Bin or Bing in bin(g)lang, betel nut?

That’s funny that the moderators corrected my spelling. Why did you change Bing to Bin? Is Betelnut below the people in Taipei or something?

That would have been done by the site’s autocorrect function (or whatever it is the techies call it). “Binlang” is the correct pinyin romanization, and the sexy xiaojies who sell it are “binlang babes”.

Bing is the correct pinyin spelling. Not Bin. I am sure of it The tongue goes back like “Biyin” not like “been”. The character is almost identical to “bing” in “Bing guan.” In Chinese Medicine the herb is used to kill parasites. Semen Arecae Catechu.

Here’s what my books say:

ABC Comprehensive: bing1lang2, bin1lang2 (both)
Hanyu Da Zidian (TWN ed of a PRC tome): bing
Far East CED (TWN source): bin

Therefore it would appear that[color=blue] the descriptive answer is BOTH. [/color]

Now what should it be, prescriptively? Based on the right-side phonetic 賓 bin, which is not in any compounds read bing AFAIK, I presume it should be read bin. But given that both pronunciations are well established and recorded in authoritative dictionaries, I would recommend deleting this entry from the autocorrect goblin.

Thanks for that, DB. I’ve deleted it! :notworthy:

Thanks for that, DB. I’ve deleted it! :notworthy:[/quote]
Vindicated at last!

You mean binlang xishi, not binglang xishi…[/quote]
:wink:

Thanks for that, DB. I’ve deleted it! :notworthy:[/quote]
Vindicated at last!

You mean binlang xishi, not binglang xishi…[/quote]
:wink:[/quote]
2004! Yikes! What other grudges have you been harboring all this time, Joe? :astonished: Anyway, you were still wrong with the “shishi”. :raspberry:

Thanks for that, DB. I’ve deleted it! :notworthy:[/quote]
Vindicated at last!

You mean binlang xishi, not binglang xishi…[/quote]
:wink:[/quote]
2004! Yikes! What other grudges have you been harboring all this time, Joe? :astonished:[/quote]It wasn’t a grudge till I found out from this thread that I was right all along! (At least equally as right as you).

I feel liberated now. The demons of past spelling-related trauma have been exorcised.

[quote=“Maoman”]Anyway, you were still wrong with the “shishi”. :raspberry:[/quote]:s

[quote=“Dragonbones”]Here’s what my books say:

ABC Comprehensive: bing1lang2, bin1lang2 (both)
Hanyu Da Zidian (TWN ed of a PRC tome): bing
Far East CED (TWN source): bin

Therefore it would appear that[color=blue] the descriptive answer is BOTH. [/color]

Now what should it be, prescriptively? Based on the right-side phonetic 賓 bin, which is not in any compounds read bing AFAIK, I presume it should be read bin. But given that both pronunciations are well established and recorded in authoritative dictionaries, I would recommend deleting this entry from the autocorrect goblin.[/quote]

How interesting! That would perhaps explain why I’ve often seen it written with 兵 as the right-side phonetic in place of 賓 on the roughly scrawled signs of binlang sellers. I had just thought it was an illiteracy, but perhaps it is a correct alternative form after all (though I can’t find it in my dictionaries).

Sure you didn’t see [color=red]宀[/color] + 兵 as the phonetic?

The HYDZD p551 has

bing1 listed in brackets next to

, implying it is an alternate graphic form. This dictionary lists a wide variety of alternate and obsolete forms, many of them ‘incorrect’ (i.e., it is a lexicographically descriptive, not prescriptive, compendium), FWIW. Perhaps alternate form, with its bing1 phonetic, weakens my prescriptive comment earlier, but it supports my statement that both pronunciations exist.

Dear all,

Unicode’s Unihan:

http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=68B9&useutf8=false

the areca-nut; the betel-nut

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

But Taiwan’s Ministry of Education says it’s ‘bin’.

dict.moe.gov.tw/cgi-bin/dict/Get … ng=%C2b%B7}&GraphicWord=yes

This is the Guoyu standard.

It would appear, from various dictionaries, that both pronunciations are correct although bin1 tends to be listed as the primary or more common pronunciation.

Cool! I learn something new every day. (I overlooked this graph, even though it’s the PRC’s standard simplified form. :doh: ) Now we have three written forms so far, 檳 槟 梹, which type as bin1, bing1 and bin1 on my IME. My HYDZD p. 511b gives a pronunciation of bing1 for 梹 :idunno:

[quote=“Feiren”]But Taiwan’s Ministry of Education says it’s ‘bin’.

dict.moe.gov.tw/cgi-bin/dict/Get … ng=%C2b%B7}&GraphicWord=yes

This is the Guoyu standard.[/quote]

Actually, Taiwan’s MOE says it is both:

140.111.34.46/cgi-bin/dict/GetCo … tring=%C2b

[quote=“Dragonbones”][quote=“Kobo-Daishi”]

[/quote]
Cool! I learn something new every day. (I overlooked this graph, even though it’s the PRC’s standard simplified form. :doh:
Now we have three written forms so far, 檳 槟 梹, which type as bin1, bing1 and bin1 on my IME.[/quote]
I don’t think that 梹 is the PRC’s standard simplified form. According to HYDZD, 槟 is the simplified form of 檳 while 梹 is simply an alternate character for 檳. This is also confirmed in www.chineselanguage.org where it states that 槟 is "

簡化" while 梹 is "同

".

I believe that 梹 is not part of the official simplified character set. After all, 檳 = 槟 = 梹, so it makes sense to choose only 1 character.

HYDZD only provides putonghua standard pronunciations, thus, it is narrower than the Guoyu standard which tends to include more variations. If the character is written as 檳, it makes sense to pronounce it as bin1 due to the right side phonetic 賓. But since bing1 is also a traditionally acceptable pronunciation and the fact that the character has been simplified to become 槟 with a 兵 phonetic component, then it follows that putonghua standardized the pronunciation as bing1 over bin1.

So the conclusion is this. Putonghua standard is bing1. Guoyu standard is bin1 or bing1 with bin1 being favoured.

[quote=“sjcma”]I don’t think that 梹 is the PRC’s standard simplified form. According to HYDZD, 槟 is the simplified form of 檳 while 梹 is simply an alternate character for 檳… I believe that 梹 is not part of the official simplified character set. After all, 檳 = 槟 = 梹, so it makes sense to choose only 1 character.
[/quote]

Ok, I’m still learning. :laughing: I had just cracked open a PRC dictionary which gave only 梹 as the simplified form and assumed it was standard. :idunno:

Now I’ve opened another PRC dictionary and it lists 槟 as the simplified, with 檳 and 梹 as alternate forms in parentheses. You’d think you could get a straight answer, ya know?

:loco: :help:

Dear all,

According to the R.O.C’s Ministry of Education’s (中華民國教育部) Dictionary of Character Variants (異體字字典) there are two more variants:

and

http://140.111.1.40/yitia/fra/fra02038.htm

The Unicode’s Unihan database includes the second of these two characters but not the first one.

Here is the link to that character’s page:

http://www.unicode.org/cgi-bin/GetUnihanData.pl?codepoint=3BFD&useutf8=false

I’m not able to view the character in my browser. Since this is a later addition to the Unicode Standard and many of the older Unicode fonts don’t reach up to these later codepoints to include this character.

I guess they will eventually get to including the other variant as well.

On the Internet quite a few mainland sites have dictionaries that utilize the Xinhua Zidian (Xinhua Dictionary) as their source material.

Here is the entry that they have:

槟1

bīn
另見bīng(槟榔)
槟樹
bīnshù
[Chinese sweet gum] 枫香
槟子
bīnzi
(1)
[malus]
(2)
槟子树,一种苹果树。果实红色,熟后转紫,个小,味酸甜带涩
(3)
槟子树结的果实
槟2

bīng
另见 bīn
槟榔
bīnglɑng
(1)
[betel palm]∶一种常绿乔木(Areca cathecu),树干很高,羽状复叶。果实可以吃,也供药用,能助消化,又有驱除绦虫的作用。生长在热带地方
(2)
[betel nut]∶这种植物的果实
槟1
(檳)
bīn ㄅㄧㄣˉ
〔~子〕苹果属中的一种,比苹果小,熟的时候紫红色,味酸甜,略有点涩。
郑码:FWPO,U:69DF,GBK:E9C4
笔画数:14,部首:木,笔顺编号:12344453212134
槟2
(檳)
bīng ㄅㄧㄥˉ
〔~榔〕a.常绿乔木,生长在热带,果实可食,亦可入药;
篆体:槟
五笔码:sprw

XXXXXX

I know it all looks like a jumble but they have both readings and strangely bing1 is the one they have for the character combination for binlang.

Unless they mean that the readings are interchangeable. Or are there two trees called 槟.

Here is the link to one of the sites that hosts the Xinhua Dictionary:

http://www.wendian.com.cn/dict/421.html

For what it’s worth, “Chinese Characters” by Dr. Leon Wieger has bing1 for 梹. Actually ping1 since the book uses Wade-Giles for Romanization and that’s bing1 in Hanyu Pinyin. And yes they use the variant with “soldier” to the right.

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.

Thanks as always for the excellent info, Kobo-Daishi! :slight_smile:

I wouldn’t put too much stock in anything from Wieger in terms of etymology, but as a way to date (to at least as early as 1915) the pronunciation and character usage, that’s of some value. At least that tells us 梹 predates the late 20th century Taiwanese betel nut sellers. :laughing:

The Chinese word originates from Malay “pinang”, so I hear. This, among other things, would lead me to choose “binlang” over “binglang”.