there, so I left. I’ve also heard about foreigners being beaten up around there. Which is why I won’t go there. And I don’t like dance clubs anyway (was dragged there by some friends).

And what are people to do until the cops start locking thugs up? Do you want to go and start a gang war? Foreigners VS Gangster thugs? What’s that going to achieve? Sure you can beat a few up, but they’re not gonna “learn their lesson” - they’re just gonna get more of their friends, armed with more dangerous weapons. With the way gangsters and police are connected here, and the general apathy and uselessness of most local fuzz here, I don’t think justice is going to be meted out to these types anytime soon. It’s not the victim’s FAULT. I still don’t get how you equate “preventable” with “blame”, but, whatever.

Please accept my apologies for offending you by virtue of my extreme and incredible stupidity. :unamused:

54

It is important that while living in Taiwan one is aware of where you are and what you are doing at all times.

55

Precisely, as it is when you are in any foreign country.

naguoning, would you grind with an Asian (looking) girl in a club/area that is known for Taiwanese-on-foreigner violence? Do you think that it’s a good idea? Would you go to some town/city/area of Taiwan that you’ve never been to and know nothing about, and do it in a club there?

In a perfect world, we’d all have the freedom to have fun, and do what we wanted without the fear of our rights being violated. Unfortunately, this is very, very far from being a perfect world.

56

Precisely, as it is when you are in any foreign country.

… this is very, very far from being a perfect world.[/quote]

Amen to that.

57

Good post trapjaw, and thanks for posting a “counter post” to nanguoning’s attack. Saves me the trouble…and I doubt I could have said it any better.

58

One way to see it. But I dislike this whole multi-kulti schtick.

As little as I like Muslims prance around in Europe claiming their way to live should be adopted there too just because they moved in, I have no, I repeat: -NO- problem with them treating their women like cattle back home. It is their world there, and they can fuck it up any way they please. One of my reasons why I do NOT seek employment in Pakistan, Sudan or the entire Mid East whatsoever.

Translated to the issue at hand though … public affection is a touchy issue in Taiwan? More so when minorities are involved? More so when alcohol and sleazy bars are involved? Boo-hoo, what a surprise.

Well, personally I have very little problem with dealing with that EXACTLY the way I tell Muslims off in Europe: “Can’t stand it here? Paddle back home then.”

Now Taiwan is hardly a perfect place. But it is not all that bad either. And prancing around expecting or even better outright demanding “oh … I want the bar scene and people there all be like at home … you know, relaxed and friendly and save (sure as if :unamused: ) and a bit more liberal” sounds rather foolish to me. Hoping to be accepted as a minority and not being picked on? Nice theory, try again after your next reincarnation.

Fess it up … you moved to a prudish, hickish, pent-up and on occasion violent area in which you are in the minority - now deal with it. You do not have to like it and you can whine about it of course … but once that is done, what do you do?

In that regard Mordeth has contributed a lot more of useful advice than many of his critics.

The thing with the cricket bats though also had its charm. The charm of an Arab youth gang in a French suburb. :sunglasses:

59

This has turned into another one of those typical Forumosa head trips. :loco:

It’s comical really. How on God’s green earth can some folk think that this could possibly be the fault of the guy that got his head smashed in. Maybe your opinions would differ slightly if it happened to someone you know, someone close to you, or worse you.

There has been a real serious problem with expats becoming the victims of violence in southern Taiwan for sometime.

There is a guy who got a bottle smashed over his head at the same place who was talking to his male friend at the bar and hadn’t been there for more than a few minutes. I guess he shouldn’t have talked so loudly, huh? Sheesh!

Or take my friend Dominic hobbled his way on crutches to the corner shop outside of the hospital that he was staying in (after having surgery on a broken leg nonetheless) drinking a Mr. Brown coffee when some arseholes decided to have a go at him… I guess he deserved it because he bought the can of coffee they wanted…

don’t mind me… continue with the humour… please do… it is really, very entertaining

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[quote=“Huang Guang Chen”][quote]Durins Bane wrote:
It is important that while living in Taiwan one is aware of where you are and what you are doing at all times.

Precisely, as it is when you are in any foreign country. [/quote]

You lot can be wogs as long as you like, where I live is my home. I am not a guest, I live here and don;t see the need to creep around apologising cos I like stinky cheese or sex.

HG[/quote]That’s right HGC. And when you’ve got a few drinks in and perhaps a local lass instigates a little grinding, local thugs may be the furthest thing from your mind.

I figure there’s more of a chance I’ll bite it on a scooter than get my ass kicked in a club but I still have to get on it every day. You can’t just stay home in fear.