There is a lot to be said for the way in which you raise a complaint. If you charge in insulting people and generally being an asshole, people are less likely to take you seriously, because you obviously don’t take it seriously.
I don’t dispute that. But the fact of the matter is, people here often would rather first talk about what is not important (style) rather than what is important (substance). In my view of the world, that’s backwards. It happens all the time though so it’s par for the course. It’d be nice if it weren’t so.
There is no way to completely divorce a message from the package in which it was wrapped.
Tone and substance are different aspects of the total message.
The medium is the message.
It’s not what you say but how you say it.
Etc. etc.
I’m not arguing that it should be.
Yes it is. It’s up to the reader to decide which is more important. The tone/style or the substance. Most people here seems to be arguing style is more important.
Please before anyone posts another knee-jerk reaction along these same lines to consider the ramifications of that statement.
Do people realize how many people would be “dinged” for their style versus their substance in this forum? Or just take your daily life as an example how that would play out.
It is important but not the most important. How many artists, writers, philosophers etc would have been silenced if people cared about their style (aka convention) rather than their substance? I could take you as an example bob. Many people have dinged you (remember that whole Village Idiot issue?) because of your style but would you consider your style to be offensive?
Let me also point out that a harsh and offensive (highly subjective anyways) tone may give it a sense of urgency surrounding the substance or concern. Yes? I doubt that if Dead Wizard were to deliver the message in a dry, detached style, people would take the same notice of his post among hundreds. But because of the way he delivered it, people took immediate notice. Is not that one of the purposes of feedback and complaints? To say, “hello, take notice of me please?”
I’ll draw another analogy. You take a look at a person, you see their style, you make immediate judgments on that superficial analysis of their “worthiness”. Depending on the outcome of that 5-10 sec analysis, you’d determine whether or not the person is worth bothering to know and be friends with. Maybe you’ve already formed some biases and prejudices on that person. I bet almost everyone here would state that that is utter BS. And it is, but yet, these same folks would say, that it’s ok here to judge the worthiness of a posting based on the same superficial style.
Is there a difference?
I think another thing to remember is the time in which this showed up. We’ve just come out of an onslaught of trollish and assholish behavior on the boards, so people charging in swinging and being dicks are more likely than usual to cop flak for their method, for right or wrong. It’s bad timing.
When giving feedback style and substance are equally important IMO - just throwing in some accusations and name calling is a very bad start for giving feedback, in particular if it turns out that most if not all of those accusations are unfounded/false.
Personally I don’t see any reason why anyone should make an effort to filter out the substance (if any) from such a post when the OP doesn’t seem to be the least concerned about the same; comes close to picking arguments against yourself at your own trial.
If you wanna be heard (and not just rant) make sure you do use an appropiate style and make sure you provide substance, i.e. facts, not wild accusations. And leave out the name-calling.
[quote=“Rascal”]If you wanna be heard (and not just rant) make sure you do use an appropiate style and make sure you provide substance, i.e. facts, not wild accusations. And leave out the name-calling.[/quote]Indeed, and actually make sure of your facts first. EG. Look at [url=http://tw.forumosa.com/t/temple-sex/17755/33 ACCUSATION[/url] (I know which post he’s referring to, because he edited it out of his complaint, but not before I saw it, what is the point of editing a complaint to make it MORE vague ?) but as you can see from my reply that his complaint is completely groundless, madeup, and bollocks.
There are some things that no amount of politeness would render acceptable, but there are also many acceptable ideas that can be rendered unacceptable by a negative tone because tone goes to attitude and a negative attitude is exactly what makes a troll.
How are we ever going to find out whether NELSON LEE found a bass player to e-mail for him? It’s sad.
He was looking for a singer, a drummer, and a guitar player as well.
Wonder what he was up to since he seemed to advertise for a whole band, just broken down into its individual components.
Would have been wiser for him to post each of them once, and then bumped them on a weekly basis.
He was looking for a singer, a drummer, and a guitar player as well.
Wonder what he was up to since he seemed to advertise for a whole band, just broken down into its individual components.
Would have been wiser for him to post each of them once, and then bumped them on a weekly basis.[/quote]
maybe he/she’s too busy bumping a singer, drummer and bass player to be bothered with posting here altogether 
What happened with rubicon bojalader or whatever?
Right, I’m going to email Nelson Lee right now. I play bass, guitar, drums, and sing too.
Wait… if I am that good what on earth do I need Nelson Lee for. I am a one man band.
Nelson, good luck, but I’m strapping on my drum, harmonica, knee cymbals, and the monkey I trained to collect money, and hitting the streets.
I also play the spoons too.
[quote=“In another thread, Maoman”]In this thread, retroactive to January 1st 2005, I will list all members who have been proposed for a ban, the general reasons behind the ban proposal, and the outcome (Yes, many posters actually survive the ban!).
I imagine a Banned Members thread will be started in response to some of the ban proposals, but remember that we may or may not respond. I have to emphasize this: We will not re-try cases in the court of anonymous cyber opinion. We have a group of dedicated, accessible moderators, and they do an outstanding job in keeping Forumosa friendly, spirited, useful, free, and fun. While I trust none of them individually , collectively they’re a pretty good bunch, and their opinions are highly valued by me.
Rubicon Bojader and Rabbit Moon, reincarnations of Mod Lang and Peking Spring, rebanned on May 8th.
NELSON LEE, proposed for a ban on May 8th for spamming the forums, vote pending.
Comrade Stalin, proposed for a ban on April 28th for obscenity and personal attacks, Star Chamber voted in favour of a ban.
FUF, proposed for a ban on March 22nd, for racist posts and personal attacks, Star Chamber voted in favour of a ban.
ac_dropout, proposed for a ban on March 17th, for hijacking threads, Star Chamber voted against a ban.
Dave’s girl, proposed for a ban on February 26th, for spamming and personal attacks, Star Chamber voted in favour of a ban.
pres_ dabien, proposed for a ban on February 24th for hateful sexist and hateful racist posts, Star Chamber voted in favour of a ban.
Comrade Stalin, proposed for a ban on February 1st, for personal attacks and flame-baiting, Star Chamber voted against a ban.
monkey, proposed for a ban on January 27th, for hate-filled posts, Star Chamber voted against a ban.
Canuck, proposed for a ban on January 21st, for racist, hate-filled posts, Star Chamber voted in favour of a ban.
Mod Lang and Peking Spring, proposed for a ban on January 18th, for smurfing, trolling and being offensive, Star Chamber voted in favour of a ban.
Leo, proposed for on ban on January 17th for spamming the forums, Star Chamber voted in favour of a ban.[/quote]
I know that the cases are not to be retried, but would it not be a good idea to update the list, boss?
Jut spotted rupert pumpkin and moredeath getting the kiss of death, and would just like to know what’s happening. I guess that I am not the only one.
Interesting…I didn’t spot the Mordeth death until you pointed it out. I check all his latest posts, and I can’t see anything offensive there, so I guess he said something that is now living in the magic flame thread? RP outed himself, so that’s understandable.
Moredeath was a prolific spammer, putting this and that up.
he could also be outrageous at times, and may well have put some really gross up, like his latest adventure with an underage girl at the 12 inch trouser snake or something like that.
How so? If a poster gets banned under one ID it’s a common held belief that he/she can come back under a new ID and will have a fresh start.
If that poster then outs him/herself as a previously banned poster, is that a bannable offense in itself?
How so? If a poster gets banned under one ID it’s a common held belief that he/she can come back under a new ID and will have a fresh start.
If that poster then outs him/herself as a previously banned poster, is that a bannable offense in itself?[/quote]
According to precedent, yeah I think it is. I think they are wecome to come back as long as they keep their mouth shut about who they were. It would be pointless to let them stay, right? If it was worth banning them the first time, we shouldn’t let them stay just because they change their screen name. It’s one of those see no evil, hear no evil things.