Animals Taiwan's Anti-Trap Campaign

Life Pets & Domestic Animals
1

I heard on the radio the other day that Animals Taiwan was running an anti-trap campaign. At first I thought OK sounds reasonable, but later after riding past packs of wild dogs in the mountains and seeing a huge pack of over 30 dogs roaming the Neihu Technology Park, I started wondering if I shouldn’t be setting a few traps myself.

If you were living in the mountains and had a few free-range chickens or pens of pigs, you would probably be thinking of cheap and easy ways to protect your livestock.

Plus these packs of wild dogs, which seem to have exploded in numbers over the last couple of years, are definitely a hazard on the roads, from chasing bicycles, joggers and motorbikes to simply lying anywhere they fucking well please on the road creating a hazard for drivers.

Traps might not be so humane but at least they represent some measure of pest control. They are not laying traps for no reason. I don’t think they are hunting bears or boar.

2

I think it’s the nature of the traps that they find objectionable. Although since there is nowhere to put wild dogs once they’ve been caught, I guess they’re probably against any kind of traps.

3

Dogs like that should be trapped. But not with fucking gin traps. The very least they could do is live trap them and get the pound people to pick them up for euthanasia. But even that is far too much trouble for your average mouthbreathing hillbilly fucktard. If its HIS week to wear the family teeth he’ll goddammit set a few traps if he wants. Unlike live ones, you only need to check them once ever couple of weeks and hopefully the cur will have gnawed his foot off and escaped to die on some other ignorant hick’s land long before you get there to bash its brains in with a rock or stick.

4

Of course the traps are nastier than the preferred bullet, but since that isn’t an option what choice do the farmers have and what options are being provided them?

I think there is a mixture of soft headedness, laziness, and typical fuck up when it comes to the dogs issue. How hard can it be to shoot them?

5

Hard, as people don’t have a lot of access to hunting rifles or ammo.
But fuck-headedness is right – yer man in the woods is not going to give a fuck. So they ban gintraps. No problem. Warfarin and strychnine are still readily available in hardware shops. They’ll just poison the dogs instead. Still, it makes a nice convenient sop for the government drones to smile nicely at the news conference and promise action that will hopefully shut the do-gooders up for a while. I do hope Animals Taiwan thought of that and have a plan ready for the inevitable.

6

But the government does, surely.

You are right though. I remember when there were packs of dogs wondering down ChungHsiao East Rd. When I saw that huge pack in Neihu Tech. Park, I thought it won’t be long before they are back on Nanjing.

7

Word.

[quote]I started wondering if I shouldn’t be setting a few traps myself.[/quote]Really?

[quote]If you were living in the mountains and had a few free-range chickens or pens of pigs, you would probably be thinking of cheap and easy ways to protect your livestock. [/quote]True.

[quote]Plus these packs of wild dogs, which seem to have exploded in numbers over the last couple of years, are definitely a hazard on the roads, from chasing bicycles, joggers and motorbikes to simply lying anywhere they fucking well please on the road creating a hazard for drivers.[/quote]Also true.

[quote] They are not laying traps for no reason.[/quote]And also true. They are trapping dogs because there are too many of them as a result of people ignorance and selfishness and because it is coming around to bite them up the ass. It is a problem which brings us to your last question:

[quote]Of course the traps are nastier than the preferred bullet, but since that isn’t an option what choice do the farmers have and what options are being provided them?[/quote]A bullet at the right spot is preferable to a gin trap, no doubt. But to answer your question, there are alternative choices. There are no “good” options a lot of times, unfortunately, but there is better than gin traps.

One can call the dog catchers. I don’t know about Taipei county, but in Kaohsiung they are quite effective. If you can call it that. The bottom line is that they are good at catching dogs, and they do respond to phone complaints. In fact, that’s all they do.

Live traps are also available as loaners from the dog catcher’s shelters. One can use these traps to catch the animals without inflicting pain. Seems a bit easier to do than it is to bash a dog’s head with a shovel after it’s been caught by a gin trap… Or maybe the dogs should just be left there, broken limb and stuck in a trap attached to a fence post, a stump or a tree. Eventually the dog would just die and you could dispose of it then.

And of course, there’s CNR. I fully support a ban on traps, and moreover, I’d like to see the government moving forward and using its existing state of the art animal population control infrastructures to CNR animals as opposed to just killing them. It would be more humane, and far more effective by a long shot.

I know you come from a farming background down under, but I am nonetheless surprised to read your post, Fox. VERY surprised.

marboulette

8

As hard as it may be to believe, removing dogs from the street is the best way to increase their numbers. If you want to see an end to stray animals, you need to increase the percentage of unbreedable animals, lessen the food available, and prevent new ones being dumped. The catch-and-kill method (or even catch-shelter-rehome-or-kill method) actually causes artificial population explosions.

Fox, I’m disappointed you think that gin traps have any kind of purpose at all, let alone to be used on non-human animals who are already in an undesirable situation through no fault of their own.

9

I wasn’t aware of the livestock issue. I find it hard to believe these dogs are attacking pigs. Anyway, a proper fence should suffice, no? Free range chickens can still be fenced too, the term now loosely refers to chickens that are humanely raised or pasture-raised. The trapping methods here are not only inhumane, but short-sighted.

10

[quote=“Fox”]You are right though. I remember when there were packs of dogs wondering down Zhongxiao East Rd.[/quote]And now it’s not a problem. No gin traps were used.

Won’t someone think of all the poor pigs in the Neihu technology park?

11

Well we all have a different perspective. I set hundreds of them as a kid. Trapping was a hobby.

Curse me to hell, I suppose. On the other hand, my real interest in this debate is just to bring the topic to the fore. I don’t believe the farmers who set these traps are actually wrong headed or necessarily cruel just protective and likely frustrated.

If there are legitimate alternatives (I’m sure there are many) then let’s see them. I understand that sterilization programs could be successful. I also understand that farmers are not likely in a position to be conducting them. Without reasonable options, what choice do they have really?

Traps or poisoning are cheap and available. Pie in the sky they are not.

12

[quote=“Fox”] I understand that sterilization programs could be successful. I also understand that farmers are not likely in a position to be conducting them. Without reasonable options, what choice do they have really?[/quote]They could feed, and neuter their own dogs as a mean to keep their livestock safe. Most livestock farms in Taiwan can afford a few thousand NT to go about this the right way.

My farm wouldn’t have problems with strays “invasions.” I’ll tell you that much. :wink:

[quote]Traps or poisoning are cheap and available. Pie in the sky they are not.[/quote]The solutions are there. It just depends how you look at it…

marboulette

13

What did you trap? What kind of traps? What happened to all the animals? Where are you from? Again, is this really an issue? Not saying it isn’t, just haven’t heard anything about the livestock problem.

14

What did you trap? What kind of traps? What happened to all the animals? Where are you from? Again, is this really an issue? Not saying it isn’t, just haven’t heard anything about the livestock problem.[/quote]

Thems are good questions. What were you trapping with gin traps in Australia? Dingos? Possums? Maybe it was toads. :laughing:

marboulette

15

Well we all have a different perspective. I set hundreds of them as a kid. Trapping was a hobby.

Curse me to hell, I suppose. On the other hand, my real interest in this debate is just to bring the topic to the fore. I don’t believe the farmers who set these traps are actually wrong headed or necessarily cruel just protective and likely frustrated.

If there are legitimate alternatives (I’m sure there are many) then let’s see them. I understand that sterilization programs could be successful. I also understand that farmers are not likely in a position to be conducting them. Without reasonable options, what choice do they have really?

Traps or poisoning are cheap and available. Pie in the sky they are not.[/quote]

You were setting gin traps for a hobby? wow that is cruel in my opinion but that is subjective? I presume you were eating your snared maimed animals or using the fir? Don’t get me wrong I am no animal rights extremist and have hunted myself (i hunted for organic meat and used all the animal) and used home made neck snares to kill rabbits (instant neck breaking kill). I also used ferrets to hunt rabbits BUT Personally I think gin traps are sickening.

BTW I haven’t heard of a single case in Taiwan of pigs being attacked by roaming packs of wild dogs. Can you give me a source for these livestock attacks? However chickens do get attacked. That does not justify maiming dogs. There are alternatives ie like using dogs to protect chickens from dogs. Fences (I could protect chickens from foxes in UK, which are far more cunning). I saw a stray dog snared the other day, limping around with its foot in a snare trying to keep with his pack. I managed to catch it and with great difficulty opened the snare with a tool. These snares were being placed down by illegal farmers on riverside park the farmers have no right to farm in public parks and certainly not put down gin traps. Gin traps are sick machines of pest control and personally if I catch someone putting one down illegally in a public park they will get hurt.

16

Rabbits and foxes. When the animals were trapped we shot them or just broke their necks or they were dead already. They were pests.

The point I make is the traps have a purpose. Unlike in my case, I doubt they represent a hobby more likely they are to protect farms or keep animals out of certain areas. Dogs are smart; they soon workout where they can and can’t go and they are territorial so if you can keep them out of your patch, they are unlikely to comeback if they sense a threat.

They are in plague proportions in the mountains and on the streets around Neihu. Like I said I counted a pack of over 30 in Neihu Tech. Park. That’s just out of hand. I don’t think a sterilization program is required in Neihu Tech. Park just a concerted catch and cull effort.

I have no idea really whether dogs are presenting a problem for pig farmers but it is not hard to imagine.

17

So it was really just a hobby. Perhaps you were the pest.

18

Well we all have a different perspective. I set hundreds of them as a kid. Trapping was a hobby.

Curse me to hell, I suppose. On the other hand, my real interest in this debate is just to bring the topic to the fore. I don’t believe the farmers who set these traps are actually wrong headed or necessarily cruel just protective and likely frustrated.

If there are legitimate alternatives (I’m sure there are many) then let’s see them. I understand that sterilization programs could be successful. I also understand that farmers are not likely in a position to be conducting them. Without reasonable options, what choice do they have really?

Traps or poisoning are cheap and available. Pie in the sky they are not.[/quote]

Like Fox, I was also brought up in an area where trapping was not only acceptable, but a big part of life.
I am not familiar with the term “gin” trap, (must be a Commonwealth thing), but I think your refering to the leg traps, what we used to call #2 to #4 bear trap.
In Appalachia 40 years ago, most people hunted, trapped, fished, and also grew their own gardens. Simple matter of survival.
However, even in that kind of area, I remember a big push to stop using the leg traps because the animals would chew thier legs off. Most of the trappers that I knew did stop using them and switched to live and gripper traps (like a cage that surrounds their chest).

About the lack of guns here, When I was a kid, one of my favorite ways to hunt small game, was with a wrist rocket sling shot.
Would that be legal here?

AT guys, keep up your good work, but pjease remember not to go too hard on them. Education and good examples from you will go much further.

19

[quote=“Fox”]Rabbits and foxes. When the animals were trapped we shot them or just broke their necks or they were dead already. They were pests.

The point I make is the traps have a purpose. Unlike in my case, I doubt they represent a hobby more likely they are to protect farms or keep animals out of certain areas. Dogs are smart; they soon workout where they can and can’t go and they are territorial so if you can keep them out of your patch, they are unlikely to comeback if they sense a threat.

They are in plague proportions in the mountains and on the streets around Neihu. Like I said I counted a pack of over 30 in Neihu Tech. Park. That’s just out of hand. I don’t think a sterilization program is required in Neihu Tech. Park just a concerted catch and cull effort.

I have no idea really whether dogs are presenting a problem for pig farmers but it is not hard to imagine.[/quote]

There was a woman a while back who got badly savaged when protecting her young daughter from a pack of hungry dogs in Taipei county (no i don’t have source and can’t be bothered to find it lol but it happened). Taiwan stray dogs are not brave enough to take on pigs as they are not bull breeds or pig dogs, and pigs can fight well (sheep are rare in Taiwan). I agree something has to be done and i’d side with the dog catchers and massive clamp downs on pet shops advertising pups for sale in the window. Breeding should be restricted to so many dogs per family so the hobby breeders could continue but the puppy mills would be put out of action. There could be many ways to deal with this and these rusty traps that they never bother checking should be a last resort, I’d rather have a mass shooting campaign than that.

However which ever poster mentioned that poison would now be used is spot on, just like what they are doing to foxes now in the UK after the fox hunting ban, yes poisoning them. yep so dog walkers beware of the poison baits! Damn

20

I certainly was for the rabbits and foxes, but that’s just the way it was. It’s no worse than fishing. The goal was to catch them, kill them, sell the skins and eat the meat. I operated within the contract. The human-animal pact. If you don’t know what I mean, look it up or don’t eat meat.

However, that is a distraction. My point here is that the farmers are probably simply protecting their patch with the tools that are available. There is no point in maligning their means without providing a legitimate alternative.

BTW, the legitimate alternative to rabbit infestation you wouldn’t wish on your worst enemy. Believe me.