Car problems

I bought the rustbucket recently - 15yo Honda Civic, 1.5l manual. It runs smoothly, seems (seemed) to be in pretty good shape considering its age, but you have to expect things to go wrong.

Turn on the ignition and the temperature guage goes through the roof, while the fuel guage seems to be more or less random. Simple wiring fault, methinks. It has apparently always been like that, and I bet it will be a bastard to trace.

Yesterday I got an oil warning light while driving home. It comes on once the engine is warm, stays steady at tickover speeds, and flashes at higher revs. There is plenty of oil, and it’s clean.

As it doesn’t come on straight away I’m guessing it’s a temperature-related problem? Anyone? I’ll check the water before going anywhere today. Assuming it’s good maybe I’m looking at a circulation problem? Water pump? Thermostatic valve?

It’s years since I did any car maintenance, I don’t have any tools (yet) and I don’t know my way around this particular engine.

I need suggestions. Help!!

Thanks

Use the dip stick to check the level of oil. If it is ok then the oil should be ok. I think in cars the oil light measures the level of the oil not the pressure as in trucks and farm machinery. Although I am not too sure about this. In a truck if the oil pressure drops then a light will flash, so maybe the same thing is true for a car

If the head gasket is blown and the gases are going into the system, then the water will have evaporated. If there is no water, put some in. Turn on the engine and rev it a little. If the gasket is blown and gases are leaking into the water, then you will see bubbles. Never open the radiator cap when the engine is hot. Another problem may be a loose hoose or a leak ( that could have been caused by the head gasket). When the pressure goes up in the cooling system, the water is forced out.
Let the car run hot and see if there is any steam or water dropping from the radiator area or the pipes

I am unsure if a 15 year Honda Civic uses an electronic thermostat else the older type bi metal type

If the water pump is screwed then you may hear a wine from the bearings in the water pump. Water pumps usually give a wine when the bearings are gone and this usally happens when they get hot from no water passing through the pump. It is a simple mechanical device driven from the crankshaft via the belt, so only a couple of things can stop it working.

Then of course it could be just the electronics of it. My little Pugeuot reads the fuel gauge as full, half a tank and empty. One minute it is half full then it drops to empty and bounces around for a while until settling on half a tank or empty

I had a similar age Honda Civic in the UK which had similar problems. Same high temperature readings and (apparent) oil pressure warnings. It turned out that the radiator was f**ked and the engine was really getting too hot. So, one new radiator later and the problems all went away… Might be worth checking out.

As for the temperature guage. Usually, there is a wire connecting the thermostat to a point on/in the engine. The wire is in a way “clipped” onto a small lip on some engines, usually on older cars. This lip is where the thermostat will read it’s temperature.

If the wire comes off it’s connection point it is free so move around and it will touch parts of the engine which are hotter or colder than the “lip.” If the wire is in mid air, then it will read the air temperature in the engine.

So you can imagine that if you are going around corners and up hills the wire may be touching all manner of places and give you silly readings.

It may also be down to a water problem. Does your car lose water? You may have an airlock in your system where bleeding it and refilling it with water is the only option, then pumping the air out of the pipes with you hands before you connect them back up to the radiator. Airlocks also provide erratic readings on the temperature guage. It may also just be gunk in the radiator or system, which can be flushed out.
If it is a head gasget problem, you will be losing water as TNT states. Also look for filmy oil in the water tank. this is a strong indication of a head gasket problem.
If it’s the waterpump, then listen for noises - you may not know what noises are right for your car though seeing as you have just bought it. However, the wine form the pump should be obvious.

Your petrol guage problem sounds like wiring.

Lastly, perhaps buying a rustbucket is the problem?

Warning: Dangermouse is not a mechanic and any inference to his status as a mechanic is purely coincidental. Dangermouse will not take any responsibility or liability for poorly inspired botch up jobs, or cars exploding like they do in the movies due to wrong advice.
The name “Dangermouse” is synominous with quality, reliability and high standards. Except where cars are concerned.

The oil light warns of low pressure, not low level. The light being on at idle is not a good sign. If the level is okay then you could be looking at worn main and/or rod bearings.
Thermostat on this motor is a bimetalic type. The temp sensor is a single wire thermistor, so it sounds like either the sensor is borked, or the wiring is shorted somewhere. As suggested, there may be little or no water in the system. Check the water level, look for oil film on top of the water (blown gaskets), leaks in the system, leaky pump etc.
Salvage sohc non-vtec motors are plentiful and dirt cheap, if it comes to that.

Good advice listed above…

One other thing you might want to consider is the oil pump. Even with fresh oil a bad pump will not be able to circulate it through the engine properly, which could well account for all the ticking noises and increased engine temperatures.

Also, be sure to check you engine fans, both for the main radiator and the a/c fan. The thermostat can easily be checked at home to see if it works by simply putting it in hot water and using a cooking thermometer to check it’s opening temperature. Lastly don’t be surprised if your Civic has no thermostat, many mechanics here will simply pull them and let the system run open. If your car takes forever to warm up in the winter, then it’s safe to assume it’s been removed.

As for the head gasket, it’s not always a surefire diagnosis to check for radiator bubbling, so look for signs of oil in the water by sticking your finger in and feeling the “fins” (when cold of course). Also, look for signs of water on the dipstick or signs of oil in your overfill container.

I wouldn’t sweat the fuel gauge too much…Just reset your odometer to zero every time you fill up, and after one tank you’ll know how far you can go on one stop at the pump. If you have to have this problem addressed, very likely it’s the sensor in the gas tank itself that’s causing the problem.

Has the car overheated? Or runs hotter than 3/4 on a consistant basis? Either one of these symtoms could cause warpage in the head itself, so make sure to let the engine cool (ideally 2 hours) before adding water or anti-freeze. It’s also possible you have a cracked block, which would spell the end of your vehicle.

Also, what kind of oil are you running?

Cooling system problems are a true pain in the ass, but you can upgrade to an oversize copper radiator, larger cooling fans, and an aftermarket water pump.

One last thing about old Taiwan clunkers…Don’t throw good money after bad. I say this only from expensive first-hand experience. Several of the fixes mentioned on this thread will cost more than the car is worth…Any chance of obtaining this vehicles service records?

Hope you get it sussed before your road trip… :slight_smile:

About the oil pump… IIRC the only pump available is the OEM, and I have a feeling it’s not available outside of Honda’s own service bays. At least that was the case when Sanyang was Honda. In other words, replacing the pump would cost you more than a complete salvage motor. AND, the pumps usually last longer than the bearings or just about anything else, so it’s very likely that if the pump is shot, so is everything else. It is possible for a garage to check the oil pressure by removing the pressure sensor and installing a fitting and gauge, though it might need some persistance on your part.

Hsiadogah is right, the oil pump is among the most reliable of parts in an engine…

However, it can fail, usually due to running the engine low on oil for extended periods of time.

After talking to two mechanics in Chungli, (one of them a former honda mechanic) the symptoms described are consistent enough with oil pump failure to investigate…No guarantee that this is the problem, but a low pressure warning light at idle is not a good sign. Hsiadogah also is spot on with his assessment that if the oil pump has indeed failed, very likely other crucial internals are bad as well.

Also, do a compression check on the engine.

Oil pump for 1989 1.5 liter Civic: 3,000NT. Available after-market at 4 different parts suppliers in Chungli alone.
Labor: 1,000NT to 1,500NT.

Hsiadogah, how does one legally replace an engine block for a domestic vehicle?..They use the ID number on the engine to identify the car. I ran into this problem before with a Suzuki Vitara 1.6…Had a cracked block. Ended up doing a weld and sell. Do you know something we don’t?

[quote=“Michael J Botti”]
Oil pump for 1989 1.5 liter Civic: 3,000NT. Available after-market at 4 different parts suppliers in Chungli (Zhongli) alone.
Labor: 1,000NT to 1,500NT.
[/quote]Mmm. Good. Things have gotten better wrt parts availability.

[quote]
how does one legally replace an engine block for a domestic vehicle?[/quote]
In the bad old days you had to resort to bribery. They changed the law a few years ago to allow the replacement of the engine or block for one of the same type. The new engine must be of the same make, displacement, fuel type and even the exact same series as the original. So, no swapping a B16 or B20 in there :wink: You have to fit a D15A2 or whatever was in there. Any one of those ‘agents’ that cluster around the driver and vehicle licensing centers would be able to help with the paperwork. I seem to recall that an inspection is required after the swap, but don’t quote me on that.

[color=blue]Thanks, guys. I’ll reply mostly to Michael’s post as it seems to cover most of the points brought up:

I haven’t really had much opportunity to check anything, on account of too much work, people getting married, and the car being parked on a slope all the time. No place to work, and no tools doesn’t help either.[/color]

One other thing you might want to consider is the oil pump. Even with fresh oil a bad pump will not be able to circulate it through the engine properly, which could well account for all the ticking noises and increased engine temperatures.

[color=blue]This is what I’m thinking. Thanks for the info about replacement parts.[/color]

Also, be sure to check you engine fans, both for the main radiator and the a/c fan. The thermostat can easily be checked at home to see if it works by simply putting it in hot water and using a cooking thermometer to check it’s opening temperature. Lastly don’t be surprised if your Civic has no thermostat, many mechanics here will simply pull them and let the system run open. If your car takes forever to warm up in the winter, then it’s safe to assume it’s been removed.

[color=blue]I discovered a screwdriver hiding with my computer parts, and it was just about adequate to undo the top radiator hose. The water was dirty, but oil-free, and there seemed to be pretty good flow once the engine warmed up. I don’t think the problem is the pump or the valve. The fan kicked in OK too, although I don’t know at what temperature.[/color]

As for the head gasket, it’s not always a surefire diagnosis to check for radiator bubbling, so look for signs of oil in the water by sticking your finger in and feeling the “fins” (when cold of course). Also, look for signs of water on the dipstick or signs of oil in your overfill container.

[color=blue]I checked the oil before my first posting, as it was the easiest and most obvious thing to do. Plenty of oil, and it was clean - no water in it either. Actually, there looked to be rather a lot of it. I checked the water too - full to the top, and no oil in it.

I guess we can discount the blown head-gasket theory, however I did forget to mention the burning smell. I’ve also noticed wafts of blue smoke occasionally, but am not sure where they’re coming from. Somewhere down below. What are the odds of a blown sump gasket leaking a bit of oil when the pressure gets up, which blows back onto the exhaust while driving?[/color]

I wouldn’t sweat the fuel gauge too much…Just reset your odometer to zero every time you fill up, and after one tank you’ll know how far you can go on one stop at the pump. If you have to have this problem addressed, very likely it’s the sensor in the gas tank itself that’s causing the problem.

[color=blue]I’m not worried about this issue in itself, it just makes me wonder whether the reported oil problem is real or not. It might be telling me to fasten my seatbelt for all I know.[/color]

Has the car overheated? Or runs hotter than 3/4 on a consistant basis? Either one of these symtoms could cause warpage in the head itself, so make sure to let the engine cool (ideally 2 hours) before adding water or anti-freeze. It’s also possible you have a cracked block, which would spell the end of your vehicle.

[color=blue]The engine is “hot” after being driven, but I don’t think it’s excessively so. It’s hard to tell with a non-functioning temperature guage. I don’t hear any frightening cooling sounds when stopped, it doesn’t run on after switching off the ignition, runs fine, and doesn’t blow off steam.[/color]

Also, what kind of oil are you running?

[color=blue]The oil that was in it when I bought it. :sunglasses: [/color]

Cooling system problems are a true pain in the ass, but you can upgrade to an oversize copper radiator, larger cooling fans, and an aftermarket water pump.

One last thing about old Taiwan clunkers…Don’t throw good money after bad. I say this only from expensive first-hand experience. Several of the fixes mentioned on this thread will cost more than the car is worth…Any chance of obtaining this vehicles service records?

[color=blue]It was apparently looked after by this ‘great’ mechanic for years. The timing is out, and the plug leads look to be the original ones, so I’ll take that recommendation with a pinch of salt. Compare and contrast with the way that Bikefarm happily tinker with my Zing, looking for things to fix, every time they change the oil. Anyone know a good mechanic that can diagnose and fix this problem with the minimum of fuss - then give the car a proper service and tune-up?[/color]

Hope you get it sussed before your road trip… :slight_smile:

[color=blue]Me too!

I didn’t use the car this weekend, partly because the aircon stopped working on Friday. (I’ll worry about that problem later.) This morning I drove 25 minutes in traffic before the light came on. Usually it takes 5.

Also it started flashing straight away at all engine speeds, instead of holding steady at lower revs as it had done previously. I checked the oil level before starting out this morning and it was noticeably lower than Weds/Thurs too. Does anybody have the manual for this car, and can tell me what the light actually means when it does this - assuming it’s wired in correctly.

Thanks gentlemen, and keep the ideas coming please. I’m still driving 30-50km a day so I want to fix this SOON![/color]

What are they all on about?

A great deal of rubbish is currently being said and written about Jenson Button’s decision to switch from BAR-Honda to BMW Williams next season. BAR may have tried to claim the moral high ground by claiming that Button is breaking a contract but this has yet to be proven. If the matter does go to the FIA Contract Recognition Board and Button loses he could go back to BAR-Honda next year. It is hard to imagine that the relationship will be a happy one but it has happened before not least when the Board refused David Coulthard the right to leave Williams to join McLaren back in 1994 and was forced to stay with Williams in 1995. At the end of the year he moved to the Woking team.

Under European law, one cannot force someone to work if they do not wish to do that job and so Button could go to Williams anyway although in this case a financial settlement would need to be found. Clearly, however, Williams has taken legal advice and this has indicated that the team is within its rights to sign Button. If this legal opinion is upheld by the Contract Recognition Board Button will join Williams and that will be the end of the matter unless BAR wants to prolong the whole thing and move on from there to a civil action. The team could do this but that would take several months and the team would no be able to sign a replacement for Button in the interim because of its claim.

There is no obvious way in which the Briton will be in any danger of any licence suspension or not being allowed to race. If the switch was happening at the next race there might be the possibility of an injunction but that is clearly not the case in this dispute.

If BAR decides to drop Button now, it will seriously undermine its own case (not to mention its World Championship hopes) and so this is not really a viable option unless the team decides to give up and let Button go to Williams. In that case Button would probably be able to sue the team for breach of contract.

Maybe that’s what you should consider, Stragbasher. Ditch the Honda and go with Williams. I bet you’ll easily get your travel partner if you have a fine set of Williams wheels. :wink:

[color=blue]I checked the oil before my first posting, as it was the easiest and most obvious thing to do. Plenty of oil, and it was cleanb]

I guess we can discount the blown head-gasket theory, however I did forget to mention the burning smell. I’ve also noticed wafts of blue smoke occasionally, but am not sure where they’re coming from. Somewhere down below. What are the odds of a blown sump gasket leaking a bit of oil when the pressure gets up, which blows back onto the exhaust while driving?[/color]

[color=blue]I’m not worried about this issue in itself, it just makes me wonder whether the reported oil problem is real or not. It might be telling me to fasten my seatbelt for all I know.[/color]

[color=blue]The engine is “hot” after being driven, but I don’t think it’s excessively so. It’s hard to tell with a non-functioning temperature guage. I don’t hear any frightening cooling sounds when stopped, it doesn’t run on after switching off the ignition, runs fine, and doesn’t blow off steam.[/color]

I didn’t use the car this weekend, partly because the aircon stopped working on Friday. (I’ll worry about that problem later.) This morning I drove 25 minutes in traffic before the light came on. Usually it takes 5.

Also it started flashing straight away at all engine speeds, instead of holding steady at lower revs as it had done previously. I checked the oil level before starting out this morning and it was noticeably lower than Weds/Thurs too. Does anybody have the manual for this car, and can tell me what the light actually means when it does this - assuming it’s wired in correctly.
quote]

How much lower is lower?..Sounds like the gauge is working correctly. If the cars oil pressure is low to begin with, being low on oil will aggravate the problem. Higher revs=higher oil pressure. No good news here I’m afraid. Again, pointing to worn internals/oil pump.

It is possible that oil is dripping from somewhere and hitting the exhaust. It’s also possible that you have a hole in the exhaust manifold, and the wafts of blue smoke are coming from there. If that’s the case, then you will also have blue exhaust smoke from your tailpipe, a sign of worn piston rings.

Again, do a compression test. It’s cheap and will tell you in 30 seconds whether or not it’s worth repairing. At the same time, you can inspect your plugs.

What do you mean by your a/c stopped working? Does the compressor turn on with no cold air? Or does it not turn on at all? When a compressor goes south, it has an unmistakable sound, like a kid riding a bike at 100mph with a card in the spokes.

I don’t like the sounds of these symptoms at all. I would guess from what you are telling me that this engine is on it’s way out. Even if the gauges are incorrect, and you are leaking oil instead of burning it, the cost of the aircon/gasket repair may well exceed the value of the car.

You need to get this car into a shop ASAP. If nothing else, do the compression test, check your plugs, and do a thorough walk around underneath checking for oil leaks. You do not need to commit to any sort of repair at this point.

I would also recommend getting rid of the idiot light and installing a standard oil pressure gauge if you plan to keep this car.

On a final note, you’ll need to be carrying tools, water and oil if you plan to take this vehicle on any sort of road trip.

Thanks to everyone (except the idiot from the tavern)

I’ve had old cars that leaked oil which burned in the past - this looks similar but there isn’t a great deal of it. It’s certainly not being blown anywhere, as in blown out of a hole in an exhaust pipe. And it’s oil, not exhaust.

The exhaust is pretty clean. I held white paper over the end for a while and didn’t get any oil spots. The engine seems pretty spunky, isn’t rattling, and although the oil level has dropped, it is still clean. I’m thinking that I’m not burning oil.

I’m not sure that it has dropped after all. It certainly hasn’t changed in the last couple of days, and the first big drop could have been me misreading it. I don’t remember whether I was parked on a slope.

On the other hand, maybe it has blown/burned down to a level that there’s not enough left to burn/blow any more?

Is anyone going to recommend me a good mechanic, or am I going to take it back to the people that have done such a good job in the past?

Oh, the aircon has just stopped producing cold air. The fan blows, etc.

I’ll be your nav then.

Dude, if you bought this car so recently, is it not possible to get your money back? It’s starting to sound like a lemon.

[quote=“stragbasher”]Thanks to everyone (except the idiot from the tavern)

I’ve had old cars that leaked oil which burned in the past - this looks similar but there isn’t a great deal of it. It’s certainly not being blown anywhere, as in blown out of a hole in an exhaust pipe. And it’s oil, not exhaust.

The exhaust is pretty clean. I held white paper over the end for a while and didn’t get any oil spots. The engine seems pretty spunky, isn’t rattling, and although the oil level has dropped, it is still clean. I’m thinking that I’m not burning oil.

I’m not sure that it has dropped after all. It certainly hasn’t changed in the last couple of days, and the first big drop could have been me misreading it. I don’t remember whether I was parked on a slope.

On the other hand, maybe it has blown/burned down to a level that there’s not enough left to burn/blow any more?

Is anyone going to recommend me a good mechanic, or am I going to take it back to the people that have done such a good job in the past?

Oh, the aircon has just stopped producing cold air. The fan blows, etc.[/quote]

How old is it and how much did you pay?

If it is plagued with problems… latest one seems to be the gas is gone from the air conditioning system ( so no cold air)… then maybe it is time to call it a day

Think of it this way… you put money into this car and then something else screws up… then you are caught between putting more money into so as not to throw the money you had just put into it the first time you fixed or else dump the car and then you have wasted money on the first repair.

Its throwing money down the drain. Write if off as a good experience and know better the next time

When a car gets so old, unless you have spare second hand parts that are cheap available,then the car should be decomissoned by driving it off a cliff

At the moment, if you walk into a garage and ask

“Would you give me an oil filter FOR my civic?”
The mechanic would probabily say “OK FAIR DEAL” :wink:

Hondas are cheap on spares… i would try to go for spending max 5k first and see if it worked.

I an the happy owner of a rustbucket, and have been for some time - 3 years and counting. The occational NT$2k reparation, but well for a total of NT$60k including what I paid it when I took it of the dealer’s hands, the old rustbucket has taken me 60+thousand kilometers.

It was the oil valve leaking. No biggie.

I had the water valve replaced too as it was a bit ratty, and the aircon problem was due to the ‘clutch’ thingy being worn.

It all works fine now.

When I have more time I’ll rant about the idiocy of people who tell me to drive a working motor vehicle off a cliff and put it down to experience. It’s pissing down out there!

Thanks for the diagnostic help, those of you that helped.

Glad to hear it’s sussed…

What was the damage?