The line between “investing” and “gambling” is sometimes rather blurry.
Those who successfully gambled will tell you they made their money from an investment. And those with an failed investment will be told that it was a gamble from the beginning.
1 Like
Yes i wanted to buy Tesla stock but the trillion dollar price tag put me off. 
4 Likes
And when you make money, even if it took you years, they say you were lucky.
1 Like
Yes and no. If we’re talking about trying to time the market, “is it a good time to invest” without understanding the business or fund you’re investing in, then I think it’s gambling regardless of whether you win or lose.
But I think Bitcoin is gambling in all cases as its value is purely speculative and not backed by any government, business, asset, or anything of value. It’s like a huge Ponzi scheme. I say this as a software engineer who understands how the blockchain works.
What gives Bitcoin value, IMHO, is that by now, enough people seem to believe that it will always have value. I like the comparison of Bitcoin being “digital gold”.
And also there: It’s a fine line between adding some gold to a portfolio (for whatever reason) and going all in because one assumes that all other assets will soon lose their values. That’s when it starts becoming more of a gamble.
1 Like
Right. The best way to invest in stocks is only investing a small portion of your assets. I don’t know if there are people who invest everything they have on stocks. I would never do that. I always keep in my mind about 7 sources of income. They are investments, properties, job, royalties, business, interest rates, etc. I always think about properties, business, interest rates, paid jobs and royalties. I try these 5.
That’s a biased generalization. Some of us made a fair bit in the stock market and if you have a long-term horizon and can accept some volatility the S&P500 has been an excellent investment historically.
1 Like
Good! People have different ways to invest on their sources of income. If it works to some people, it is fine.
My mother called her agent because she was worried her monthly payouts would be affected by the recent dip. The agent said the only risk now was dying and your kids inheriting less. No matter the ups and downs people invested long term are going to be fine.
You say this as if it takes some kind of gigabrain software engineer to figure out how a blockchain works. The value of bitcoin lies not in its complexity but in its simplicity, dependability, and resilience. A solution to the Byzantine General’s problem is extremely valuable – and being able to make an electronic P2P payment is an extraordinary thing.
The fact that you think an asset needs a government’s approval or company CEO’s endorsement to have value is kind of laughable IMO. But each year, more and more companies are getting into the space, with established financial companies buying stakes in crypto exchanges, tech and retail companies supporting crypto payments, local and national governments building bitcoin funds, and even heavyweights like Intel getting directly involved by developing mining chips.
If there was no value, why would anyone bother?
1 Like
Because you can clearly make money in activities around it, even if it’s not nearly as clear the crypto itself has value.
China’s action against bitcoin miners had a profound impact on bitcoin’s value. Ultimately, in a world where governments have achieved a surprising level of control over what ought to be a private, fault-tolerant network, the value of a currency that depends upon the functioning of that network can be wiped out whenever the government chooses to do so.
This is literally what makes it vapour/Ponzi. The only way you win is if other people buy in after you and prop up its price. But at the end someone will be left holding the bag.
Then you simply failed to understand. A currency backed by a government isn’t valuable because I “need a government’s approval”, it’s because the currency is backed by something resilient and powerful. The US dollar is backed by the most successful military and society on the planet. If American society collapses, then life as we know it is well and truly fucked and we’re probably in survival mode.
Likewise, a stock investment isn’t valuable because you need a company CEO’s approval, that’s a ridiculous accusation. It’s because a stock represents ownership in an actual real life business. That business has assets, employees, customers, and generates income. Perhaps reliably so for decades or centuries. Value. Investment.
Bitcoin isn’t backed by anything. Not by a country, not by a business, not by a physical asset or commodity. You see that as its benefit, I see that as its fatal flaw. It only has the network of miners, which you see as resilient, I see as susceptible to attack when countries legally ban mining activity (for being a horrendous waste of energy and contributing to climate change), or through takeover by a hostile mining pool or hostile nation state. We really have seen nothing yet of the power that governments have to disrupt and destroy cryptocurrencies.
Not to mention the fact that it utterly fails at being used as an actual currency — its price too volatile, transactions are way too slow, fees are way too high, etc. These problems are so bad that most transaction activity doesn’t actually happen on chain. At this point in its lifetime I think when you see people so strongly defending BTC you first need to ask them how personally invested they are in it.
5 Likes
It is until huge earthquake, or Chinese invasion. What do you think a house in Kyiv is worth right now? 
One benefit of BTC is that you can take it anywhere in the world. Just remember the passphrase and you have access.
I think this is right. But really, even gold isn’t really a “true” store of value. It’s only worth something because people believe it’s worth something. Does that make it a Ponzi scheme too? Gold is reasonably useful in some manufacturing, but compared to lots of other materials it isn’t that special or essential. It’s very stable (chemically) which is a nice advantage. But in a true SHTF scenario, the government isn’t coming knocking at your door and offering to buy your little gold bars from the safe, lol. But gold works because people believe it works.
So basically, if gold can be a store of value, why not BTC? BTC also has some advantages over gold. Gold is heavy as hell. You can (physically) lose it. It can be stolen. You can’t travel with much gold - it can get seized as customs. It’s also difficult to transfer to others. BTC can be broken into smaller denominations more easily. You actually can’t “lose” it or have it stolen unless you forget your passphrase. You can transfer it easily enough, though it’s not the perfect network. You can also travel with it, with just words stored in your head.
A lot of people don’t take possession of their gold - they just “invest” in the price of it or have the bank/mint store it. This would be like keeping BTC on an exchange. But BTC you also have the option of taking 100% custody.
So IMO, BTC has a reasonable place in anybody’s investment portfolio. If you go “all in” on crypto, you’re a moron IMO. But I do believe that BTC, ETH and a couple of others do solve real-world problems and will be around for the long-term.
1 Like
You don’t need necessary to invest only on properties in Taiwan. You can buy properties in Western countries, too. In Taiwan, I only have 2 apartments. I rent them and I live in a rented studio. Of course, I didn’t spend all I have on those 2 apartments. Only 30% of my assets. If China really invades here, I might have already earned a sum from the rent. So, the loss will not be that much. About Earthquake, I have those 2 properties for 7 years. They are still there.
1 Like
Where did the money come from to buy those apartments ?
1 Like
Do you expect me to say “My grandparents”? hehe. I am almost 40 years old. I started working since I was 16. I have my online store for more than 10 years and worked in hourly paid jobs. I bought the apartments that were in foreclosure. So, they were cheap comparing to the market. The location is not in Taipei. So, they are not so expensive. I also did loan and paid off. If you think the money came from my grandparents, it is fine. It is not illegal.
So where did the deposit money come from ? just curious。 . Especially as you have two of them. You say they are 30% of your assets but you work hourly rates. I think there’s something you aren’t sharing.
I started working when I was 13, 16 is so late.
1 Like
I think you are questioning too much about my assets. It is personal, I guess. Why would I share all the details with you? Share yours first. Take a picture of your bank statement and post here.
Hourly rate is one source of my income. Would you stop working on something you like just because you have some capital or assets? I don’t do that. If you read my other threads, I already said that I choose at least 4 sources of income. How about you? What do you do? It is not hard for people to buy a home. Not that hard as you think.