Brexit


#1181

I want to see a hard Brexit so I hope there won’t be a second referendum.


#1182

How comes ?


#1183

I don’t think there is any need for a third referendum should a snap election be called. The two main parties just need to be clear where they stand on EU membership (basically the Labour Party are going to have to come out of the closet and state they want to remain - Corbyn won’t like it, but that’s life). Voters can then choose how important a single issue is to them when they place their cross. That’s parliamentary democracy.

It’s becoming clear that some kind of soft Brexit isn’t a possibility. It’s remain or hard Brexit - voters are going to have to decide whether they want to take the risk.


#1184

First and foremost I just want pounds to be really really weak so my life in London would be a lot cheaper :rofl:. (Sorry I have zero attachment to this country)

On a more serious note. A second referendum would make a complete mockery of UK’s democratic system. So if the second referendum doesn’t go well, would there be a third? A fourth? Are you planning on doing that everytime you don’t like the outcome of an election?


#1185

I think the first vote already did that though.


#1186

You stole my line!


#1187

They obviously did not vote on anything.
If they did, then why are they still in the EU?
If they voted for a hard Brexit, then they could have left 2 years ago and save the negotiations.
They voted on cofefe, someone bloobered out some sounds and people voted on it.
Now where everyone understands what these words meant, it’s supposedly undemocratic to vote. Democracy is like science, it needs to review itself over and over again.


#1188

You’ve got May, a remainer, arguing for a hard Brexit or No Deal at this stage. She even rushed to activate article 50 and ruled out all the best options at the start. She’s allied with the DUP, who represent a statelet which actually voted to stay in the EU, but the DUP want to drag it out of the EU. She now demands respect for trying to break up EU unity, weaken it’s four freedoms and allying with the extremists such as Orban. What a terrible negotiator. And yet she’s seen as the strong and stable one compared to Bojo and Friends.
The main opposition is almost as chaotic.
It’s pretty bizarre !


#1189

Yea its like no one is actually in it for the greater good - with the possible exception of May - all just scrapping over bits. No united front whatsoever.


#1190

You know, you might have a machine that has a problem and you call someone in to fix it. At what point does it become apparent they don’t know what the hell they are doing and you say “step away, leave it alone”?


#1191

Probably when it blows up.


#1192

There’s still time, I would have still like to have seen UK leave, but from what I have seen this leadership shouldn’t be trusted with a butter knife.

There is no seriousness in leave, they are talking about the NI border 2 years after the vote. They could have put up a virtual border two weeks after the vote, cameras and wifi and exit and entry points. Two years later they are scratching their heads.

If you are going to attempt a dive from a high board you commit, if you don’t have that confidence you have no place attempting such a move.


#1193

Let’s play some scenarios through.
The biggest problem is Northern Ireland.
The EU brought peace to that part of the UK and peace on your own territory worth much more than the EU can ever take away from you.
Teresa May claims we can trust her and there is no need for a border between the EU and Northern Ireland. Sorry, first of all, I don’t trust her and most importantly I can’t trust who ever runs the show in the future.
If you have a border between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, then there is a chance that Northern Ireland will benefit from the EU and at one point says bye bye UK.
If the EU agrees to any of her proposals, the EU will be finished. If you get a hard border in Northern Ireland this could lead to war on your own territory, very inconvenient, life threatening and expensive.


#1194

Maybe you would like to get my point of view from someone more articulate than myself/me.


#1195

the conclusion from this and events in the US is that career politicians on both sides of the aisle are useless. If they had one term (two at most) and had to go back to living like the common people they wouldn’t FUQ over the common people so arbitrarily.


#1196

Do you really think it’s that easy, that locals would have gone along with your virtual border plan in NI even before you left ? That’s pretty naive.
Even many unionist farmers on the border don’t want a border!


#1197

They actually did put up a virtual-virtual border: they imagined a virtual border in their heads only, so its virtual-virtual.


#1198

Hand wavey something over there something something cameras something something easy peasy lemon squeeze far away hills.


#1199

Clowns.
Of course May herself endorsed Remain.

The best solution is for our country to be reunited. We will welcome our unionist brethren and allow them to continue with their venerable traditions, including annual ethnic hatred, I mean pride parades.

It will happen eventually. They can maintain their British citizenship. They haven’t called a border poll as it’s not the right thing to do for a lot of reasons. But I can see a border poll sooner than later.


#1200

It IS that easy. If the Government decided to do so. I have seen a lot worse from the UK government when they are determined to do so, people protesting their houses being demolished to make way for a motorway for example.

But don’t confuse easy with popular. Of course it would be widely unpopular.

Don’t confuse what I’m saying with actually advocating a hard border, I would be all for unifying Ireland instead of a hard border if that’s what people want.

It’s the engineer in me that annoyed when people say “impossible” or “can’t be done”, especially it is stupid bullshit (the human factor is not stupid bullshit, Im talking about the feasibility of actually doing it). There was a pretty damn hard border between NI and Ireland during WWII, since as I’m sure you know Ireland was a neutral country and NI was a training ground for allied troupes.

And before you say it, it was pretty horrendous with armed soldiers everywhere. Today with 21st century technology you could do away with the soldiers. But don’t tell me it can’t be done, because it can and has been done and could be done again 100 different ways.