Being a racist or being attracted to physical attributes?

[Ian_Alexander]

@SuchAFob

[quote=“ILoveItHereButIDoMissSnow”][quote=“SuchAFob”]I don’t understand how spending a lot of time studying could hinder finding a good man. Hell, some of the best I’ve had have been found in libraries.

But if you refuse to go out with them afterwards? [/quote]

Go out where? From what I have seen most men invite women out to clubs or bars. Yes, I would refuse that. And I have also refused many men with a large assortment of excuses (including that I had studying to do) simply because I was not interested in that particular man.
They may have fucked up socializing from where you are standing, but from where she is sitting it might be you. I for one do not get the idea of going out to a bar to meet a bunch of drunk people I have nothing in common with. I don’t see any reason at all why anyone would want to go start conversations with people they know nothing about.
Just because the girl would rather study than go “play” (and most of these types of “play” are incredibly boring and I would rather hang out with the friends I already have) doesn’t mean she doesn’t socialize. It just means she doesn’t socialize the way you do.[/quote]

I agree with you there. If you don’t like bars (as I never have) then don’t try to meet people there- otherwise they will keep taking you back there. Its good to meet people doing something you enjoy, that way you know you have something in common from the start. If you meet someone while doing something you hate then its likely you will have issues with that in the future.

[Tyc00n]

@SuchAFob

[quote=“ILoveItHereButIDoMissSnow”][quote=“SuchAFob”]I don’t understand how spending a lot of time studying could hinder finding a good man. Hell, some of the best I’ve had have been found in libraries.

But if you refuse to go out with them afterwards? [/quote]

Go out where? From what I have seen most men invite women out to clubs or bars. Yes, I would refuse that. And I have also refused many men with a large assortment of excuses (including that I had studying to do) simply because I was not interested in that particular man.
They may have fucked up socializing from where you are standing, but from where she is sitting it might be you. I for one do not get the idea of going out to a bar to meet a bunch of drunk people I have nothing in common with. I don’t see any reason at all why anyone would want to go start conversations with people they know nothing about.
Just because the girl would rather study than go “play” (and most of these types of “play” are incredibly boring and I would rather hang out with the friends I already have) doesn’t mean she doesn’t socialize. It just means she doesn’t socialize the way you do.[/quote]

As apposed to all the drunk people she meets online

[Erhu]

[quote=“Freecia”]Thank you for your thoughts, I really appreciate someone, especially from a man’s perspective, to not consider me a “sell out” or a racist.

I take it that my friend feels very bitter about the recent phenomena that Caucasian men seem to “get” all the Asian girls. While I do start to see a lot of that happening especially with the combination of Caucasian men and Asian women as oppose to the rare cases of Asian men and Caucasian women, I really feel that there’s a good reason behind it. I feel that women, especially Asian women, are starting to feel the same way I feel. There are certain expectations that Asian women were to fulfill from their partner’s point of view, and those expectations sometimes aren’t what Asian women want. Having a long history of oppression, I feel that Asian women are finally beginning to realize their Asian men probably won’t change any time soon, and therefore, they look for alternative. Perhaps, some of them just want someone different, and have experiences of something new. Perhaps, the idea of being weaklings who were suppose listen to everything their men said just don’t sit well anymore. Whatever the reason it may be, I feel that Asian women are definetely more daring to persue what they want, rather than what their parents, relatives, siblings, partners tell them they want. Of course, this is not to say that all Asian men are oppressive to their women, but I think it’s hard to yank the deep rooted male surpremacy belief if this was what men ever see and learn since they were young.

The irony with my eurasian friend is that, he’s the very product of such relationship. His dad’s Caucasian, and his mom’s Chinese. Yet, he sits there complaining how Asian women should stop looking only for Caucasian men, as there are many qualified, decent Asian men out there as well. Due to these girls’ supposed “racial profiling”, the Asian men were given bad names and therefore, have tough time finding mates. “To each of their own” was what I had in my mind. Some men may find me attractive, some men find me repulsive. Some men may like my personality, some may find me extremely obnoxious. I don’t understand how it is fair to accuse the Asian girls for looking for who they want, no matter what the reason is? Again, this may be something deep rooted in Asian men’s minds as their women belong ONLY to them. When the women start looking for someone outside of that racial or cultural group, these women are all of a sudden, sell outs.

It is true that I shouldn’t have to justified my relationship to anyone, especially to someone whom I believe to be narrowminded such as my friend. I never had problems with people judging me without knowing me however, at the same time, I feel like there’s severe misundersatnding the general public have for interracial relationships that I feel like I have to defend. Just because, I’m in one, and it’s wonderful.[/quote]

Another irony here is that if you have any sons, they too will be half Asian and as a result of widespread negative generalizations about Asian men (that you as an individual justify), may find themselves in the same predicament as your bitter Eurasian friend.

White men married to or in relationships with Asian women might also want to consider this before they condone negative comments about Asian guys. Their sons will also be Asian men someday.

[SuchAFob]

I agree with you there. If you don’t like bars (as I never have) then don’t try to meet people there- otherwise they will keep taking you back there. Its good to meet people doing something you enjoy, that way you know you have something in common from the start. If you meet someone while doing something you hate then its likely you will have issues with that in the future.

So she needs to meet someone who enjoys studying. This isn’t hard.

[anon38216271]

Freecia

The concern you have has been discussed ad nauseum in the African-American community: Black males dating and marrying or even just having a preference for white women.

I’ve heard all sorts of justifications from black males as to why they like or prefer white women over black women. From the asinine- “I’ll have pretty children, who will have good hair” to “White women know how to take care and appreciate a black man”.

Thing is people always have this strange habit of questioning other people’s choices when it comes to love. Even more so when the relationship goes against the grain of the ‘norm’.

Best of luck with this one. It’s not a question that’s going to stop being asked for a long time.[/url]

[Freecia]

[quote=“Erhu”]

Another irony here is that if you have any sons, they too will be half Asian and as a result of widespread negative generalizations about Asian men (that you as an individual justify), may find themselves in the same predicament as your bitter Eurasian friend.

White men married to or in relationships with Asian women might also want to consider this before they condone negative comments about Asian guys. Their sons will also be Asian men someday.[/quote]

You are correct. My statement certainly is unfair to the truly decent Asian men who possess all the good qualities to be a good boyfriends, husbands and/or fathers. I think we all have to remember though, that the society is always changing and that the culture is changing as well. What negative aspects my mother had to go through in her marriage may not be what I have to go through anymore, had I married an Asian man. I truly hope that in the next decade or so, my statement about Asian men generally being oppressive, is no longer valid. However, as of now, I still go with my experiences with the kind of men I’ve encountered in my life to make my own judgement calls, and to persue what I believe to be true happiness.

[ac_dropout]

Do women of any culture generally oppress men?

Are you trying to state the women of Taiwan are oppressed? Or are Taiwanese immigrants in the USA oppressed? I thought it was only the PRC oppressing the Taiwanese.

There are certain practices in traditional Taiwanese household that are unfair to men. Like letting the women control 100% of the family money. Setting limits to drinks. Controlling the frequency of sex. Only a white women can free me from the endless cycle of oppression…

Then again she never reveal how she was oppressed either. Let me relate some of the stories I heard since I know quite a bit of 1.5 generation Asian Americans from Taiwan. Most of the complaints I hear from my peers growing up is treating male siblings differently, like letting the brothers have sex in the house but not letting the sisters. Or allowing the brother to get driving privileges. Are these really actions of oppression that can only be resolved by marrying a non-Asian?

My perspective is that this is more about an accultured Asian immigrant who cannot find a socially compatible mate among the 4% Asain American population.

When I read her post I can relate to hapa perspective, because throughout her post she relate her bad experiences specifically to Asian culture and Asian males. Which leaves in the mind of the reader that there is something wrong with Asian culture and Asian males in general.

If you wish to argue semantics in that some of her sentences had qualifiers, then it is a useless exercise, since it is obvious she is a thoughtful person and probably not a “sell out” of a Connie Chung or Michelle Malkin caliber. Using their Asian background to criticize their culture of origin, pandering to non-Asian desire to validate their own prejudices against a minority group in the USA.

Why do you think that the OP was trying to boost her ego?

Once again directing the question to the wrong poster. Am I the only Asian American male active in this part of the forum for you to project your hostilities on?

I don’t know why she is seeking validation online. All I can do is impart my perspective as another 1.5 generation Asian American.

Why do you not think that she was quiet about her choice until goaded into defending the same by her hapa friend?

No idea. I don’t know these people. All I can do is comment on what they are willing to reveal.

Like I mentioned rationalizing relationship is quite a bore at some point, because fundimentally is about individual human weaknesses and compensating for them.

[anon38216271]

@Freecia

You are correct. My statement certainly is unfair to the truly decent Asian men who possess all the good qualities to be a good boyfriends, husbands and/or fathers. I think we all have to remember though, that the society is always changing and that the culture is changing as well. What negative aspects my mother had to go through in her marriage may not be what I have to go through anymore, had I married an Asian man. I truly hope that in the next decade or so, my statement about Asian men generally being oppressive, is no longer valid. However, as of now, I still go with my experiences with the kind of men I’ve encountered in my life to make my own judgement calls, and to persue what I believe to be true happiness.

I’m always a bit wary and suspicious of a person who says that another race treats them better. It seems to me to be a cover up for latent and unresolved issues and resentment they have toward members of their own race. I think Freecia you’re blaming your mom’s marriage as a reason you couldn’t find a ‘good’ Asian man as oppose to you saying it was a decision you made. Where there any positive aspects in your mother’s marriage as to why it could be a good reason to look favorably upon Asian men?

There’s something really fishy about this whole arguement that you’re making

[Freecia]

[quote=“Namahottie”]

I’m always a bit wary and suspicious of a person who says that another race treats them better. It seems to me to be a cover up for latent and unresolved issues and resentment they have toward members of their own race. I think Freecia you’re blaming your mom’s marriage as a reason you couldn’t find a ‘good’ Asian man as oppose to you saying it was a decision you made. Where there any positive aspects in your mother’s marriage as to why it could be a good reason to look favorably upon Asian men?

There’s something really fishy about this whole arguement that you’re making [/quote]

What influences the making of a decision? I think, is experience, knowledge, personal beliefs, among other things. No, I don’t blame my mother’s marriage as a reason I couldn’t find a good Asian man. Yes, I used my mother’s marriage as a reference, of how she was forced by her own husband and her parents in law to stay in the marriage when her husband cheated on her repeatedly. I used my sister’s past relationship as a reference, of how her ex boyfriend taught her to place him first before everyone else, as he was going to be the person to spend the rest of her life with. I used my own personal experience of ex boyfriend telling me I should dress, and behave a certain way in front of his friends so I would’nt embarass him.

I didn’t want to give out more specific details as I simply wanted to bring up this general question to see what are everyone’s viewpoints. I understand that there’s bound to be people who disagree with me, as we were raised and experienced our lives differently. I thank you for defending my choice in partner but I also thank you for pointing out my ignorance.

[Tigerman]

@Erhu

White men married to or in relationships with Asian women might also want to consider this before they condone negative comments about Asian guys. Their sons will also be Asian men someday.

My boy is a so-called hapa. He’s neither Asian nor caucasian. In our family, we call 'em as we see 'em. An asshole is an asshole, no matter what color he/she happens to be. And if we see certain tendencies in any group or sub-group of people, we recognize the same. We do not, however, stereotype the individuals of such groups/sub-groups. But to discard obvious (to us) tendencies is, IMO, quite odd.

[Tigerman]

Do women of any culture generally oppress men?

@ac_dropout

Are you trying to state the women of Taiwan are oppressed? Or are Taiwanese immigrants in the USA oppressed?

I’m not saying anything. I asked a question.

@ac_dropout

Let me relate some of the stories I heard since I know quite a bit of 1.5 generation Asian Americans from Taiwan. Most of the complaints I hear from my peers growing up is treating male siblings differently, like letting the brothers have sex in the house but not letting the sisters. Or allowing the brother to get driving privileges. Are these really actions of oppression that can only be resolved by marrying a non-Asian?

I don’t know. But, it certainly does seem unfair.

@ac_dropout

My perspective is that this is more about an accultured Asian immigrant who cannot find a socially compatible mate among the 4% Asain American population.

Is she obligated to first try all available Asian males in that 4% population before she is free to try a non-Asian male?

@ac_dropout

When I read her post I can relate to hapa perspective, because throughout her post she relate her bad experiences specifically to Asian culture and Asian males. Which leaves in the mind of the reader that there is something wrong with Asian culture and Asian males in general.

The only thing important is that the OP believes that a higher proportion of Asian males are oppressive in relationships. Are we all to be required to have “correct” perceptions when seeking a mate? Who will enforce these “correct” perceptions? Are you implying that there is nothing wrong with Asian culture or Asian males? Are Asian culture and Asian males perfect? If no, then why would you care what anyone believes/perceives about certain aspects of Asian culture or Asian males, in general rather than by way of a stereotype?

@ac_dropout

If you wish to argue semantics in that some of her sentences had qualifiers, then it is a useless exercise, since it is obvious she is a thoughtful person…

Well, if she qualified here statements, and she did so, what is the problem?

@ac_dropout

…and probably not a “sell out” of a Connie Chung or Michelle Malkin caliber.

Why are these women “sell-outs”? And again, what exactly is a “sell-out”, and what is being “sold-out”?

@ac_dropout

Using their Asian background to criticize their culture of origin…

I frequently do that to criticize Pittsburgh culture. What’s wrong with that?

@ac_dropout

…pandering to non-Asian desire to validate their own prejudices against a minority group in the USA.

Huh? What are you talking about? What prejudice has the OP attempted to validate? And what has the fact of minority status have to do with anything?

Why do you think that the OP was trying to boost her ego?

@ac_dropout

Once again directing the question to the wrong poster. Am I the only Asian American male active in this part of the forum for you to project your hostilities on?

I’m not hostile toward Asians. What gives you that idea? You, on the other hand, are attacking the OP and making a number of negative assumptions re her motives.

@ac_dropout

I don’t know why she is seeking validation online. All I can do is impart my perspective as another 1.5 generation Asian American.

You’re nothing more than another individual human… same as the rest of us. Same as the OP.

[Huang_Guang_Chen]

Had to be done. That ugly little China nationalist genie had to get back into that bottle, Asian values or not.

HG

[ac_dropout]

Are we all to be required to have “correct” perceptions when seeking a mate?

It would be wise. There is a reason to the US 50% divorce rate.

Are you implying that there is nothing wrong with Asian culture or Asian males?

No more than another race or gender in the fabric of the US.

If no, then why would you care what anyone believes/perceives about certain aspects of Asian culture or Asian males, in general rather than by way of a stereotype?

Because that is my individual responsibility to ensure that the US society is better than what I inherited. Racial generalities and stereotypes have been shown to restrict the progress of US culture.

Not to mention this thread wouldn’t be interesting if I didn’t feel obligated to take this side of the argument on my soap box.

Unless Freecia is wiling to reveal more, your conservative shtick to my liberal foil is getting jaded.

[Tigerman]

@ac_dropout

…your conservative shtick to my liberal foil is getting jaded.

Huh?

You have no idea how extremely liberal I am. I’m the one here arguing that individuals should be free to make their own decisions regarding their personal matters based on whatever criteria they select, even if their information is not perfect and or is admittedly based on a generalization.

You are the one calling an Asian girl who decided to date outside of her “race” a “sell-out”.

You sound like those yahoos in the KKK. And those yahoos ain’t liberal, by any definition of the term.

[Rascal]

@ac_dropout

[quote]Are we all to be required to have “correct” perceptions when seeking a mate?

It would be wise. There is a reason to the US 50% divorce rate.[/quote]
I think “correct” was referring to choosing a partner without prejudice or personal believes against his race. In any case you will only know later if the partner was the right choice, so your argument about the divorce rate seems somewhat out of place.

[ac_dropout]

@Tigerman

[quote=“ac_dropout”] …your conservative shtick to my liberal foil is getting jaded.

Huh?

You have no idea how extremely liberal I am. I’m the one here arguing that individuals should be free to make their own decisions regarding their personal matters based on whatever criteria they select, even if their information is not perfect and or is admittedly based on a generalization.

You are the one calling an Asian girl who decided to date outside of her “race” a “sell-out”.

You sound like those yahoos in the KKK. And those yahoos ain’t liberal, by any definition of the term.[/quote]

I’m using the term liberal and conservative as an allegory to the fact we don’t see eye to eye on the issue. Not what our personal political views might be.

I didn’t call anyone a sell out. I merely explain how it might be perceived as being a sell out by the hapa mentioned in Freecia post. Not because one date outside their race. Because as I explained one can date outside their race and not be a sell out. It is when one promotes the prejudices and negative stereotypes against their race, whether intentional or not, that makes them a sell out.

My position is valid only in the USA where Asians are the minority group. Because if this occurred in Taiwan, it is a moot point, since the majority would not react by beginning discriminatory practice against Asians.

To better illustrate my point, imagine the Freecia is a white woman in Taiwan. Raised to the sixth grade in the USA and immigrated to Taiwan afterwards. She claims her hapa friend called her a sell out when she related the reason why she decided to marry outside her race. That white men oppressed her with Catholic religion and there was some bad incidents involving recreational drugs. Her experiences were just not limited to her immediate family, but her white female friends at American school also had similar difficulties. So why take a chance on a white male that may have visa issues, a drug problem, and pedophilia tendencies? When the solution to seek a non-White male on Taiwan is available.

Unlike you I would not try to defend bizzaro-Freecia if a white male in Taiwan related why he believe her hapa friend called bizzaro-Freecia a sell out.

The KKK?!? I don’t believe that there is a dilution of Asian culture, especially the Chinese culture. Nor do I believe that the Chinese are entitled to their own nation at the exclusion of every minority group (a common theme in my TP post) in the State. I also truly believe in social status being directly related to the merit of ones accomplishments and not on their race.

Not to mention I’m too fashionable for army boots and a shaved head. Do the bedsheets come in corture with at least 1000 thread count? I haven’t gone to Wal-mart for off the rack fashion in ages, everything is made in China. A blind gimp in HK could make a better costume… (I’m I a sell out for promoting my own negative stereotype… )

[ac_dropout]

@Rascal

[quote=“ac_dropout”][quote]Are we all to be required to have “correct” perceptions when seeking a mate?

It would be wise. There is a reason to the US 50% divorce rate.[/quote]
I think “correct” was referring to choosing a partner without prejudice or personal believes against his race. In any case you will only know later if the partner was the right choice, so your argument about the divorce rate seems somewhat out of place.[/quote]
Well the pun isn’t really as effective once you look behind the curtain.

Yes I understand the Tigerman was referring to PC (political correct) ideology, while I misconstrued it to mean selection criteria for a life long mate.

Deliberate intellectual dishonesty perhaps, but no less poignant since the larger discussion is about how to find happiness through marriage.

Freecia believes in the stereotype of Asian culture and Asian males as being oppressive. Using it to select a non-Asian husband she luckily finds happiness.

But what if in another scenario the husband is unaware that he was suppose to be anti-thesis of Asian culture. And even less interested in “saving” anyone from the fated demise of being a traditional “Confucian Asian wife”

A successful relationships are never easy. I don’t believe the stereotypes helps.

Woe to the man who argues with their Asian wife in the heat of passion, “I save you from the misery of becoming an Confucian wife to an Asian husband, and a green card to boot”…

Trophy BF, like myself, hear that story one too many times…

[Tigerman]

@ac_dropout

I didn’t call anyone a sell out. I merely explain how it might be perceived as being a sell out by the hapa mentioned in Freecia post. Not because one date outside their race. Because as I explained one can date outside their race and not be a sell out. It is when one promotes the prejudices and negative stereotypes against their race, whether intentional or not, that makes them a sell out.

So, like that Moslem girl in The Netherlands who speaks out against how Islamic men oppress women, she’s a “sell out”, eh?

@ac_dropout

My position is valid only in the USA where Asians are the minority group. Because if this occurred in Taiwan, it is a moot point, since the majority would not react by beginning discriminatory practice against Asians.

The Taiwanese do not discriminate against other groups of Asians?

@ac_dropout

To better illustrate my point, imagine the Freecia is a white woman in Taiwan. Raised to the sixth grade in the USA and immigrated to Taiwan afterwards. She claims her hapa friend called her a sell out when she related the reason why she decided to marry outside her race. That white men oppressed her with Catholic religion and there was some bad incidents involving recreational drugs. Her experiences were just not limited to her immediate family, but her white female friends at American school also had similar difficulties. So why take a chance on a white male that may have visa issues, a drug problem, and pedophilia tendencies? When the solution to seek a non-White male on Taiwan is available.

That would seem perfectly reasonable, IMO.

@ac_dropout

Unlike you I would not try to defend bizzaro-Freecia if a white male in Taiwan related why he believe her hapa friend called bizzaro-Freecia a sell out.

That’s your right.

Unlike you, I would not label a gal a “sell-out” for dating outside her race because she perceived, correctly or not, that the males of her race in her area tend to be a certain way that she does not like. That’s her business and her’s alone.

Now, had Freecia claimed that she dated outside of her race because all men of her race are x or y or whatever, I would have joined in to condemn such thinking. However, Freecia clearly indicated that she knows that not all Asian men are oppressive, but that she didn’t want to take a chance finding Mr. Right amongst a population that, in her eyes, tends to be more oppressive.

[ac_dropout]

The Taiwanese do not discriminate against other groups of Asians?

Obviously they do since Freecia discriminates against all Asian men for fear that their culture of origin might be influenced by Confucius, like Japan and Korea. She never mentioned about Asians whose cultures might not have been influenced Confucius. But I’m inclined to believe that she subscribes to the stereotypes that an American would hold about these groups under the general Asian label.

Unlike you, I would not label a gal a “sell-out” for dating outside her race because she perceived, correctly or not, that the males of her race in her area tend to be a certain way that she does not like. That’s her business and her’s alone.

That is incorrect I never labeled the gal in question a “sell-out.” I have merely hazarded a guess as to why a hapa would reach that conclusion at the request of Freecia with her post in a public forum. Freecia already stated that the intent of the comment made by the hapa in question was not out of actual malice, but out of humor, pointing out the irony in, what I would suspect, why such a thoughtful and well educated individual would practice this form of reverse discrimination in her personal life. The hapa is well within his rights in expressing these thoughts.

Your actions resulting in the suppression of another poster’s post leaves me to question your intent in continuing to attack my character with defamatory remarks; falsely accusing me of actions I have never made.

However, Freecia clearly indicated that she knows that not all Asian men are oppressive, but that she didn’t want to take a chance finding Mr. Right amongst a population that, in her eyes, tends to be more oppressive.

Racial discrimination that you have described is clearly not tolerated in employment, housing, and whole host of other aspect of life in the US. Why sit there defending what is clearly a faux pas in American social life?

[Tigerman]

Unlike you, I would not label a gal a “sell-out” for dating outside her race because she perceived, correctly or not, that the males of her race in her area tend to be a certain way that she does not like. That’s her business and her’s alone.

@ac_dropout

That is incorrect I never labeled the gal in question a “sell-out.”

Here is what you posted:

@ac_dropout

It is when one promotes the prejudices and negative stereotypes against their race, whether intentional or not, that makes them a sell out.

You have complained that the OP has promoted the prejudices and negative stereotypes against her race.

You complained as follows:

@ac_dropout

Using their Asian background to criticize their culture of origin pandering to non-Asian desire to validate their own prejudices against a minority group in the USA.

In your mind, per your statement above, that makes her a “sell-out”. If I am misunderstanding your position, please do clarify the same.

@ac_dropout

Your actions resulting in the suppression of another poster’s post leaves me to question your intent in continuing to attack my character with defamatory remarks; falsely accusing me of actions I have never made.

Well, I think I’ve shown above that you do indeed believe the OP is a “sell-out”, and thus I am not defaming you. Nor am I seeking to suppress your opinion. In fact, as a Mod I was always your most enthusiastic defender when you were up for suspension on several occassions.

However, Freecia clearly indicated that she knows that not all Asian men are oppressive, but that she didn’t want to take a chance finding Mr. Right amongst a population that, in her eyes, tends to be more oppressive.

@ac_dropout

Racial discrimination that you have described is clearly not tolerated in employment, housing, and whole host of other aspect of life in the US. Why sit there defending what is clearly a faux pas in American social life?

Nonsense.

I am not about to argue that individuals should conform to some PC notion that we must all love, admire and respect everyone on this planet in an equal manner.

Let’s suppose that the OP was a green woman from Green Nation. Let’s also suppose that for whatever reason, the OP understood, correctly or incorrectly, that a large percentage of males from Green Nation were infected with HIV. Let’s suppose further that the OP also knew that many of the males from Green Nation were not infected with HIV, but she honestly believes that a large percentage of males from Green Nation were infected with HIV. Would you fault her for making a decision not to date any males from Green Nation, and instead find a husband from Orange Nation?

If you would fault her for her decision, why?