Brexit


#1801

You are quite correct BJ, in that is a mess. I would say that it is also bad for the EU. The UK had the “final say” Referendum . The UK also has a General Election that voted in a Party , supposedly committed to leaving the EU. The voters have been ignored twice . 3rd time lucky ?
Whether you disagree with Brexit or not , those who voted to leave have been played. The fact that it is complex or inconvenient, is a point , but is another issue .


#1802

Have they really been ignored though ?
It seems that the parliament is trying to find a way for Brexit to work after many of the visions of a painless glorious exit have long gone up in smoke and voters have more time to understand implications of said vote.


#1803

We understood exactly what we voted for. That is smoke and mirrors put up by remainers desperate to reverse the vote. We all knew what we wanted and that was signing article 50. And that is certainly true for most of the working class. The vote was overwhelmingly in favor of leaving the EU and triggering Article 50. Then if you took out the votes from London it was a landslide. The majority of labour voters voted out. The EU will collapse if the UK goes hard Brexit. They don’t get their billions of British money and will face retaliatory tariffs on their German cars if they wish for a trade war. The UK is much culturally closer to the US than Europe. The UK when it joined never wanted such things as an EU army or envisioned the massive increase in EU member states.
check this out for perspective


#1804

How much does the UK receive or give to the EU
https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/


#1805

Wait, hold on a second.

Leave: 17,410,742 or 51.89%
Remain 16,141,241 or 48.11

A difference of 3 and a half percent, decisive yes, hardly overwhelming.

The population of London is 8.136 million, which equates to about 12% of the population. Why would you take out the London vote unless you are trying to manipulate the statistics?

Did they? Can you back that up with facts? I thought labour took the position of remain, and Scotland, a traditional Labour area voted to remain.


#1806

Actually most SNP voters rather than labor voters voted to remain in Scotland.
https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservative-and-labour-constituencies-vote-leave-eu-referendum/
And personally I wish socialist Scotland would vote leave the UK too.


#1807

I had read that. There are lies, damm lies and then there are statistics. I remember back before SNP was a significant vote, just about all of Scotland was reliably Labour, so I see Scotland voting remain and think Labour.

But you bring up a good point, by that measure most of the north of England should have voted remain and it doesn’t, its like just at the Scottish border is the switch.

And NI too I imagine. Not going to be much of the UK left at this rate.


#1808

I’m all for small local government directly accountable to the people as compared to a large body of bureaucrats many who are unelected to their positions.


#1809

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape. He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:

  • Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
  • Why the early bird gets the worm;
  • Life isn’t always fair;
  • And maybe it was my fault.
    Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don’t spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge).
    His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.
    Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children. It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.
    Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.
    Common Sense took a beating when you couldn’t defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.
    Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.
    Common Sense was preceded in death,
    -by his parents, Truth and Trust,
    -by his wife, Discretion,
    -by his daughter, Responsibility,
    -and by his son, Reason.
    He is survived by his 5 stepbrothers;
  • I Know My Rights
  • I Want It Now
  • Someone Else Is To Blame
  • I’m A Victim
  • Pay me for Doing Nothing
    Not many attended his funeral because so few realized he was gone.
    If you still remember him, pass this on. If not, join the majority and do nothing.

#1810

nah, a lot of the working class would change their vote if they had to chance to do it again. brexit has been shown up as the sham it always was and i think thats clear for most people now.


#1811

How so? Example ? Would you accept it if you lost twice ?


#1812

The other way around seems a lot more likely.
You think NI and Scotland will stably remain in the UK after such an event ?

You think England and Wales won’t suffer major job losses…?


#1813

Baldrick at it again…

Brexit Secretary

“If we don’t have a deal, then we should leave with no deal,” he said. "That’s always been my position. We shouldn’t be afraid to leave with no deal.


#1814

I voted remain yet I hope we leave! I am not happy being run by the bankers in Brussels… bad enough being run by the twats who were elected


#1815

Short term yes, but long term England and beautiful Wales will be the winners when the EU implodes. The UK exit will just hasten its demise.


#1816

The Referendum Rules are straightforward . There is no requirement on either side for a large majority . A Majority of 1 is enough. Not sure what the relevance is of your comment ? It was made quite clear to all voters at the time .

"Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.’

From the Labour Party Manifesto
“Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.”
So no. At least that’s the promise …but all MP’s are failing miserably to uphold their promises.
Cameron…“I will stay and see Brexit delivered , if that is what the people decide” Fail.

There is great anger building and whilst serious Crime is rising ( some say due to reduced Police resources ), people are being visited for expressing the view that MP’s are a useless on Brexit and should be dragged out of their offices to see the reality on the streets…watch this gem.

Why would you take out the London vote unless you are trying to manipulate the statistics?
Well it was not taken out of the voting , but the point was rather similar to the USA , where taking out the results of one State , eg California, would have totally changed the results of the public majority. Thank God for the Electoral College system to balance it out.
Resentment is building and Lawful rebellion is allowed in the UK…however the Government will claim it is unlawful , I suspect .

1.There was a Brexit Vote to Leave .
2. The Conservatives were elected again, with a Manifesto that promised to deliver said Brexit.
3. Parliament voted to activate Article 50 , which gave a Leave date . Deal or no deal .

Remainers, EU and MP’s have been determined to make Brexit fail.
I only wish that a strong Leader was in place to deliver it so that everyone can get on with it . May promised that . She failed and lied .

The issues like the backstop existed at the start of the negotiations , but as with many things , were brushed aside , partly due to the DUP influence, partly due to intransigence from the EU. Switzerland managed it …I am sure there are solutions. They are much more difficult now , with so little time left

The outcome will be that the EU grants more time and we bumble along until a General Election , when Labour will get in and break their Manifesto pledge and try to remain in the EU . Probably have another Referendum …who knows.
As BJ states , it is a complete mess , that benefits nobody (except politicians maybe ).


#1817


#1818

You aren’t run by bankers in Brussels.

In fact the EU and it’s finance system was influenced largely by the UK, which benefits massively by passporting and which also received many opt outs including maintaining the GBP.

By leaving this system which the UK helped to create (Maggie Thatcher being a proponent ) it’s not exactly escaping anything foreign.


#1819

Did spellcheck correct that for you ?:joy:


#1820

Brussels has a lot of Brits working there. Fact.

I don’t know how the whole meme took off that the UK wasn’t involved in the EU Parliament and Commission. Total tosh.