I’m (usually) not bothered anymore when I’m referred to as waiguoren or laowai. However, I am immensely impressed when, on the rare occasion, I’m referred to as simply xiansheng or keren (guest/customer).
It’s too bad that this is rare, at least in my experience.
[quote=“Steve4nLanguage”]I’m (usually) not bothered anymore when I’m referred to as waiguoren or laowai. However, I am immensely impressed when, on the rare occasion, I’m referred to as simply xiansheng or keren (guest/customer).
It’s too bad that this is rare, at least in my experience.[/quote]
Exactly my point. If you’re on a store, you should be called xiansheng or keren, which is basically the proper way to refer to a client.
Which textbook are you looking at? How is referring to foreign people as foreign people in any way racist?
And how is anything you have described even remotely bigoted?
Since when are the Taiwanese unable to tolerate foreign people?[/quote]
Pointing out the difference in race at the beginning of a conversation, using it as a reference point throughout the conversation, treating this individual differently because he/she is different is kind of racism at its core.
How is it bigoted? next time you are back home, after one of your climate change denier meetings, refer to every foreign looking person you come across as foreign, call them that immediately and bring it up several times and tell me there won’t be an issue or you won’t look like an utter twat.
No one said Taiwanese are unable to tolerate foreigners, Jesus H. aren’t you a lawyer, isn’t reading comprehension a pre-requisite, I clearly discussed in the OP that I didn’t think it was intended to be hurtful or malicious (hence the reality and perception bit).
Stick to railing against 99.9% of the scientific world with the fairly tales you come across on oil funded right wing ‘science’ blogs, that is your wheelhouse.
Wow, have not read through all the thread, but the title caught my eye. Have not experienced negativity with the use of waiguoren which I hear all the time. Usually when they say it they are smiling in attempt to open conversation which is usually followed up with where I from, what I do, … The use of the word bigotry (…treats or views other people with fear, distrust or hatred on the basis of a person’s…) is pretty strong. Maybe I have not lived her long enough, but just have not seen this. Some of the local businesses/shops I go to say it almost as a greeting (like hello foreigner), and then they are attentive and helpful.
[quote=“Tigerman”]
Which textbook are you looking at? How is referring to foreign people as foreign people in any way racist?
And how is anything you have described even remotely bigoted?
Since when are the Taiwanese unable to tolerate foreign people?[/quote]
There is nothing racist about pointing out obvious differences in appearance. And using race as a reference point, where the difference, obviously is that of language and culture, is not racist, either. Treating an individual differently may be discrimination, which is the secondary definition of racism. But, again, if the different treatment is simply in reference to obvious language and cultural differences, then there really isn’t any racism involved. You’re going to have to give more specific context and drop the general assertions.
You don’t know the definition of bigotry, do you? 
Your thread title is Bigotry in Taiwan. I’m just trying to understand what you think the bigotry is, as you don’t seem, based on the definition of bigotry, to be making any sense.
Oriental became a bad word with the publication of Said’s ‘Orientalism’ book. Though now scholars have been revisiting the word…
In Europe, its still OK. Plenty of academics refer to themselves as ‘orientalists’ without hesitation (except when they come to the US…). Source: had a scholar approach me at the end of a panel I presented on at a conference in San Diego. He was from the UK. He introduced himself saying “I am an Orientalist…I know thats a bad word here, but not in the UK.”
And don’t forget the EFEO (École française d’Extrême-Orient) which is pretty active in Taiwan actually.
(waits for post to disappear)
Taiwanese are very friendly to foreigners, even more friendly to them than to Taiwanese. Do you like Taiwanese food?
I’ve witnessed the American version of “laowai” at home towards black people, although not on the same scale. “I use to work with a black guy who such and such…,” “I have a black friend who went to…,” as an example. No, i didn’t need to know he was black to catch the main point. Are these people racist? I don’t think so. I can’t remember hearing them saying negative things about black people
Taiwan is a mono-ethnic society. You are different, deal with it.
Really? What about the aborigines whose land the Chinese are occupying? The Philippine, Vietnamese, Thai, Indonesian, Malaysian, Japanese, white and black residents?
Its just pure, ignorant Chinese racism. That’s what it is.
Really? What about the aborigines whose land the Chinese are occupying? The Philippine, Vietnamese, Thai, Indonesian, Malaysian, Japanese, white and black residents?
Its just pure, ignorant Chinese racism. That’s what it is.[/quote]
YEah sadly the aboriginals count about as much as the indians (i mean American Indian here) count in America .
But Taiwan is basically asian so anyone not asian would stand out.
ITs getting better. I used to be called TOK PEE AH< everywhere i went, and i resented that.
[quote=“Tigerman”] Treating an individual differently may be discrimination, which is the secondary definition of racism.
[/quote]
OK, so we are back in agreement.
Moving on…
Actually read through most of the thread and still not getting it. Besides the use of the words for foreigner, do you believe there are some NEGATIVE biases resulting in some NEGATIVE actions, or responses, against you or other foreigners? If so what?
True story:
My wife-to-be to her family: “I’m in a relationship with a guy from Barcelona”
My in-laws-to-be: “Is he black? If he is, forget it!”
Don’t get them started.
I’ve met a number of people who have lived in the US for some time and tell me they don’t like Americans because Americans are all racist. Irony aside…
From my experience, A: the majority of these people don’t speak much English; B: the majority of these people are pretty hard to get along with in the first place.
Put on your detective hats here.
[quote]Taoyuan County Councilor Lu Lin Hsiao-feng (呂林小鳳), who represents the constituency, denied that residents wanted foreign workers to leave because of racial discrimination.
“It has nothing to do with discrimination,” she said. “With 460 households and more than 1,000 residents, Rueilian is a peaceful community. They are merely worried that clashes could happen because of these foreign workers, with their different skin color and different culture, going in and out of the community.”[/quote]
[quote]Taoyuan County Councilor Lu Lin Hsiao-feng (呂林小鳳), who represents the constituency, denied that residents wanted foreign workers to leave because of racial discrimination.
“It has nothing to do with discrimination,” she said. “With 460 households and more than 1,000 residents, Rueilian is a peaceful community. They are merely worried that clashes could happen because of these foreign workers, with their different skin color and different culture, going in and out of the community.”[/quote]
taipeitimes.com/News/front/a … 03543198/1[/quote]
Moving on… 
Really? What about the aborigines whose land the Chinese are occupying? The Philippine, Vietnamese, Thai, Indonesian, Malaysian, Japanese, white and black residents?
Its just pure, ignorant Chinese racism. That’s what it is.[/quote]
YEah sadly the aboriginals count about as much as the indians (I mean American Indian here) count in America .
But Taiwan is basically Asian so anyone not Asian would stand out.
ITs getting better. I used to be called TOK PEE AH< everywhere I went, and i resented that.[/quote]
Um Tommy, you DO know:
-Asia is big.
-Aborigines are Asians
-Filipinos are Asians
-Malaysians are Asians
-Vietnamese are Asians
And all are victims of discrimination in Taiwan.
You mean:
“Anyone not Chinese would stand out.”
Cmon, be the good guy I know you are (from the sweet posts I see) and admit you did. Since all of the above are “Asian”, yet “stand out” and are victims of discrimination here.
[quote=“buzzkill1”]
I’ve witnessed the American version of “laowai” at home towards black people, although not on the same scale. “I use to work with a black guy who such and such…,” “I have a black friend who went to…,” as an example. No, i didn’t need to know he was black to catch the main point. Are these people racist? I don’t think so. I can’t remember hearing them saying negative things about black people [/quote]
Whether they say anything negative about black people has nothing to do with wether they are racist or not. Are those people racist? Possibly. Is their behavior racist? Definitely.
I think we all know that Taiwanese tend to look favorably upon Japanese nationals and nationals of western nations. They tend to NOT look favorably upon nationals of the Philippines, or SE Asian countries. And tend not to look favorably on black people, unless they are well educated Americans or Europeans, then they might give them a second assessment.
Taiwanese look down upon their own aborigines, even though most Taiwanese have at least some aboriginal blood. They tend to look down on the current nationals of the PRC as well.
So basically except for Americans, Canadians and Western nationals (preferably not black or brown), or Japanese, they pretty much look down on everyone.
They also tend to look either down or up on other taiwanese.
Are TAiwanese racially aware? You betcha. Are they racist? Yes, they are. It is only the extent of how it affects you personally that AFFECTS YOU PERSONALLY.
So there, no secret. No hiding of cats in bags.
[quote=“tommy525”]I think we all know that Taiwanese tend to look favorably upon Japanese nationals and nationals of western nations. They tend to NOT look favorably upon nationals of the Philippines, or SE Asian countries. And tend not to look favorably on black people, unless they are well educated Americans or Europeans, then they might give them a second assessment.
Taiwanese look down upon their own aborigines, even though most Taiwanese have at least some aboriginal blood. They tend to look down on the current nationals of the PRC as well.
So basically except for Americans, Canadians and Western nationals (preferably not black or brown), or Japanese, they pretty much look down on everyone.
They also tend to look either down or up on other taiwanese.
Are TAiwanese racially aware? You betcha. Are they racist? Yes, they are. It is only the extent of how it affects you personally that AFFECTS YOU PERSONALLY.
So there, no secret. No hiding of cats in bags.[/quote]
Nice post :bravo: