Well you are smart because there have been a number of long term residents who have left Taiwan for a holiday and then got refused re entry , for things such as court cases where they were not even found guilty. Basically you are correct that for self protection it is best to remain in the shadows so to speak. I doubt if 2000 came out to protest they would all be barred from reentry but I bet a few would be picked out and kicked out!
Crusher was Richard Hartzel. He lobbied. He got real changes. Rules that didn’t change he worked out detailed administrative appeal strategies replicable with his “form letter” appeals package. During his tenure, it only took a few weeks for a problem created by an arbitrary rule change to have an acceptable solution.
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oh that’s not me as can be seen by my awful writing skills , but I do remember that name as he did all sorts of great things for foreigners here. The kind of person that should have Taiwan ID.
These days you gets ROC nationality (without ID) first, then you have a year to renounce your existing citizenship (if you can), then wait a year or two for first-class ROC citizenship. However, you might still end up stateless if you commit a serious crime, or violate the “morals” clause, within 5 years. (This happened to some Vietnamese woman who committed adultery.)
Oh ok I stand corrected. That public morality law sounds interesting.
One wonders how many Taiwan nationals would be made stateless if these criteria were also applied to them.
Guy
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Guys I am seriously musing how to set up a foreign spouse support group. I am getting quite fed up with foreigners being vulnerable and their spouses dancing all over them. You guys insist we have rights and that if we let ourselves be ripped from home, family and belongings it is because we are fools. But I see it happen way too frequently and someone actually getting fair treatment a rarity.
I believe no one should come here without knowing their rights and obligations. I am also concerned at realizing that foreign spouses end up in the lower economic tiers, yes, even the ones from the West, as they cannot work on equal terms. They are often deceived on taxes and other key financial arrangements. Information wise, this is something we can get organized.
En guerra avisada no muere soldado.
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I think it would be fair enough to point out the issues on citizenship and divorce , children , in more detail . This should be highlighted more by foreign agencies in their advice details . Many who come here short term , may settle down and only then investigate the discrimination they may find in the future . One would hope that if the silly parts of immigration laws are highlighted , it may help the Legislators see .
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I hope you do it and if you do let me know how I can help. And obviously the answer has been a pretty much responding “no” about the spiritually weak part. Interesting and enlightening replies. I actually do want to be a part of this society I have kids here. I’m not going to up and run if China invade. Why do I have to be a second class citizen in a state of constant anxiety? Yeah, I complain about things here but I did in my country of origin too, doesnt mean I don’t like it or want to be a part. Well at least my kids can be members , I’ll guess I’ll have to stay as guest person, glad my kids won’t have to be the same. For me that is definitely more important and I’m lucky mine have grown up. At least if I ever lost my status as special guest person they would understand why, unlike if it happened to foreigners with young kids.
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Not true if your mom is Taiwanese and you were born before 1985
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We seem to be juggling several different categories of foreigner:
(1) All foreigners
(2) Western foreigners (whatever that means. Do Turks count? Do Latin@s?)
(3) And now, married…foreigners? Married Western foreigners?
as for this issue, there have been any taiwanese parents that brought it to court for their kids who aren’t given a nationality?
Added
I found their reasoning of the cutoff.
89年2月9日國籍法修正公布後固有國籍認定採父母雙系血統主義，僅溯及國籍法修正公布時之未成年人理由如下：
（一）法治國家重視人民權利之維護、法秩序之安定及信賴保護原則之遵守，故法律原則上不溯及既往，除為保障當事人權益俾其適用最有利之法律，始得制定例外溯及適用之特別規定。
（二）為保障未成年人身分權益，爰於國籍法第2條增訂第2項規定，使國籍法修正公布時之未成年人溯及適用得以母親血統認定具有中華民國國籍。故69年2月10日以後出生者，於國籍法修正公布時尚未成年，得認定具有我國國籍。
（三）至父為外國人，母為我國人者，於國籍法89年2月9日修正公布時已成年，如溯及使渠等具有我國國籍，恐影響其身分之安定性及因國籍身分變更衝擊相關權利義務，且屬上揭情形之人數無法估計，影響程度難以預估。
I’m too spiritually weak to get out of bed at 7am on a Monday.
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I think you are generalising a bit here now.
Why would the foreign spouse end up in worse economic tier after divorce ? I don’t see any reason why they can’t just continue working their current job
Furthermore, ALL foreign spouses I know are way above average local wages so even if they lost some of their assets they can recover
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This pretty much sums it up.
That and not wanting to stir anything up that would put our ARC / APRC status at risk. Why rock the boat when the waters are relatively calm?
Japanese are one of the biggest single white collar group in Taiwan . But they can get Taiwan citizenship without giving up Japanese citizenship because the Japanese govt doesn’t allow citizenship to renounce citizenship.
So then that leaves the other white collars.
Koreans …Don’t know about them.
White collars from Asia…Many are ethnic Chinese they may try ROC nationality route from ancestry or they studied here first.
Some portion of the remaining ‘westerners’ here are Taiwanese on foreign passports moving here or living on foreign nationality until going to college when older. . Not sure how big this portion is.
The number of true long term Western residents is smaller than all the foreign white collar numbers.
Still there’s enough to have more advocacy done. Forward Taiwan have done a pretty good job . It’s the dual citizenship rule that seems hard to change as too many racist legislators.
There have been multiple attempts to get it changed but legislators haven’t supported them. Religious and academics were bought off with the special foreigner scheme.
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But why?
What is their main reason for this?
Agreed. It’s not. Worse still, there’s a period of time between getting your Taiwan passport and forsaking your old one that you have NO citizenship. The idea sounds pretty terrifying to me!
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If you search on here you can find the ridiculous reasons they gave before…
The special foreigner thing got though with support from the ministry of foreign affairs I guess…Vatican relations?
Not after the divorce but during marriage. The delays in getting into the job market affect income severely.
After the divorce it is a given they will lose residence and business as they usually are under local spouse name.