Canada's dirty secret war in Iraq: the cat is out of the bag

Canadians, like the rest of the world, would prefer to discuss American politics than their own. Ask any Canadian if they know about their involvement in Iraq - they will deny that they have any Canadians there at all.
For a real laugh, just see what happens if the Iraq war starts to go well - then suddenly Canadian Brigadier General Walt Natynczyk will be a household name, and every Canadian will be triumphing how he turned the war around all by himself.

Remember when Canadians were bragging about “kicking ass” in Afghanistan? Ever wonder why you haven’t heard about that lately? Their soldiers recently got accused of being responsible for thousands of civilian deaths, and the torture allegations just keep coming. You can kind of judge how badly Canada is doing by the amount of Bush-Bashing they engage in to make themselves feel better.

Who is is this chap, your uncle?
And for the record, I certainly will tell him anything at all on my mind, next time i run into one of the brass such as his kind at Denny’s…
Just as I’ve always done. In fact the higher the rank, the more the pleasure in the lambaste.

“Daydream Believer…”
:liar:

Who is is this chap, your uncle?
[/quote]

He’s a pretty cool guy.

Canada’s strange position on Iraq
By: Reuel S. Amdur
ehmac.ca/everything-else-eh/ … -iraq.html

Of an earlier prime minister, Mackenzie King, the Canadian poet and philosopher F.R. Scott wrote: “Do nothing by halves/ Which can be done by quarters.” King was a master of obfuscation, a man who had mastered the ability to confuse.

In this same spirit, former prime minister Jean Chrétien publicly declared that Canada would be staying out of Iraq. As he spoke, he was allowing Canadian troops to be inserted into U.S. and British contingents.

Shortly after, one was wounded by a grenade. “As well, Canadian warships in the Persian Gulf were escorting U.S. supply vessels carrying equipment and ammunition for the war.”

Wikipedia states that [color=red]Canadian air force personnel took part in combat missions, and that 40 to 50 Canadian personnel took part in the invasion.[/color]

Some 1,300 Canadians served on frigates in the Persian Gulf under Canadian Commodore Roger Girouard, to protect aircraft carriers and escort British and American ships bringing men and supplies to Kuwait for action in Iraq.

When the matter of Canadian troops in Iraq was raised in Parliament April 4, 2003, Chrétien replied, no doubt with fingers crossed, that “It’s possible, but they are not in combat roles.” The Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) interviewed Lieutenant Colonel Ronnie McCourt in Doha, who said pointedly that [color=red]“they are in combat[/color].”

More recently, the current Prime Minister Stephen Harper acknowledged in the Associated Press (March 26, 2006) that “an unspecified number of Canadians have been embedded with coalition forces since the beginning of the war.”

[color=red]The most bizarre twist of this shell game came in 2004, when Canadian Major General Walt Natynczyk was made number two in command of forces in Iraq.[/color]

On January 24, 2006, Governor General Michaëlle Jean awarded him the Meritorious Service Cross.

She recognized Natynczyk "for his outstanding leadership and professionalism while deployed as Deputy Commanding General of the Multi-National Corps during Operation Iraqi Freedom

"From January 2004 to January 2005, Major General Natynczyk led the Corps’ 10 separate brigades, consisting of more than 35,000 soldiers stationed throughout the Iraq Theater of Operations. He also oversaw planning and execution of all Corps level combat support and combat service support operations.

“His pivotal role in the development of numerous plans and operations resulted in a tremendous contribution by the Multi-National Corps to Operation IRAQI FREEDOM, and has brought great credit to the Canadian Forces and to Canada.”

Outgoing UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan called the Iraqi invasion illegal. That would make Canada an accomplice to a crime. One recalls the old saw about being a little bit pregnant. Yet, the Canadian media consistently refer to the fact that Canada has stayed out of the war, and Canadians generally are ignorant of Canada’s involvement.

When this commentator contacted the Defense Department and the office of Gordon O’Connor, the minister, as to the current number of Canadian troops in Iraq, these sources simply stonewalled.
arabamericannews.com/news…articleid=7322

Reuel Amdur is a Jewish columnist at the Arab American news.

I am deeply disgusted that [color=red]Canada’s general is number two in Iraq while we pretend we are not involved.[/color]
Please contact your MP, the PM, and the Minister of Defense and tell them to end Canda’s involvement in this conflict and to stop lying to the Canadian people.

You should be proud of him, eh? He got a medal.

Oh, how cute! What a swell guy!

But it’s not so bad, look how much money Canada is making off of selling toys like these:

I’m sure this is one of them “green” electric cars, right?

Wheeeeeee! :astonished:

And here’s the new bad boy on the block:
antiwar.com/orig/elmer.php?articleid=12256
January 24, 2008
Canadian General Takes Senior Command Role in Iraq
by Jon Elmer

with Anthony Fenton

VANCOUVER - Despite the government’s official position abstaining from combat in Iraq, Canada has dispatched yet another top general to the command group overseeing day-to-day operations for the US-led occupation and counterinsurgency war.

Brigadier-General Nicolas Matern, a Special Forces officer and former commander of Canada’s elite counterterrorism unit, will serve as deputy to Lt. Gen. Lloyd Austin III, incoming commander of the 170,000-strong Multi National Corps-Iraq beginning in mid-February.

Officials at Fort Bragg confirmed that Matern has already been deployed to Iraq, [color=red]though no official statement has been made by Canadian officials.[/color]

[color=cyan]GEE, YOU’RE NOT TRYING TO KEEP THIS A SECRET OR ANYTHING, ARE YOU???[/color]

There are also economic interests in Iraq itself. [color=red]The April 2007 Iraq Reconstruction Report lists Canada as the fourth largest importer of Iraqi oil. Industry Canada records that total Canadian imports from Iraq have risen from 1.06 billion dollars in 2002 to 1.61 billion dollars in 2006, making Iraq second only to Saudi Arabia as a Middle Eastern source for Canadian imports.[/color]

To this end, Matern’s Special Forces background is seen as an asset. “He comes in with a unique set of skills,” Col. Bill Buckner of the 18th Airborne told the Ottawa Citizen. “We’re the home of the airborne and the special operating forces, so he fits in very nicely to this warrior ethos we have here.”

[color=cyan]Well, at least the guy has a "warrior ethos. A nice typical canadian trait[/color] :laughing:

Matern was a commander in the secretive commando unit,…
[color=cyan]OOh, secretive, they conspiracy troofers should jump right in, then![/color]

Joint Task Force-2, before being promoted to deputy commander of the newly created Canadian Special Operations Forces Command.

Canada’s most important foreign policy documents list Iraq, along with Afghanistan, Haiti, Sudan, and Israel-Palestine, as areas of “strategic priority.”

Geez trebuchet, Canadians soldiers serving in Iraq is not a secret. In fact, it’s news. The Jan 18 edition of the leading newspaper in the nation’s capital carried the story: Ex-JTF2 commander takes leading role in Iraq.

As with Natynczyk, these are soldiers serving in an on-going exchange program that’s decades old. When serving in the exchange program, Canadian soldiers are effectively American soldiers and are under the direct command of the US military. Similarly, American soldiers serving in the Canadian military under the exchange program are directly under Canadian command.

Thus, any Canadian soldier serving in Iraq is a result of the decision of the American military. The Canadian Gov’t has no hand in such decisions. The American military also do not gain any extra soldiers from sending Canadians to Iraq. Exchanges are done one a one-for-one basis with soldiers of similar ranks. For every soldier the US receives from Canada, it loses one of the same rank to Canada.

What’s the big deal?


Keep this quiet, eh? Its a secret, eh?

:laughing: :bravo:

Well, at least it gives you a little more to be proud of that this…

[quote=“trebuchet”]Well, at least it gives you a little more to be proud of that this…

[/quote]

:liar: What?
Your vast knowledge of the CF is of such complete & utter figments, that it leads to a great nefarious precarious intrusion upon not only common sense, but against the bounds of acceptable behaviour.
I suppose it would be acceptable, in a limp-wristed hackered sort of fashion, to talk negatively about what the crux of the biscuit is, and not perhaps what it should be, regarding the CF honoring it’s overseas commitments. I’ve done it myself, many a time, before, during & since service. Why are we deployed here, here, & here?; and in what fashion,;and with what goals/objectives?
These are questions even a civilian is more than entitled to posit, and usually they do so well after the bloody bleeding obvious fact… :sick: :wanker:
However, it’s more than a bit underhanded to single out individual members of the CF, of whatever rank, for carrying out one of the aforementioned commitments.

Yeah…what he said.
That is a proud member of the Newfie Special Operations Coastal Force showing their latest .50 cal Ma Duece Molsons Delivery Vehicle. Note the eco/green electric motor for both silent operations and a non-carbon footprint.

[quote=“sjcma”] The American military also do not gain any extra soldiers from sending Canadians to Iraq. Exchanges are done one a one-for-one basis with soldiers of similar ranks. For every soldier the US receives from Canada, it loses one of the same rank to Canada.
[/quote]

Where do these American chaps who get “lost” to Canadian forces go? The great white north?

[quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“trebuchet”]Well, at least it gives you a little more to be proud of that this…

[/quote]

:liar: What?
Your vast knowledge of the CF is of such complete & utter figments, that it leads to a great nefarious precarious intrusion upon not only common sense, but against the bounds of acceptable behaviour.
I suppose it would be acceptable, in a limp-wristed hackered sort of fashion, to talk negatively about what the crux of the biscuit is, and not perhaps what it should be, regarding the CF honoring it’s overseas commitments. I’ve done it myself, many a time, before, during & since service. Why are we deployed here, here, & here?; and in what fashion,;and with what goals/objectives?
These are questions even a civilian is more than entitled to posit, and usually they do so well after the bloody bleeding obvious fact… :sick: :wanker:
However, it’s more than a bit underhanded to single out individual members of the CF, of whatever rank, for carrying out one of the aforementioned commitments.[/quote]

What’s a CF?

Canadian Forces

[quote=“trebuchet”][quote=“sjcma”] The American military also do not gain any extra soldiers from sending Canadians to Iraq. Exchanges are done one a one-for-one basis with soldiers of similar ranks. For every soldier the US receives from Canada, it loses one of the same rank to Canada.
[/quote]

Where do these American chaps who get “lost” to Canadian forces go? The great white north?[/quote]
Yes. Even reservist quality for the exchange program as detailed in this Canadian Army web article: Canadian-American exchange breaks new ground.

Furthermore, Americans have personelle exchange programs with many countries around the world, Australia and the UK being the two largest programs. Canada is 3rd. Venezuela used to be one of them before Chavez came to power. Singapore, Brazil, Mexico, and Norway are just some of the countries, among others, that have a military personelle exchange program with the US.

More news on that “secret”…

[quote]THRUST INTO ACTION:Canadian Soldiers fine-tune tactics in fight against Tailban terrorists

CAMP DONA ANA, FORT BLISS, New Mexico – The moonlight cuts silhouettes of soldiers and army tanks as the Canadian battle group prepares for a surprise assault.

Hours after the day dawns, the convoy makes its sluggish launch, picking up speed as the rolling sandy dunes flatten to tougher desert terrain. In single file, the army of LAVs, tanks and roughly 150 combat troops, including an Afghan contingent, make a 12-km trek to the “objective” of the attack.

This massive mock exercise, staged to train Canadian soldiers bound for Kandahar, uses a recreated “typical” Afghan village and live fire, jets, tanks and vehicles transported from Canada. The location, a sprawling U.S. army base that straddles Texas and New Mexico, closely resembles the mountains and desert terrain of Afghanistan.

After the main platoons arrive at the operational battle line, reinforcements move in from the west. Rocket-propelled grenades are hurled from the village and improvised explosive devices are detected – both confirming intelligence reports that the area is held by enemy Taliban insurgents.

Then comes the thunder of fire from the Canadians; a combination of artillery fire air power from CF-18s to “soften” the target before the assault force moves in. By foot, the soldiers who are supported by Afghan allies eventually move in to clear: Room by room, building by building, from mosque to school to barracks.

Clearing the village is not without resistance. By the end of this mock bloody battle there are a dozen friendly, civilian and insurgent casualties and at least two dangerous detainees captured.

More than 3,000 soldiers from Petawawa, Edmonton and Toronto are taking part in a major, month-long training exercise called “Operation Southern Bear” that will cost about $25 million and includes live shooting ranges, desert convoy escorts and foot patrols for deadly explosives.

In climate and conditions similar to what they will experience in Kandahar, the soldiers sleep in barracks or in tents hugging the mountainside. Often they rise at 3 a.m. to begin the day’s training exercise, or work well into the dark hours to fine-tune night-fighting capabilities.

MATTER OF SURVIVAL

Urban patrols with Afghan allies are a major part of the exercise for the observer mentoring and liaison teams (OMLT), where the motto is expect the unexpected. Soldiers learn how to make life-or-death, split-second decisions on whether someone is a hostile enemy or in need of their protection.

In one simulated exercise, Canadian troops with drawn rifles close in to enter a four-building compound suspected of being a Taliban gathering point. An enemy insurgent lurking inside draws his own weapon, hoping to hold his ground offensively. But after a few missed shots, the dirt and dust flies inside the two-level building as Canadian troops storm in.

“Down on the ground!” hollers one soldier, eventually bringing the insurgent to the ground with hands above his head.

This kind of training and practice pounds in the teamwork and tactics that are critical for soldiers who need to think on their feet in theatre.

“When you get over there, everything has to be a drill,” explains Capt. Blair Ashford. “We do these stands when there’s no risk or threat so when you get over there, meeting civilians on the street or hitting an IED, you can react quickly and appropriately.”

American and Mexican actors have been hired to play the role of “friendly” civilians, enemy insurgents and Afghan security forces. The Canadian soldier’s role in the OMLT is to mentor local police and soldiers – a job that requires patience and knowing when to stand back and defer to the Afghans.

“A lot of military people tend to be Type A personalities and want to take over when things aren’t going the way they think it should go,” Ashford says. “Something we do have to train is to be patient and to let them go through their plan. In some cases these soldiers have been fighting 20 years in Afghanistan, so they’ve got a lot more time fighting in their country than we do.”

Searching for and destroying improvised explosive devices (IEDs) is another key component to Operation Southern Bear. Dirt cheap and deadly, they are the weapon of choice for the Taliban and the major source of casualties among Canadian troops.

Creeping in two-lane formation with weapons drawn, a team of soldiers scours the landscape searching for IEDs. Often tiny and inconspicuous among trash or beneath rocks, the group is tasked with identifying the threats and responding accordingly.

U.S. Army Master Sgt. David Shindel has had personal encounters with IEDs in Iraq, and is sharing his experiences in a sobering two-hour lecture to Canadian troops.

“They’re catastrophic. They work well, they’re inexpensive and they’re easy for them to use because of the terrain,” he says. “They’re creative people and using homemade explosives is a common practice. The items by themselves are not illegal, but put them together because they’re readily available, and they’re deadly. And they know how to use them.”

IEDs are nothing new – Afghans used them decades ago against the Soviets – but they are becoming increasingly sophisticated. Some of the new projectile technology that is particularly lethal is making its way from Iraq to the Afghanistan theatre.

DETECTION IS KEY

An “IED petting zoo” gives soldiers tips on identifying and detecting the explosives, and shows how they can be hidden in anything from garbage or sand to abandoned cars. But while specialized equipment and armoured vehicles can help protect soldiers from harm after an explosion, Shindel insists the first line of safety is detection.

“Our biggest defence is their minds and their eyes, being constantly aware of what’s going on – that’s our biggest defence,” he says.

All of this is crucial training for Cpl. David Macdonald, 23, of Toronto, who will provide security protection on road patrols and supply convoys when he deploys for his first tour to Afghanistan this summer. Recognizing the inherent dangers of the job, he says the lives of his comrades depend on his ability to keep his head.

“You really see how ingenious they are when it comes to building these IEDs and placing them, and how hyper-vigilant you have to be in looking out for them,” Macdonald says. “We’ve been doing training for over seven months now and still to this day you see new things every day, new from theatre, on the tour right now.”

But Macdonald accepts the dangers and vows to do everything in his power to keep his “buddies” safe.

“I didn’t sign up to lie in a comfy bed rubbing a teddy bear, I came to do this. It’s a responsibility that comes with the job,” he says. “I joined the army wanting to go overseas, and I hope I can come back with my head held high.”

Convoy-driving exercises are also part of the Fort Bliss training, where soldiers ride a 32-km route in the desert and encounter mock villages with both friendly locals and ambushes by insurgents and IEDs.

Col. Dean Milner, a native of Winnipeg who is now brigade commander at Petawawa, says the collective exercise reflects the evolution of the mission to more development with provincial reconstruction teams and counter-insurgency fights that help local Afghan police and soldiers take the lead on security operations. “I just came back from Afghanistan and it’s not a secure country,” he says. “We really have to still focus on the training of being able to defeat an enemy in location. That needs to be extremely well conducted.”

Edmonton-based Second Lieut. Dan Gray will deploy next year as a troop leader, and he’s anxious to put his skills into practice.

As a recent graduate of the Royal Military College, he says the training exercises at Fort Bliss put him one step closer – and make him better prepared – for Kandahar.

“It shows you the adaptability of everything instead of the textbook way. It gives you a good sense of what can happen and how to deal with different situations,” he says.
Ottawa Sun[/quote]

[quote=“TheGingerMan”]
End use provisions for defence contracts? How would, even if we could, stop the US from doing whatever it damn well pleases? [/quote]

hey…how come that argument only works when people claimed that the US sold Iraq every piece of military hardware in its armory ?

[quote=“TheGingerMan”][Here’s the thread in question, is it not?
forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … highlight=
?[/quote]

I can’t get that link to work. How did you do it?
I want to go back and see how many Canadians on that thread stated that Canada was only involved in peaceful events in Iraq like building schools and stuff. I remember that there were a few.
GingerMan, you’re intelligent. Don’t you have any friends who are hippies? Ever been to a peace festival?

forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.ph … highlight=[/quote]
How’s that work?

Your recollection is in error, I would suggest. Short Term Memory Loss?
Perhaps it was all just a dream, something trickling down a generation or two, or something that happened in a galaxy far, far away…

Oh, please. Thanks ever so much!
Didn’t I lambast one earlier for stating the bloody obvious?
:no-no:

Not since high school. The costs of noxious, ill-informed effluvium from badly tuned instruments, both literal & meta-physical , outweighed the meagre benefits reaped from either maybe scoring some bad free dope or busting a nut now & again.
Real hep cats bailed on that scene long ago.
Do hippies really still exist?
I thought they are refered to as pot-heads, stoners or onanists?

A real one? Or just some drug-induced flopsy, a limp-wristed ivory-tower bound student reactionist ploy to get wasted? :beer:
In my time, I’ve been to both, i would suppose.
The general validity of each, in respect to their apparent maximum encapsulation from the freaky bag of groove, is in direct proportion to the amount of shrieking petulant politricking in plain sight & sound.
That and universal access to the beer garden.


Me 'un my brother think you talk funny