Hello all,
I am currently trying to decide where to go for my bachelor’s degree. I applied to a few schools in the US and the best one I got accepted into is UC Irvine. I also applied to NTU, which hasn’t come out yet, but I’m operating under the assumption I got in to try to decide, as they only give me one week to commit. I also applied for the Taiwan Scholarship, and I think I have a pretty good shot of getting it based on my stats and how the interview went, but to my knowledge that won’t come out until the end of May, by which time it will not be of help to my decision.
For context, I have been self-learning Chinese for 5ish years and have a TOCFL level 5 certificate, and I applied as a chemistry major. I am aware that NTU would be much more challenging, but the allure of being able to get an undergraduate degree with no debt is very strong, and while UCI would be the much easier and more comfortable option, it would cost 24k per year, so I will end up in a significant amount of debt. I have also always wanted to live in Taiwan for at least a few years to perfect my Chinese, and this seems like the perfect opportunity. If I decided to go to NTU, I would likely spend the summer previewing coursework, watching the lectures in Chinese and trying to shift my STEM knowledge into Chinese.
My question is this: has anyone here gotten a Chinese-taught science degree from NTU and lived to tell the tale? What is it like trying to apply to jobs or master’s programs, either in Taiwan or back in the US? I’m quite anxious about this upcoming huge decision, so any help or perspective is appreciated.
UCI is a good school. But as a international student, the cost is very high so I choose Europe which was something I could afford. If your Taiwanese, I might think NTU is good for what you pay, its the top school in Taiwan after all.
Hopefully someone who did a science degree at NTU will pipe up. I have a couple of friends from Europe who graduated from NTU many moons ago in non-science fields. Both of them had very succesful careers in Taiwan. Neither ever tried to go back to Europe to work although my guess is that they could have done so easily.
It seems that your Chinese is probably good enough to try this. Keep in mind that the textbooks in many science classes are in English even if the lecture etc are in Mandarin. You’ll need to work on your writing. ChatGPT etc can be very helpful.
What is your personality like? Would you describe yourself as introverted or extroverted. This can be important because you will rely on and need to be on good terms with your classmates. This is very important in Taiwan and will be easier for someone who is extroverted, tolerant, and makes friends easily.
NTU students are extremely bright. I understand that in the sciences they are very well prepared in high school. In general, it’s not that easy to fail out of college in Taiwan if you always go to class. So I think you will survive.
For many people, Taiwan is where careers go to die. Salaries can be very low at first and work conditions brutal. It is not always so easy to find work back home after working in Taiwan but most people manage after a while. I think your career prospects as a graduate of NTU in the sciences would be quite bright.
Many people really like the lifestyle in Taiwan. That makes up for low pay.
The problem I see here is that you may have to accept at NTU before you get the scholarship. What if you don’t get it? How would you pay for it? Would accepting at NTU preclude you from accepting at UCI?
If you are American just stay in America. What’s the point of doing a degree outside the US if you are American?
I too went to the University of Chinese Immigrants. You didn’t specify what you plan to major in, other than it’s about science. In general, NTU is ranked higher than UCI in engineering. UCI has quarters instead of semesters, which thinking back really sucked. Otherwise, I really enjoyed my time there. Also if you are paying as an out-of-state or internatiomal student at UCI, it’s just not worth the tuition. So unless doing academic studies in Chinese is a big hurdle for you, I would probably go to NTU and apply for masters program in the US.
If you take science or engineering classes at the NTU, the assignments and exams will be in English. The lectures will be in Mandarin.
Generally speaking, this is true. But there has also been a push lately to provide EMI classes (English as a Medium of Instruction). It’s far from universal, but some and perhaps most junior faculty members will be teaching now in English. The numbers will however vary by department and program, and it’s not possible to generalize without more specific details about the department in which the OP wants to study.
Guy
I hope you go somewhere that will help Taiwan stay more connected to the rest of the world.
Because the education NTU provides is at least as good as what UCI offers and her (?) fellow students will be brilliant. It also costs a lot less plus she gets to master Chinese and adapt to a new culture and society (assuming that she grew up in the US).
I went to NTU. I liked it fine and I would definitely pick NTU over UC Irvine as UC Irvine seems kinda blah (though if it’s UC Berkeley then I would pick UC Berkeley, I’m a prestige whore).
But I don’t think NTU is necessarily a good choice for foreigners, especially from the West. Taiwanese schools are very different from Western schools socially. Stuff college kids look forward to in America like house parties, Greek life, ski trips, fun gala, doing drugs, hooking up etc. etc. doesn’t exist in Taiwan. At least nowhere near as common. Taiwan is also very small and far more egalitarian than America, meaning that people bond through shared experiences as everyone more or less all went through the same things in high school, which most people went to the same ones.
College life is very down to earth in Taiwan, if he chooses to go to NTU he would probably regret it.
I applied as a chemistry major for both universities. I would be getting in-state tuition, and while the FAFSA hasn’t come back for me yet, UCI estimated that I would be paying around 10k per year in tuition and 16k per year to dorm, and after that, 12k per year to live on off-campus apartments.
I’ve been immersing myself in Chinese for years and have recently been taking physics courses taught online in Chinese by NTU, however, my largest concern is that my slight disadvantage in Mandarin + my disadvantage of not being as strong as the local kids who got in would be a bit much to handle.
I’d say I’m decently extroverted, but I also am unlikely to be extremely outgoing in a completely new setting. I imagined I’d be most likely to make friends via language exchange (I have already made quite a few friends in Taiwan through HellotTalk), joining clubs, or offering to help my classmates with English (probably the only skill I would outdo them in).
If I didn’t get the scholarship, the overall costs of tuition, living costs, dorms, etc would amount to about $9,600 per year, which is still less than Irvine but obviously not as strong of an attractor as it would be if it were free. For that cost, my parents are willing to pay out of pocket and I would reimburse them afterwards without interest.
I could accept both, however there is no clear way to reject the offer after I’ve already accepted it like there is with American universities, and there’s also no information about it online. Hopefully they give me more information when the actual decision comes out, but for the moment, I can only speculate.
UC Irvine is a really good school with a very good reputation.
https://www.usnews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities
What do you want to do, where, after graduation?
You don’t pay, and don’t show up? ;D
I didn’t say it was bad, just not where I would personally apply to/enroll in.
Chemistry department at UCI is pretty strong, at least when I was there. The 2021 Nobel Prize winner is a UCI alumn. Two of the science buildings were named after two Nobel prize winners, F. Sherwood Rowland and Frederick Reines who used to teach at UCI.
So, I don’t know, for that one maybe you should stay in the US?
For Taiwan, you should be able to just accept and send your regrets if you decide not to attend.
Stuff college kids look forward to in America like house parties, Greek life, ski trips, fun gala, doing drugs, hooking up etc. etc. doesn’t exist in Taiwan.
Some of these exist in Taiwan or take different forms like KTV? Can OP sing? This is a very important part of social life if you want to party sometimes. Obviously, Taipei has many other forms of entertainment.
But these should not be a consideration in deciding where to go to school if you plan to be a serious student and get something out of it besides bad habits.
Taiwan is also very small and far more egalitarian than America, meaning that people bond through shared experiences as everyone more or less all went through the same things in high school, which most people went to the same ones.
It’s not that small. Taiwanes people always say this and it just isn’t true. Taiwan would be one of the biggest US states and a mid-sized European country. It is a universe unto itself.
The other things you mention like egalitarianism are big plusses. My friends who went to NTU bonded with their Taiwanese classmates for life and are far better integrated in Taiwanese society than I am. I agree about the importances of those earlier shared experiences in Taiwanese society but college students are young enough so that they can still share experiences with others.
One thing that is extremely important in Taiwan is the student club system. These are about everything you can imagine being interested in—politics, ballroom dancing, tech, tea, same sex orientations, harmonicas, bible study etc. They are a very important part of student life. Some students find their calling in life through these rather than their studies. You should definitely join a couple.
I’d like to work in research, either academia or private, ideally dealing with polymer chemistry and replacing/breaking down plastics (this seems meaningful to me), though I know that in reality, it’s hard to say what job I’ll end up landing and where I will want to end up after 4 years of undergrad. I have never really wanted to stay in the States but that might just be what ends up happening. I’ll probably have to get a master’s degree for that, so I figured if undergrad doesn’t really matter (?), the cheaper option is better.
Of course, when I went to Taiwan I was notorious as the white guy singing in 台語 during karaoke night lol. KTV may be my one advantage going in
1 - So sounds like a masters is required. Where you go for undergrad and how well you do absolutely affects where you go for grad school - might be the time undergrad matters the most. So where are you trying to go for grad school, and will a international or UC undergrad be more helpful?
2 - What are the job / salary prospects of your prospective job choices? Cheapest might not really matter that much if you have good options, and a better school helps more. Don’t cheap screw upfront at the expense of better options later.
But do you want to make States money or Taiwan money? 
There are actually more than two counties in the world, right?
But to really be mobile, I’d venture to say that the UC degree beats the NTU degree in most situations.
Guy
Sure, consider it a spectrum if you want. The conversation is, necessarily, simplified and shorthand is used.