Hey, don’t generalise. It’s not “all” teachers, just 90 percent or so.
But yes, the other points you mentioned are pretty spot on. There’s also the fact that most teachers dislike other teachers (because they, I mean we, are losers).[/quote]
Yeah there is a new term for that… it’s being called an all black.
Re: A large group of over indulged rugby-playing choker(s)from the southern Hemisphere, where they are preened and treated like Gods, only to discover that when confronted by opposition with a ‘game plan’ in Rugby World Cups that they are incapable of stepping up.
an insult meaning: to fail to perform under pressure, particularly in a sporting event.
to choke under pressure.
a choker.
loser.
[quote]Yeah there is a new term for that… it’s being called an all black.
Re: A large group of over indulged rugby-playing choker(s)from the southern Hemisphere, where they are preened and treated like Gods, only to discover that when confronted by opposition with a ‘game plan’ in Rugby World Cups that they are incapable of stepping up.
an insult meaning: to fail to perform under pressure, particularly in a sporting event.
to choke under pressure.
a choker.
loser.[/quote]
Off topic, and laid bare for all to see - not a pretty sight. The eternal hatred of the bad Australian for his good kiwi cousin to the east.
I don’t blame him - it’s just part of the convict marsupial DNA.
Anyway, freegayandhappy and K-666 guy, you have seen Sat TV revealed for what he is - a buxiban boss and a Kiwi hater. Ignore him. Ignore Sandman, too. He is not a teacher.
Although this attempt at a teacher’s association may be ill-fated and die an early death, from the ashes will arise a stronger one.
[quote=“almas john”]Off topic, and laid bare for all to see - not a pretty sight. The eternal hatred of the bad Australian for his good kiwi cousin to the east. I don’t blame him - it’s just part of the convict marsupial DNA.
Anyway, freegayandhappy and K-666 guy, you have seen Sat TV revealed for what he is - a buxiban boss and a Kiwi hater. Ignore him. Ignore Sandman, too. He is not a teacher.
Although this attempt at a teacher’s association may be ill-fated and die an early death, from the ashes will arise a stronger one.[/quote]
I love our kiwi brethren… world class workers thank god half of NZ moved to Australia to work their arses off in the booming economy there. Now they can support Robbie Deans and the new crusa… erh I meant Wallabies team in the next world cup. Maybe they have a chance of either a Kiwi coach or the All Blacks winning one way or the other.
Sandman isnt a teacher but they will need an Editor in Chief by the looks of their writings.
I hate being a boss Mr Almas John. Come pound me to pul over a few beers. This weekend up in Alishan will have nice weather.
They don’t “get it”…and by the looks of things…never will.
Who the Hell needs nor wants MORE red tape of any kind?
Sure as heck do NOT want to be even vaguely associated with anything this whiny in nature.
The bottom line is this “association” is being built on the “ideals” of a gutless wonder. Hasn’t the balls to go and speak directly to his boss. Instead wants some bogus base of “bargaining” power and “solidarity”…whhhhhaaaatever.
So what do you DO instead…kick out the people with REAL answers…cuz …well…you can’t handle the Truth…LOL
Gawd…they locked that Mormon thread…that at least is FUN
Ah you have finally outed yourself TVman, and your motives for opposing us so virulently - a school owner opposing the formation of a teachers association. Well, well, well. We could hardly expect anything different from you could we? Thanks for letting us all know. So you are quite happy to allow the school owners to have their own “union” or association, but are opposed to your workers having the same right? You think that if there IS an association for your teachers then the bosses should be allowed in to keep an eye on them and keep them in line. Gees - which part of the soviet union did you grow up in??? Hey I heard China is always looking for spies, maybe you can apply?
We must remember who the biggest advocates for non-organization and those teachers willing to organize. They are not even teachers. This discusiion seems to be between teachers and non-teachers. The non-teachers being the devil’s advocate against the teachers gathering together and posing the most fervent questions, demeaning the start of the organization, focusing on the union demands as opposed to the networking/teacher sharing part of what an organization can actually be/become.
Reflection and admission of the 200 plus posts, who first questioned? Who claims we are secret? Who was first to demean?
We must accumulate all adverse questions from all points of interest before answering.
We are small but we need help fielding these questions and defending ourselves against these corporate individuals as “teachers” as “workers” as “hourly wage earners”
I understand there is a side to take. Teachers side, Non-teachers side.
Then as scott summers convenientely expressed, we are nothing, we are not teachers, we must do what the opposition tells us to do.
I’m a school owner, and proud to be one. I’m also a teacher, and was one for 10 years here before I opened up my own school. I was considered an unreasonable sonofabitch by most of my previous bosses, because I bargained very hard for better contracts, but I always got what I wanted because I provided a great level of service to my schools.
This rambling nonsense about “conflict of interest” is such an unecessary pain in the ass! I didn’t create some secret agenda when I decided to open my own school. I want to make a lot of money, teach my students well, and provide a good job for my staff (both foreign and local). I provide a fair contract and a stable working environment, and treat my staff well. Yet I’m not allowed to share any of my experience because of a “conflict of interest”. Don’t lump me in with the fucktards that graduate from junior college with a degree in English and then open a school with daddy’s money. I’ve worked damn hard to create what I have, and don’t appreciate slander by association.
One thing you “association” folks need to know is that there is no functioning group for owners or managers of so-called foreign-run or hardcore buxibans. By law we are required to either join the local chamber of commerce or the local buxiban association. We joined the buxiban association, and for our yearly NT$5000 fee we are invited to bring our students to a yearly barbecue (which we need to pay for) and cheap banners that say we are accredited by the buxiban association. That’s it! We are truly on our own, except for when we happen to be friends with other long-timers and can share experiences over a beer.
Do you honestly think there are secret meetings of school managers who get together to smoke cigars and plan how to screw over teachers? Give me a break! School owners for the most part hate each other, and spend all their time spying on each other and trying to steal students.
Anyway, until you understand that there are both GOOD school owners and BAD teachers, you’ll just be a bunch of loudmouths understanding only half the story. Good luck to you though.
Thanks for reminding me about my old forum! I totally forgot! I haven’t been to a game since getting back to Taiwan. Gotta get there. Hopefully Sunday or Tuesday
Its really quite astonishing just how far out of the loop you are. Yet you want to set yourself up as some kind of enabler for newbies?
I urge any new or prospective teachers to look at these peoples’ posts and think very, very carefully about whether they want to entrust ANY aspect of their employment to these people.
Now you see, I am all for a proper teachers association that would help teachers. I mean all these teachers are after all adults who sometimes need to know where they stand legally with employers. I am not opposng the ideals of an assocaition jus the way you clowns are doing it. Refusing to answer questions… no platform to run on. No agenda to help teachers. All buffoonery so far.
The CLA does a pretty good job and it can legally enforce judgements as well as dish out penalties to rogue employers you see. So there is already one governmental organization that steps into disputes with real power.
Having another association needs to benefit the members it wants to have. I am afraid that as you aren’t even a legal entity and also that you are refusing to have the business owners involved that you will not succeed. How can you have an association go to an employer when you don’t even allow the owner to join. Rather daft really. How are you going to negotiate with the people that you refuse to let them participate in your association.
School management are there to ensure that the teachers perform the duties expected of them in a manner that fits the businesses needs. After all, thats the role of a business, to keep it’s employees up too speed so that the business is successful, grows and is able to keep paying their employees. A well managed school is not overlooking the teachers class by class.
As for China looking for spies… probably I would not make a good spy. I talk too much. Which part of the soviet union did I grow up in… the ones run by unions in Australia. No union no work thats sort of shit. Thanks god unions are not compulsory anymore. I was threatened by union members in the public service union for refusing to join. threats of non union members would not get pay rises and that sort of bullshit.
I hardly see the school owners forming their own associations. Too much bickering would go an and the aggravation is just not worth it. AS it is I run two businesses and spend a lot of time consulting to a major DTH broadcaster. I don’t have the time nor the inclination to be involved.
I will ask all my teachers to register with you. I have nothing against that. But what do you have to offer them?
[quote=“kwaz666”] We are small but we need help fielding these questions and defending ourselves against these corporate individuals as “teachers” as “workers” as “hourly wage earners”
I understand there is a side to take. Teachers side, Non-teachers side.
Then as scott summers convenientely expressed, we are nothing, we are not teachers, we must do what the opposition tells us to do. I tell you teachers. We are the opposition.[/quote]
With this mindset of the individual against the corporation how will you succeed except to build youselves into a bunch of blithering nutjobs.
There are no sides to take. You need to work out how to work together with both teachers and businesses otherwise your little class war will just lead to ruin.
Starting out claiming to be the opposition is just pure bollocks.
Read our messages, TVman. Read our FAQ’s on our website. Get a grip. Stop making yourself an ignorant ass. Bosses don’t have to be members of our association for us to negotiate with them. In fact, if we let bosses join our association it would be a sure fire way to ensure NO ordinary teachers join up! I wouldn’t. It would just be a bosses organisation. You complain about your buxiban organisation. Well, hello - AT LEAST YOU HAVE ONE! We teachers have had NOTHING until now. If you don’t like the bosses organisation you’ve got then get involved and go and change it to what you want to to be. Or start another one. Or has "learned helplesslness’ set in for good? Though it’s interesting what you say about the buxiban owners all hating each other and not talking - if that is really the case, imagine if we can unite the teachers and give them a representative voice… with the other party so divided I think teachers united will be able to achieve alot! But I suppose that’s what you’re really afraid of, right? The prospect of a united voice for teachers: now THAT is a worthy vision! And it’s the vision we are working towards.
[quote=“freegaynhappy”]Read our messages, TVman. Read our FAQ’s on our website. Get a grip. Stop making yourself an ignorant ass. Bosses don’t have to be members of our association for us to negotiate with them. In fact, if we let bosses join our association it would be a sure fire way to ensure NO ordinary teachers join up! I wouldn’t. It would just be a bosses organisation. You complain about your buxiban organisation. Well, hello - AT LEAST YOU HAVE ONE! We teachers have had NOTHING until now. If you don’t like the bosses organisation you’ve got then get involved and go and change it to what you want to to be. Or start another one. Or has "learned helplesslness’ set in for good? Though it’s interesting what you say about the buxiban owners all hating each other and not talking - if that is really the case, imagine if we can unite the teachers and give them a representative voice… with the other party so divided I think teachers united will be able to achieve alot! But I suppose that’s what you’re really afraid of, right? The prospect of a united voice for teachers: now THAT is a worthy vision! And it’s the vision we are working towards.[/quote]Actually, I thought Satellite TV’s two posts above were very fair and on-topic.
Regarding whether you should let owners/managers join I can see both sides. If you really wanted to be something like a union then I guess excluding bosses would make sense, though you’d incur all the aggro that unions usually generate. But if you just wanted to help teachers negotiate fair deals then I think it would be better to include all parties within the group.
But this is really by the by. The main problem at the moment is that you’re trying to jump before you can walk. You really have no idea of the nature of the situation. You seem to have no idea that quite a few buxiban owners (especially the foreign ones) have a very good appreciation of what it’s like to be a new teacher in Taiwan, and do their best to give teachers a fair deal. And you don’t seem very clued up about the legal side of things. Plus there’s the lack of knowledge about other associations/bodies, and the lack of language skills.
All this could have been fine. Nobody expects you to know everything on day one. You could have simply said: “We’re thinking of setting up some kind of teachers’ association. We’ll have informal chats about it at x place at y time, and everyone’s welcome.” But because you’re trying to make it sound official already, and you’re already excluding and alienating people who could really help you, you’ve got people’s backs up and you’re getting these critical–though mostly quite fair–responses.
We can’t read them. They’re hidden to non-members. Either post them here or continue to suffer the ignominy of being ridiculed for having NOTHING! to offer. Zilch. Nada.
I did notice, though, that you’re still stuck on just 7 members. Five, really, I suppose. Maybe you should have another of your secret meetings to get a lot done. Tell me, do you have a tree house yet? A tree house with a few dogeared ladies underwear catalogues is de rigeur for your kind of enterprise, after all. And a secret password before you let the rope ladder down.
To say nothing of the painfully obvious fact that you don’t even have any idea how to get your ideas across on a bulletin board IN YOUR OWN LANGUAGE to people who mostly share your cultural background to a certain degree.
I can only imagine how you’ll get on in a totally Chinese-speaking environment with people who REALLY view you with deep mistrust and suspicion.
What a complete and utter JOKE!
I wish it weren’t the summer break. If I had to go to class, it would stop me from reading this inane and endless babbling.
I am a strong supporter of organized labor. My father spent 2 terms as the president of the teacher’s association in British Columbia School District #68. I grew up around labour and community organizers. I believe foreign English teachers would benefit enormously from such an organization. I believe my forumosa friends like Sandman and TV are both wrong and ill-informed about the role that organized labour is already playing in improving the lives of foreign language teachers in Asia.
But you guys…you give ill-informed a new meaning. Honestly, have a look at the NAMBU foreign Teacher’s Caucus for the University Teacher’s Union nambufwc.org/branches/university-teachers-union/
This is what everyone’s going on about. When you can put up a website even remotely like this, I think it shut everyone up. Until then…well, stop bringing my name up. I’m not interested in your Yahoo club.
One of the strange things about underdeveloped economies is the way in which institutions that are extremely well-evolved in the West with tried, tested and established roots for organization get reinvented. People try and build - for example - an entire university from scratch, making up along the way what they think a university is. Such a method is problematic and generally produces something that doesn’t work so well. And it’s not because those involved have no access to these more well-established institutional forms. I’m not sure what it is that drives this kind of cognition but you find it all over what is collectively called the Third World.
I’ve given you e-mails, websites, and plenty of examples. Why don’t you contact these guys? Or other international unions? Otherwise, you just look like a bunch of young kids far away from home trying to kill some time and feel cool about it. Working people with real jobs and families don’t have time for this.
