Avengers: Infinity War Spoilers Discussion

Someone had to start the thread!

I enjoyed it. “Love” would be too strong, and I’ve got significant issues with it, but man, degree of difficulty here was impressive - they pulled together a mostly coherent movie with a huge cast. I don’t know if that’s been done before.

If you don’t know the Marvel movies, don’t see this one. The film relies a lot on knowing who the different characters are. If you liked the first Avengers, you’ll probably like this one; if you didn’t like the first Avengers, cool, but why are you even in the theater at this point?

Warning: here be spoilers.

Spoilers. Got it? No blurring stuff out.

It’s both sad and glorious that movies are recreating mythology for our modern age. These franchises with immense history are able to refer to things in ways movies may never have been able to do before. When Captain America appears behind the train? I loved it! I wanted to cheer! And part of me hated myself for loving it. (Similar to The Force Awakens, when the Millennium Falcon first appears.) Of course other films are deeper, more artistic, more creative, etc. etc., but the weight of history in these franchises gives them a new sort of resonance in pop culture. It’s like what Game of Thrones or Breaking Bad have been able to do on television - there’s something different in our response when we’ve had years and years with these characters.

The opening: I only saw Thor Ragnarok a few days ago, and … ugh. The prologue to Infinity War retroactively demolishes that (very enjoyable!) movie, like the death of Newt at the beginning of Alien 3 makes it sort of painful to rewatch Aliens. I hope we’re missing part of what happens. From what we see in the film, it looks like all the Asgardians have been killed (woo hoo, let’s start the film off with complete genocide!). However, there’s no sign of a dead Valkyrie or Waititi’s rock character, Korg. Later Thor says Thanos killed half his people - so maybe there’s a missing scene of half the Asgardian refugees getting away.

Pairings of characters generally good. Who knew that Rocky and Thor would go so well together?! Plus Winter Solider swinging Rocky around was fun, as was Captain America’s ultra-serious first-contact almost-ESL voice for “My name is Steve Rogers” in response to “I am Groot!”. Putting Spiderman with Iron Man works well, because generally I find Tony Stark too snarky to be enjoyable, yet he’s grounded by the surrogate son thing (ha, “Is this your ward?”) he’s got with Peter.

Making Thanos the central character: bold move. Worked surprisingly well. A great success, no, but I feared Thanos was going to be a huge let down in this film, and he wasn’t. Stark and Strange had an OK amount to do; Rogers and Natasha had almost nothing, but I assume that’s going to be balanced in the sequel, which will presumably have a smaller cast for most of its running time. I wish they’d done more with Gamora in earlier movies, because her character didn’t quite have the weight behind it for her scenes and death to mean much - which makes me wish even more that the first two Guardians films had done more with her, and less with Quill.

Romances totally fell flat. I forgot or missed Scarlet Witch / Vision being a thing, and ditto Natasha / Banner. At least I care about the latter two. The first pair haven’t been around long enough for me to develop any feelings for.

There’s the usual nonsense with power dynamics in any kind of comic book movie. “I can remake the universe with my mind … but I’ll just punch this guy instead.” And Black Widow, who after all is just a normal human, can hold her own against demi-gods.

Ending: Bucky disappeared into ash first, right? That was working for me. Then T’Challa disappeared, and somewhat annoyingly, my reaction was “Oh come on! I know there’s a Black Panther 2 coming!” And after his death the other ones didn’t mean anything to me. Tom Holland almost sold it with his scene in Stark’s arms, but it still didn’t quite work - because of course Spiderman 2 is coming. I assume all of those deaths will be undone, and the sequel will somehow be the end of the line for more of the core Avengers of Iron Man, Captain America, and Thor.

After the ending: Nick Fury’s “Mother F-” may have been the biggest laugh of the film for me - Jackson almost got an f-word in there! (Metatextual knowledge helped that scene, unlike the earlier death scenes.) Like most of the theater, I’d spent the credits googling “Infinity War post-credits scene”, so by the time we got around to the pager and the Captain Marvel logo, I knew what it was. Good set up for Brie Larson’s film next year, but I was worried to read that Captain Marvel is apparently more powerful than any of the heroes so far introduced?! Isn’t Thor already a little absurd?

So, sort of like the movie, that post is somewhat longer than it should have been.

It was pretty good value for money. It wasn’t on the same level as the brilliant Logan, but it was good family entertainment overall. I’d give it a 7/10.

GOOD:

Guardians of the galaxy and Thor scenes worked really well and got a few chuckles in the cinema.

You don’t need to be a fan or have seen the others to enjoy the movie. My girlfriend has never seen a single Avengers movie but she really enjoyed it. The plot is very simple at it’s core - man gets magic stones and wants to end the world, good guys wanna stop him etc. Not hard to follow.

Steve Rogers looking badass with a beard. Fresh take on a classic design.

Thanos really did come across as one strong mofo.

Nice to see Tom Holland as Spider-Man again as he really is the best one yet.

BAD:

Even with the world ending it never really seemed like any of the characters were really at threat of dying. Loki has been killed before so it’s pretty much a given he’ll come back. Thor didn’t even spend much time mourning him as even he knows he’ll come back.

Speaking of deaths… The end where they all disintegrated into dust was just… Lame. Marvel hasn’t got the balls to kill off big characters so we all know they’ll magically come back by the end of the next one. Seems a plot convenience to eliminate temporarily the lesser characters so the main plot can narrow down the focus onto Iron man, Thor and Captain America.

Hulk was pathetic. Just pathetic. He seemed to have become a poster boy for erectile dysfunction what with his inability to turn on his hulk mode on command. At one point he basically managed to become a semi hulk and then shrank back down to lame banner mode. Aren’t super heroes supposed to be, You know - super? Watching a middle aged man struggle to perform when it counts wasn’t entertainment.

The writing wasn’t great. Guardians had some funny one liners but it was flat for everybody else. Where was the witty chemistry Spider-Man and iron man had in homecoming?

The movie just kinda ended outta nowhere. Thanos seems to be in South East Asia on a nice beach just chilling.

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I suspect Loki is dead, but he’s died so many times before that the franchise has made it hard to believe. Heimdall’s death worked well, but maybe that’s because I only watched Ragnarok a few days ago. The main moment of jeopardy for me was when Thanos stabbed Iron Man - I went into the film expecting at least one of Stark / Thor / Rogers to die, so I thought there was a good chance that was the end of Iron Man. That relates to what was probably my favorite part of the ending: a lot of us expected Stark and Rogers to go - so the fact that they were left alive, defeated, and mourning the deaths of many, many others was its own kind of twist. I think both of those characters are totally prepared to die - but to survive defeat? It’ll shatter them. (And I assume their victory next year will someone involve one or both sacrificing the other.)

Between Thor Ragnarok and this film, I guess they’re trying to do more with Hulk’s character. But I agree it’s not quite working: Ragnarok ended with Banner fearing that he’d never be able to “un-Hulk” again, and indeed the way he fell on the rainbow bridge, seemed to die, and then turned into the Hulk, strongly suggested that was the end of Banner. Yet that was quickly rendered a non-issue in Infinity War. I took Hulk as scared after his defeat by Thanos (and maybe guilty after failing to save Thor and the Asgardians, and perhaps Valkyrie, who was after all a good friend?), and that’s why he’s not coming out.

I thought the Guardians & Thor stuff was well written; the Iron Man / Spidey / Dr. Strange stuff pretty good; and most of Earth-side rather dull. Mashing together Thor’s and the Guardians’ worlds worked well, but on Earth the meshing of the “New York” Avengers and Wakanda didn’t work. They created a fantastic new world in Black Panther, but that didn’t come through in this film at all, presumably because most of this and Black Panther were pretty much wrapped up around the same time.

Huge variation in the bad guys. Thanos better than I expected; the magic guy who kidnapped Dr. Strange was pretty good, with a lame sucked-into-space death that didn’t seem like it should have killed him; and the others were non-entities. Even though apparently one of them was Carrie Coon?! I hope she got a big chunk of coin for it, but wow, talk about wasting talents.

I enjoyed it, and agree with most of what was said above. But if Thanos could alter reality, why in hell didn’t he just create more food for everybody?

The whole ecological dimension is nonsense. More food means more babies, if not now then eventually. So Thanos had no business retiring after he “won.” The same problem is bound to emerge later.

Anyway, not every species is overpopulated, is it? Did Thanos kill half of the whales as well as humans? How does that work?

Thanos is just an evil Overlord and Not an Economist.

I liked the movie and found it to be entertaining. Thor/Rocket and the awesome facial hair Bros were the best parts imho.
Kudos for the whole dwarf scene.

Yeah! Talk about the world’s tallest midget!

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Because like every despot, he says one thing to sound idealistic, but secretly wants something else. Dude loves killing.

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I heard they are coming to Taiwan not true

Who? The Dwarfs?

That’s Ebony Maw.

The other bad guys were Black Dwarf, Corvus Glaive and Proxima Midnight. Considering all or most of them are dead, they probably won’t be given much of a backstory but some of them are pretty interesting.

I loved the movie. It’s the culmination of 10 years of work that both the movie makers and audience put into the series. Because of all the pre-planning, they can release what is basically a 2.5-hour-long action sequence.

I’m not exactly moved by the ending just because we know the nature of these movies… but then Spider-Man’s final few lines were almost upsetting. Made you realize he’s just a kid. Overall, though, I expected the end and figure it’ll be fixed in the next movie. It’d be interesting if they just left things they way they are but you know they won’t.

My only complaint would be some of the dialogue. The only parts I can think of is a few Tony Stark quips that were ‘meh’. I do like all his lines where he uses “wizards” but early on he made a couple of quips that didn’t land.

Thanos’s arc with him in a little hut is kind of cannon. He basically retires to be a farmer when he’s defeated (or when Adam Warlock took control of the gauntlet).

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Dang, son. I had no idea you were a comic book fanboy.

So A) what should we expect from Cap Marvel, & B) if even all of the Avengers (including Thor 2.0 with spankin’ weapon) couldn’t do it, how’s one extra body gonna defeat Thanos?

Chew on that.

P.S. I legitimately LOL’d at Sam Jackson’s final line. So close.

Quick note: this is the spoiler thread and my post contains a big spoiler for Infinity War.

The last line was very meta. Made me laugh. It’s the same joke they did with Aunt May at the end of Spider-Man: Homecoming but it still works - mainly because it’s Samuel L. Jackson.

Captain Marvel is ridiculously powerful. Probably more powerful than Thor.

I’m interested to know what they’re going to do with the Captain Marvel movie. I assume they’ll have a battle with the skrulls and then she’ll have to go underground for one or another reason. It’ll have to be something insanely important if the only thing that could bring her out of hiding is the annihilation of half the universe.

I don’t imagine they’re really worried about defeating Thanos. I think he’s retired from supervillainy. Though he probably doesn’t want them to undo what he did. The infinity gauntlet seems to be broken so they would have to get another from Peter Dinklage. Who knows what they can do with the gauntlet? Probably restore everything, since it supposedly allows you to control “everything.” Or maybe they just need time stone.

Rocket, Nebula, Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk and Black Widow are pretty much all that’s left. We haven’t seen Hawkeye or Ant-Man (like they’d make all the difference). Not much to work with but funny how it’s the core team from the original movie that remains.

It’s possible Adam Warlock will come into the mix. They teased him at the end of Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2. It may have just been for fun, but he’s a big part of the Infinity Gauntlet story.

Okay, all that sounds kind of fanboy-ish but I swear I’m just a casual fan. I’ve only been reading comics for a few years. After I had kids, I no longer had time to read novels. Plus, I’ve learned comics are fun.

I don’t think Adam Warlock will show up until Guardians 3 (which will be set after Infinity War).

The Captain Marvel movie will be set in the 1990s and will include Mar-Vell as well as shape-shifting Skrulls. I assume it involves the Kree-Skrull War coming to earth, and Mar-Vell developing a conscience / handing off his mantle to Carol, an Air Force officer (or perhaps SHIELD agent). Nick Fury is in it too, and there is potential for some of the characters from Ant-Man (like Pym or Foster) to show up too. Of course it has to end with Carol in space.

I assume that Avengers 4 will undo the deaths of Spider-Man, Black Panther, Dr. Strange, and most of the Guardians. Time travel has been suggested, perhaps by means of that magic cauldron Iron Man was leaning against. (We didn’t see Wong disappear, so he could help them.) Another possibility is that when Dr. Strange fought Thanos, he transferred them both to the mirror dimension, so the people who “died” were just mirror duplicates.

I would like to see Avengers 4 set in some kind of parallel universe, perhaps one ruled by the Squadron Supreme. (Ha! Take that, DC!) If they can get the rights to Kang, he would fit naturally with anything involving time travel or parallel timelines. The after-the-credits sequence should feature a big dance-off (and include Stan Lee, if he’s still ambulatory). Or else–if the Disney / Fox deal goes through fast enough–they should tease Galactus and the Silver Surfer, something like that.

My main question about Part II (or Part IV, or Infinity Gauntlet, or whatever it’s going to be called): will it pick up where this movie left off, or will reality be different? Did Thanos kill Bucky et al., or did he change reality such that they never existed?

One theory that’s out there (and almost none of these ideas are my own; they mainly come from different podcasts): this summer’s Ant Man and the Wasp will take place at about the same time as Infinity War, and the film will end when Thanos snaps his fingers. The two central characters will be in the “quantum realm”, which means they won’t be affected - and they’ll return to a changed reality, and they’ll be the only people who realize that it’s changed. (As well perhaps as Captain Marvel?) There are interviews with Evangeline Lilly out there saying that filming Avengers 4 has echoed some of the stuff she did in Lost, so that does suggest an altered / parallel reality.

To me, the parallel reality is more interesting than just two more hours of punching, but on the other hand, the movie also needs a resolution between Stark and Rogers.

I read somewhere - and as gaboman just wrote - that Captain Marvel is the most powerful by far, so yes, she could make a difference. But as I said in my first post, that worries me, because it’s already a little ridiculous that Hawkeye and Thor are in the same arena. Presumably Captain Marvel has been elsewhere in the universe over the last couple of decades.

I do wonder if Thanos telling Thor “You should have gone for the head” will come back and haunt him in some kind of replay of the battle of Wakanda.

On Stan Lee: I’ve heard that they’ve filmed a whole bunch of cameo scenes for him, so he could be appearing for a decade or more after he’s no longer physically able.

On comics: if you’ve ever wanted to get into comics, now is a great time - between Amazon and Comixology, it’s easy to buy and read things on devices. There’s some kind of unlimited service as well - Marvel, I think, but not for new issues. But I’ve only dabbled in the main Marvel stuff, and the extended continuity quickly bored me. The comics that I’ve read:

  • Matt Fraction’s Hawkeye run. I really liked this. Almost zero continuity, which mainly consisted of Spiderman, Hawkeye, and Wolverine gossiping about spoiling a TV show.
  • Astro City: serialized in a great way! Many of the issues are short stories of normal characters, with super heroes doing stuff in the background. And in “real time”, with characters getting older over the couple of decades the comic has been written. If you’re Superman (well, under a different name, but let’s not kid ourselves - it’s Superman), how on earth can you go out on a date when you know you could be saving the lives of hundreds of people over those several hours? That kind of thing.
  • Y The Last Man: highly reviewed, but personally I’m not sure why. I liked but didn’t love it. Being made into a TV series now, I believe.
  • Neil Gaiman’s Sandman: I don’t think I need to add anything.
  • The Wicked and the Divine
  • Watchmen: the first “superhero” comic I read, probably a decade ago now. Probably the only tights-and-fights style of comic that I’ve enjoyed.

If you listen to The Incomparable podcast, you may recognize much of the above as coming from their recommendations.

My assumption is that they’re just dead, but it’s true they don’t really give any details. I think wiping them from existence would be interesting, like what happened in House of M. Seeing Wolverine trying to convince people that the world is wrong was pretty cool. I don’t think that’s what they’ve done, but it’d be ballsy and interesting.

What I think will happen in the 4th movie is it will pick up a year later where people are getting used to the world as it’s become and then Tony finally finds his way back from Titan (with Rocket in tow). This’ll probably lead to them coming up with a plan on how to fix it. If Thanos is on Titan, perhaps they come across him before leaving.

Sacrificing billions of future box office receipts from potential Spider-Man, Black Panther and Dr Strange sequels would definitely be “ballsy.” Incredibly stupid too. Hard to get invested when you know all these characters are coming back in the next movie (well, maybe not the Asgardians…)

I loved Watchmen and Y: The Last Man.

I’d also recommend DMZ, Preacher, Ex Machina and Hitman for great, mature (and now concluded) comic series.

I think “ballsy and interesting” refers to the idea that the sequel is an alternate reality, where the world is changed and only one or two lonely voices try to explain everything is different. I don’t think anyone believes that Spiderman, T’Challa et al. remain dead.

I don’t think such a storyline would work (where half the people are wiped from existence, and only a few are aware), because how do you explain people who are missing one mother or one father? Obviously they had to exist at one point. Perhaps it’d work if whole family lines disappeared.

I think the sequel would be closer in spirit to the (fantastic) HBO series ‘The Leftovers’ where these people just disappear and everyone who is left behind is just broken and lost.

They would have never existed, so there’d be nobody “missing”, per se. Yes, it gets a bit confusing as to why they never existed (did their parents never meet? Did they just never get conceived?) but I don’t think they’d have to explain it in that much detail.

But it doesn’t matter since it’s probably not the case. We’ve already seen people just disintegrate and reality didn’t change around those that remained. It further doesn’t matter because everybody’s going to be okay by the end of the next movie anyway. Maybe not Loki.