C. Your JFK comment. I assume you believe in a conspiracy. I used to believe that, too. Then I found this website which debunks a lot of the myths. Painstakingly. It is much more fact-based than conspiracy books. As a facts person, you may enjoy it - will it change your mind? mcadams.posc.mu.edu/home.htm
But this is not a facts-based website, Cake! It has an explicit agenda: “Because much modern suffering is rooted in the unlimited greed of corporate profit-maximising.”
Medialens has some quite appalling stuff: an interview with John Pilger, who tries to justify using Indonesia as test case for the evils of globalisation. But his “reasons” apply equally well to South Korea. He can’t use South Korea because it is a hugely positive example. Selective using of facts!!! I suggest you read less polemics and more academics.
Looks like I have been joined by the FRAT BOYS.
You know quite well there are human rights abuses going on at Guant
[quote=“cake”]The sad thing is that you fail to see (or admit) that the actions in Indonesia were disgraceful. 0.5 million massacred. [/quote] No. I said nothing of that. But then the point I was making was that Pilger was guilty of a SELECTIVE USE OF FACTS. You are guilty of the same thing. You have no overall view, just a list of atrocities. It makes everything you say unhelpful to anyone, without direction or logic and, frankly, boring.
like I said you fail to admit that atrocities such as Indonesia were dispicable.
[quote=“cake”]You know quite well there are human rights abuses going on at Guant
[quote=“cake”]like I said you fail to admit that atrocities such as Indonesia were dispicable.[/quote] Any massacre of 0.5mn people is tragic and despicable. The point is, my sweet Cake, that Pilger uses his view of the Indonesian experience ALONE, to extrapolate the forces of globalisation EVERYWHERE. This is bad journalism. He refuses to use a counter-example of rich South Korea. How can he be sure he has isolated the true causes of the misery he sees? Do you understand this point?
yawn
please quote anything i have said on this thread which would suggest that i do not see torture, genocide, etc. as despicable acts.
while i find the khmer rogue genocide and the failure of the world at large to respond to it as reprehensible, i also think your blaming of the us for the ACTUAL GENOCIDE is idiotic, simplistic, and ultimately, an indication of your skewed outlook on life where everything bad has to be attributed to the us.
i can agree that the oppression of kurds in turkey is terrible without feeling the need to blame the us for it. that seems to be a level of reasoning you’re not capable of grasping.
you’re digging yourself deeper and deeper over cuba. how can i insist that there’s no torture? until i see ANY proof of torture, i will not jump to conclusions. you, on the other hand, have such an overwhelming hatred of the us that you assume that the us MUST be doing it for no other reason than the fact that the us is evil. you don’t even have a half-believable conspiracy theory on this one…just your gut feeling that “You know quite well there are human rights abuses going on at Guantánamo Bay”. lol. so forget the proof, let’s all jump to conclusions together!
have you discovered the dictionary yet? here, let me help you:
dictionary.reference.com/search?q=torture
how about you admit you have no idea what the word “torture” means and your original statement that the us was torturing prisoners at cuba was based on a flawed understanding of the word and we’ll all call it a day?
Like I said try what the detainees put up with for 20 hours and ask yourself if that is abuse? Maybe you already have and that isn’t abuse to you.
The US doesn’t need proof. They will attack either way. Just like they attacked innocent people in Afghanistan. What was interesting about Afghanistan was that Bush at first had no problem with the regime in Afghanistan, then he decided that there should be a regime change - very different to looking for a bandit in a cave.
If there is proof OBL did it then he should have been tried in an international court. There is no proof, it is evidence concocted to justify an attack. Mohammed Atta’s passport outside the WTC was so unbelievable it was hilarious.
Saddam is a butcher, and his removal will be a welcome break, but not when another dictator is put in his place and when 1000’s of innocent people will be killed. Even though there was hypocrisy in the first gulf war one has to ask why didn’t they finish the job then, maybe so they can use him again in the future.
States always need devils.
I know quite well what torture means, however your interpretation of it and what others (like the Pakistani former detainee) think it means seems to be quite different.
The dictionary quote can be equated to the detainees. I think, infact I know that if I went through what the innocents went through in cuba I would suffer pain. That could also include mental pain. But then again in your words that is only speculation. Maybe you are like Rambo. You can live through anything.
I don’t think you would condemn what goes on in the cuba either.
Like I said in an earlier post you use the word hate when explaining your views of people. That represents instability and there is clearly a problem. I would recommend an anger management course or even psychiatric help.
[quote=“cake”]I would recommend an anger management course or even psychiatric help.[/quote] Arrooooooney-looney-toooney… spoink! spoink! “Kettle! You’re black!” rooser-looser goog-goog-a-joob… Penguin? What penguin? brrrrrr…brrrr… fulch me, baby!!!
As usual Lump spouts some interesting thoughts. I would be interested to know that if it was Australian Aborigines that died in Bali, would you be so concerned?
[quote=“cake”]As usual Lump spouts some interesting thoughts. I would be interested to know that if it was Australian Aborigines that died in Bali, would you be so concerned?[/quote] Of course. Many nationalities died there. Your “reverse bigotry” is so horrible that I prefer to think you mad.
Joiky-joiky-sploooosh…shubbiter, tip-dash…WOOF! WOOF!
[quote=“Lump”]
Joiky-joiky-sploooosh…shubbiter, tip-dash…WOOF! WOOF![/quote]
I think you would be a great assistant to John Howard (and we all know about him), that sounds just like something he would say:
[quote=“cake”]I know quite well what torture means, however your interpretation of it and what others (like the Pakistani former detainee) think it means seems to be quite different.
The dictionary quote can be equated to the detainees. I think, infact I know that if I went through what the innocents went through in cuba I would suffer pain. That could also include mental pain. But then again in your words that is only speculation. Maybe you are like Rambo. You can live through anything.
I don’t think you would condemn what goes on in the cuba either.
[/quote]
??
you sound like a tv lawyer. if you had suffered the intense pain that the prisoners in cuba suffered…i can get YOU 2.5 million dollars! and MENTAL PAIN, no less! time to call larry h. parker. lol. 
“they used AIR CONDITIONING on me! it was torture!!”
in your last couple of posts, you’ve trivialized your whole argument.
You keep attacking my nationality. But I’m not Australian. Twit. Strooooodle-loooofer pop-snortingly… doomweazel…ARF! ARF! BONK!
[quote=“cake”]Piger actually states facts. That is it facts, he uses facts, that is why I admire such people.[/quote] casi.org.uk/discuss/2002/msg01957.html Anti-Iraqi-sanctions bods disbelieve claims of 0.5 mn dead kids. Admirable? He’s a polemicist. Biased. And a bit looney-tunes. Hoiky-mooky-nuggety WOOP! WOOP!
I’m not exactly deafened by the voice of moderate islam condemning these attacks. Where are these moderate muslims? The fanactics move among them. Let the moderates assist law enforcement agencies in uncovering the sleepers and terrorists. I wish they would - then there could be some evidence to give the anti-islam brigade to show not all muslims are terrorists.
Isn’t this just the re-writing of history, to suit whose needs?
from the independent:
argument.independent.co.uk/comme … ory=362545
now this is interesting, if the film exists and is broadcast who will get to see it, or is it a hoax?
according to the website the date of release is 23/dec.
It reminds me of the film enemy of the state.
rense.com/general32/conspi.htm
the official site:
geocities.com/aaactions/