Angry White Americans = Serious Terrorist Threat

Politics US Politics
41

All right. What is the point of this thread in your view MT?

And if you like, please do try to answer the following:

  1. Do women have rights? Should they be protected? Which societies do this best? Which are worst?

  2. If the type of violence that you are talking about unique to this particular group? How would it compare with the often overtly racist violence that takes place in inner cities but is confined to Black or Latino gangs?

  3. Is the type of violence that you have described condoned or encouraged by the US, any government agency, or praised and encouraged by any Christian churches?

  4. According to federal crime statistics, 96 percent of violence against Blacks is committed by other Blacks while around half of violence against whites is committed by Blacks. These figures are available on the U.S. Dept of Justice web site.

So I guess I am still struggling with your usual message that threads such as these should not be started because they are hateful, divisive and racist. I struggle to understand how someone who claims to have certain principles so regularly flouts them. I would have to assume therefore that your “principles” are in fact merely multi-culti cover for the hatred you have for Whites, Americans, Christians and Men, who ironically have done far more to protect the marginalized groups that you claim to care about than the very groups who are supposedly suffering at their hands. Ironic isn’t it?

42

You still haven’t answered my questions regarding whether this thread is racist, if so why, and if it is any more or less racist than all the claptrap that you post.

Until you answer those questions, I certainly won’t answer your questions that are intended to divert the discussion. Were my questions so difficult? Why don’t you give them your best shot.

43

Wannabe Fred,

My heart bleeds for those pork belly rich, woman rapin, injun killin, child molestin, nigger hangin, money grubbin, power hungry white men!

Boo fuckin hoo!
:raspberry:

44

Alien:

??? What are you hitting the bottle pretty hard tonight or something? I have nary a clue as to what you are talking about.

MT:

Fine. Have it your way. I very much doubted that you would make any attempt to answer any of these questions because you would find it impossible to balance your “principles” with the “realities.” Just for the record, I have no problem with you starting a thread like this. In fact, I encourage you to start more such threads since I rather enjoy the hypocritical spectacle. Onward!

45

racist thread. it is indeed fascinating how some racist threads are quickly floundered/locked while others are allowed to fester.

if this thread was about, for example, blood thirsty semites it would have been shuttered within an hour. we would have been told to be nice and that it was locked away for our own good.

have very few rules and enforce them ardently.

46

Skeptic, you’ve said twice now that this thread is racist. Could you please respond to my questions that I posted above in that regard. I would greatly appreciate hearing your response. Thanks. Fred was unable to answer the questions, but I have more confidence in you. For convenience, I’ll repeat those questions here:

What it is about this thread that you perceive as racist?

  • Was it my posting articles about members of neo-nazi and aryan nations type hate groups that brutalize people based on race, religion and sexual orientation?

  • Was it my questioning what is it about white, Christian US society that breeds such extremism?

  • If so, is such a question any more or less racist than all the threads pointing out the evils of Arab/muslim society and questioning what it is about Arab/muslim society that breeds such extremism?

  • Are the comments in this thread any more or less racist than comments such as the following:

47

MT…uhm didn’t we see this before a page or so back?

and still, MY quote is hardly racist:

shall I find that remedial reading link again for ya?

48

“Racism” is a much abused term. Essentially I think it’s maintaining that there are innate essential human differences between people of different races.

Merely focusing on one racial group and asking negative questions about it doesn’t cross that line.

49

[quote=“jdsmith”]MT…uhm didn’t we see this before a page or so back?
?[/quote]

We saw some of this page before, but neither you, Fred, nor skeptic yank has answered the questions. If people accuse the thread of being racist, I feel the above questions are very legitimate and good questions. Care to give a stab at them?

50

so everyone said this? Did I? Where? You here is singular is it not?

No, that was trolling IMHO as a backlash from the fear and muslims thread and you know it.

also trolling and somewhat ludicrous. Since when does the US EXPORT terrorism? And you answered that ANY civil violence in the US is terrorist in nature…then I pointed out not so subtly that your resource article for that statement that civil cases were declining because the US didn’t care about prosecuting them were unfounded as the numbers are quite small. (Why have YOU not rsponed to that post?)

IMO US extremism is an unwanted byproduct of democracy and free speech…not government sponsored terrorism which does actually occur in the ME countries we have been discussing.

[quote]

  • Are the comments in this thread any more or less racist than comments such as the following:

My quote. No. Not racist at all. Do you value women so little that you do not se this REALITY as wrong?

Possibly.

No. Not at all.

Anti-muslim? Maybe. Racist? No.

No.

Do yourself a favor, and us for (choose your) god’s sake. Stop reading what you want to see or seeing what you want to read and just read the damn words as they are written. You are consistant only in your inability to comprehend what is written and your ability to twist what is written to suit your agenda…which is?? What? To win? Win what?

51

MT:

I don’t care if you post this, and I know why you did. BUT given that you were the one that considered posting of such threads racist in the past, doing so now merely makes you look hypocritical.

So if you are trying to prove that White Christian men are equally responsible for terrorism though, I think that you have failed. I also think that your attempt to stop criticism of Islam and Muslim and Arab societies is misguided given that you have been very vocal about perceived loss of rights or discrimination in the West, primarily America.

If you are in fact concerned about women’s rights, then you must condemn Arab and Muslim societies even more harshly than you do the West and America.

So that is why I asked what the point of this thread is, was and will be.

I personally believe that you are trying to show that Western societies are morally equivalent to Islamic and Arabic ones and I think that is laughable. This is why I keep insisting that you define your position on women’s rights, children’s rights, human rights, gay rights, minority rights, religious freedom, political freedom, democracy because once you do, you will have outlined a moral position. When that takes place, how could you but not condemn Arab and Muslim societies. You understand that fully and that is why you will not answer my questions. I think that is cowardly, but not unexpected.

Do I consider this thread racist? Not if you were genuinely concerned about the problem, but in reality, this is just your feeble attempt to throw out a red herring to stop any discussion on the real and ongoing abuses that take place in Arab and Muslim societies. You do this for two reasons (my surmise):

  1. Your need to be “good” is defined by how much you stand up for and protect “marginalized” people. This is done most easily (with the least intellectual effort and with the least need for true courage) by attacking the West. I mean do you really fear that your views will get you jailed, tortured or deported? Of course not. It is cheap bravado. But would you go to a Muslim or Arab nation to espouse women’s rights, gay rights, etc.? Doubtful. That would have consequences and it would require a moral, intellectual and courageous effort. I doubt that you are up to that. You also get the benefit of being “better” than the Others (ironic isn’t that?) that you set up and define in one-dimensional terms as closet racists. That makes you enlightened, the Other takes on all the negative qualities of Intolerance, Ignorance and Cruelty that you are so desperate to define yourself against. BUT where in fact is that true Ignorance, Intolerance and Cruelty? Here on this board or in the Arab and Muslim world?

  2. You genuinely are a confused multi-culti who cannot reconcile your brainwashed views with the harsh realities that not all cultures are equal nor do they protect or even value the kinds of righs and principles that you claim to care about.

52

I don’t want to hijack the thread, but this is just in from the Jerusalem Post and clearly shows the low quality of life for women in certain muslim societies…:frowning:

MT: is this racist to post, or is it proof that the bad taste in my mouth over the treatment of Mulsim women in certain muslim societies is well founded?

jpost.com/servlet/Satellite? … 3186250438

Woman walking with fiance murdered

[quote]Although “honor killings” are
not
a new phenomenon in Palestinian society, the perpetrators were almost always relatives of the victims. But this is the first time that one of the Palestinian groups has openly acted against a woman suspected of “immoral behavior.” [/quote]

Now sir, I do not see this happening much in the US…alas, I’m near certain you’ll dig something up…sigh

[quote]According to eyewitness accounts, five masked gunmen who were in another car gave chase, opening fire at Azzami, who was sitting in the front seat next to her fiance. She died instantly. The incident took place at a busy intersection in Gaza City.

[b]What happened immediately afterwards left many passersby traumatized.

The assailants dragged the young woman’s body out of the car, pouncing upon it mercilessly with clubs and iron bars.

“It was the most horrific crime I’ve seen in my life,” said a university student who witnessed the attack. “What they did to the body while it was lying on the ground was barbaric. This does not represent Islam.”[/b] The student, who asked not to be named, said he and several other people at the scene were too afraid to interfere. “We waited until the gunmen left the area before we called the police and an ambulance,” he added.

The Palestinian Authority police, who have since arrested two suspects, confirmed that the attack was carried out by Hamas vigilantes who have been waging a campaign of intimidation against people exhibiting un-Islamic behavior.

“They are behaving like the Taliban in Afghanistan,” a senior police officer told the Post. “We won’t allow them to take the law into their own hands, because we are not in Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia or Iran.” Both Saudi Arabia and Iran have special
"vice and “virtue” police
who roam through parks and public places to upbraid and sometimes beat unrelated couples. [/quote]

How’s that for domestic terrorism?

53

MT does raise an important question though… However I’ve yet to see a white terrorist that do as much damage to their own such as the islamic terrorists who decide that they have the power to issue fatwa’s and other instructions to kill the infidels.

No wonder Islam suffers for the image as being the killer religion.

I live in Brunei for 2 years. I never needed a watch as I could listen to the call to prayer 5 times a days and know what time it was.

The people there are not fanatical but would always politely ask when I was going to become a muslim. They are just normal people leading normal lives much the same as us, just without bacon & egg sandwiches and Gin & tonics to stave off Malaria.

Sometimes at home I put on Q TV and listen to the call to prayer still. My wife doesnt like it much and it sure does scare the crap outta de nosy tourists on the weekends. Sometime I even put out my magic carpet and wash my hands and feet and start praying in the driveway. Spooks the shite outta the tourists who quickly move away in case I get the urge to behead them.

The sign on my house…

54

Everyone is aware of the problems in Islamic societies because news organizations in the west make sure that we are aware of them. What we are not aware of is how many Muslim people live out their lives peacefuly without causing harm to anyone. Nor do many of us seem to know about the threat posed to us by home grown terrorists. I don’t imagine MT condones the sexism or intolerance of Islamic countries. But he doesn’t have to to point out the problems in his own society.

55

It is not a question of whether anyone lives their lives peacefully or not. The question is a simple one.

Do you support women’s rights?
Do you support democracy?
Do you support literacy?
Do you support children’s education?
Do you support religious freedom?
Do you support gay rights?
Are you against terrorism?
Are you against violence?
Are you against intolerance?
Are you against oppression?
Are you against torture?

Now, take those answers to those questions and then measure various societies around the world, and see who comes up lacking? So while there may be bad people in the West and while there may be good people in the Muslim and Arab world, the issue is moot since we are measuring how the societies and their governments measure up overall. It is therefore not necessary for the West to be absolutely perfect to be better, nor is it necessary for Muslim and Arab societies to be absolutely imperfect to label them as bad or less good.

MT has appointed himself arbiter of all multi-culti understanding, tolerance and enlightenment. To continue to wear that mantle, he must root out racism and intolerance not where it exists in the most egregious forms, but in the West. Doing so enables him to define the Other in our midst, project all of these evil and bad qualities onto it and thus raise himself above it, making him a more superior person in the process. Objective standards used globally would considerably weaken that I imagine and this is why we never get around to discussing the overall quality but focus tendentially and tediously on “but NOT everyone” and “see here there is SOMEONE” kind of examples.

The simple fact remains that there is a problem in the Middle East today. Sticking your head into the sand like an ostrich may be very fulfilling and allow you to keep your enlightened view of yourself intact but it does nothing to solve the problem. This goes to the very foundation of the differences in opinion that raged regarding Bush’s military forays and democratic initiatives in that region. We are left wondering how can the left which is the screaming voice of outrage in Western societies against infractions real or imagined or most often considerably exaggerated remain so silent, so condoning of the far greater abuses that occur and pass for normalcy in so much of the Middle East?

56

Uhm Fred, they don’t actually do that.
:slight_smile:

57

OK so if we FIRST agree that the west is better at protecting individual rights THEN can we spend at least a little time looking at our own problems? I hope so because otherwise the ethical advantage you are so proud of will soon be lost. Prosecuting some of the higher ups in the Abu Grahib scandal would be a great place to start. Bastards.

58

I think this is a good way of putting it. I think most reasonable people would agree that (a) the West has plenty of its own problems, and (b) that the West should not become complacent to the point where its own problems fester and grow worse. As far as I can tell, everyone in this discussion agrees with (a). I bet most of them agree with (b) as well.

Here’s another way to look at your statement, bob – tell me if you think this is getting at your idea:

A doctor is looking at two patients, Patient A and Patient B. Patient A has some health problems (some minor infections and the like), but is still far healthier than Patient B, who is suffering from several serious diseases that are already at a very advanced stage.

Question: Can we say “Patient A is healthier than Patient B” and still maintain our commitment to helping Patient A as well as Patient B?

I think we can. We can talk about which should be our immediate priority, and how much of our attention should be devoted to each patient. But it would be a shame if we felt that we couldn’t discuss Patient B’s far more serious condition because of some bizarre notion that to do so would somehow be giving Patient A a 100% clean bill of health.

59

Good point Hobbes AND you should ADD that Patient B has a virulent infection that is capable of spreading disease and misery among many many other people. Let’s not forget that the problem with the Muslim and Arab world would probably get the backburner like Africa if they weren’t throwing it directly into our faces with such great regularity. While we can all pretend to be concerned about global problems, the fact is that the ones in the Middle East are a direct and real threat to all of us.

60

It’s the rampent umemployment and poverty that make people easily led away from normal thoughts. They hear there local leaders rag on about how foreigner are to blame for their ills instead of trying to clean up tere own problems.

This happens in all countries. The US is no different with the poor white trash syndrome. We also have immigrants who complain they were denied a place at a job or university beacuse of their race, instead of admitting tht perhaps they just don’t cut the mustard.

Abject poverty, unemployemnt, low education and lack of basic human rights is the problem that needs addressing. Once people start working and earning an income then they find less time to become extremists.

Brunie is a wealthy country with high unemployment. This leads to a grass roots class of poor people who look at the extremely wealthy with envy. There’s not really a middle class. You have money or you don’t.

IMHO.