CBC vs The 'White' Face and the right for equal pay

[bismarck]

[quote=“Charlie Jack”]Disclaimer Number 1: This post is for informational purposes only. I’m not a lawyer here, and nothing in this post should be understood as legal advice, or advice of any kind.

The following is from the Web site of the Council of Labor Affairs:

[quote]Prohibition of Employment Discrimination

To protect equal employment opportunities for citizens, Item 1, Article 5 of the Employment Services Act was amended and promulgated by the President on May 23, 2007. The amended article is as follows: “For the purpose of ensuring [color=#FF0000]national’s[/color] equal opportunity in employment, Employer is prohibited from discriminating against any Job Applicant or Employee on the basis of race, class, language, thought, religion, political party, place of origin, place of birth, gender, gender orientation, age, marital status, appearance, facial features, disability, or past membership in any labor union; matters stated clearly in other laws shall be followed in priority.”[/quote]

Disclaimer Number 2: As to Article 5 of the Employment Services Act, I am uncertain of the following:

color=#FF0000 whether this law applies to noncitizens;[/color]
(b) whether discrimination in pay is recognized as discrimination under this law;
(c) whether this law applies in your particular case, or in any given particular case;
(d) whether this law is widely enforced, and whether it would be enforced in your case;
(e) what risks are involved in mentioning this law to your employer or in attempting to have this law enforced.[/quote]
I didn’t check the Chinese, but I think you’ll find that the highlighted “National” in your quote would indeed refer to Taiwanese citizens only in the Chinese version.

Besides, the argument will be: If you willingly sign a contract without any coercion whatsoever to perform a job for X amount of money, regardless of how much other employees are paid, there was no discrimination. As the employer/business owner they are always going to get you to work for as little as possible, regardless of any other factors.

Case in point. I have a friend who started working at GVO for NT$550/hour. I believe that is 100 more than the usual starting wage there. They didn’t offer it to her. They offered her NT$400/hr. She was free to accept or refuse. So she bargained and used her experience etc as a bargaining tool. They came to an agreement that was acceptable to both of them, employer and employee.
Let’s say I go there and manage to convince them to pay me NT$600/hr (bloody unlikely if you know GVO, but bear with me), would she then be able to claim they are discriminating against her based on her gender?

[scarab1169]

Discrimination is everywhere. It sucks. No matter what we try to do - it’s very difficult to change perceived ideas about what is acceptable and correct.

If the OP can “clean up” his grammar more and have faith in himself , he could probably land a better paying job. There are schools in Taiwan that do hire ABC/CBC teachers and pay them the same rate as a “white” face. If your school is paying you less, well that in my eyes would make me wonder about the school.

[TheGingerMan]

[quote=“bismarck”]
Excuse my bluntness, but from what you have said, I am assuming, you are (regardless of being CBC, ABC or any other alphabetic term, which I personally feel is racist - or at least obtuse - in itself) either:

1. A qualified Canadian teacher (I assume Canadian seeing as you mentioned the whole ABC thing), or
2. An unqualified foreigner (your ethnicity being of no consequence, because you are either Taiwanese or a foreigner).[/quote]
   A valid point. In situations were qualifications are deemed more than the bottom line.

[quote]If you are number one, then 'm quite certain you have much better options available to you in Canada as a qualified teacher. Including such things as health benefits and ample paid vacations.
If you are number two, then you are hardly in a position to complain, as you would then be equally unqualified by your own assessment other than your ethnicity.[/quote]
Number One is not everything that it makes itself out to be. By it’s very nature, it’s bound to be replaced at some point. Whether by qualifications (actual and/or paper) or mere circumstance. The caprice of consumer demand is a mighty force.

[quote][quote=“TheGingerMan”]It should also be noted that there is indeed a bias on the part of some parents and indeed adult teachers that having a white face teach English is the best deal, regardless of teaching ability. Some folks feel they’re not getting their money’s worth if they learn from an ABC or CBC, even if the quality of teaching is better than some slacker with no experience except for having a a big nose?
Why else would so many [color=#FF0000]Canadians and South Africans[/color] get hired?[/quote]
Glad you brought that up.
Of all the teachers I have met here, there have been non-native speakers from all the major English speaking countries teaching here. Including the US and the UK. So singling out Afrikaners and French Canadians is denying that fact. In fact, the only two countries’ teachers I have encountered here who have all been native speakers have been Aussies and Kiwis.[/quote]
Well, that just illustrates that some folks move in different regional circles. And as for Canadians, I’ve only met a few Quebecois that taught English. I was referring to that more than the vast majority of native English speakers from Anglo Canada that are well pressed to speak their mother tongue on not much more of a swinish level than bar talk.
My point being that it would appear that many Afrikaners and Anglo-Canadians get hired is more to their visage than their accent or diction.
!

And to be frank, Asian looking Canadians and Americans aren’t the only teachers that are met with prejudice and lower pay. South Africans generally work for dogs wages compared to what North Americans get. Regardless of experience or qualifications. In fact, many jobs specifically advertise that they want a North American teacher (US or Canadian passport), besides the fact that 99% of parents or buxiban laobans wouldn’t know the difference if it kicked them in the knackers. But that’s the nature of the business. Whining about it isn’t going to change anything.

Damn Straight! Think about how it would be to of Asian heritage, and coupled with a broad limey accent! Those guys suffer! I can still hear them now, raging against the nasal CanAmerican twang. Face it, you Dutch/Pommie punters are out of luck on the prejudice of the local market. No use getting angry at the weather.
Sooner you lot change the HBO/Cinemax roster, and replace it with some more inane models, you’ll be good to go!
French is being studied a lot more. Make movies about supertaxis. Or Districts.

[bismarck]

[quote=“TheGingerMan”][quote=“Bismarck”][quote=“TheGingerMan”]It should also be noted that there is indeed a bias on the part of some parents and indeed adult teachers that having a white face teach English is the best deal, regardless of teaching ability. Some folks feel they’re not getting their money’s worth if they learn from an ABC or CBC, even if the quality of teaching is better than some slacker with no experience except for having a a big nose?
Why else would so many [color=#FF0000]Canadians and South Africans[/color] get hired?[/quote]
Glad you brought that up.
Of all the teachers I have met here, there have been non-native speakers from all the major English speaking countries teaching here. Including the US and the UK. So singling out Afrikaners and French Canadians is denying that fact. In fact, the only two countries’ teachers I have encountered here who have all been native speakers have been Aussies and Kiwis.[/quote]
Well, that just illustrates that some folks move in different regional circles. And as for Canadians, I’ve only met a few Quebecois that taught English. I was referring to that more than the vast majority of native English speakers from Anglo Canada that are well pressed to speak their mother tongue on not much more of a swinish level than bar talk.
My point being that it would appear that many Afrikaners and Anglo-Canadians get hired is more to their visage than their accent or diction.[/quote]
There is that. A source of frustration to me as much as anyone (being Saffa, I refer to the prevalence of Afrikaners, especially the unqualified heavily accented kind).

@TheGingerMan

[quote]And to be frank, Asian looking Canadians and Americans aren’t the only teachers that are met with prejudice and lower pay. South Africans generally work for dogs wages compared to what North Americans get. Regardless of experience or qualifications. In fact, many jobs specifically advertise that they want a North American teacher (US or Canadian passport), besides the fact that 99% of parents or buxiban laobans wouldn’t know the difference if it kicked them in the knackers. But that’s the nature of the business. Whining about it isn’t going to change anything.

Damn Straight! Think about how it would be to of Asian heritage, and coupled with a broad limey accent! Those guys suffer! I can still hear them now, raging against the nasal CanAmerican twang. Face it, [color=#FF0000]you Dutch[/color]/Pommie punters are out of luck on the prejudice of the local market. No use getting angry at the weather.
Sooner you lot change the HBO/Cinemax roster, and replace it with some more inane models, you’ll be good to go!
French is being studied a lot more. Make movies about supertaxis. Or Districts.[/quote]
You seem to be equating Saffa with Afrikaner. Not all of us Saffas are Afrikaners, and not all Afrikaners sound like Wikus in District 9. However, the crux of your point is still valid in that there are enough of the Wikus variety about that locals and foreigners alike tend to make that assumption.

Whatever a person’s appearance, I have always found it amusing that teaching English in Taiwan is always accompanied by two qualifiers (in South Africa, at least, not sure how people from elsewhere find out about teaching here):

1. Must have a bachelor’s degree, at least.
2. Must be a native speaker.
   It is astonishing how often I meet people here who don’t qualify on the grounds of one or both of the above. Which brings me back to my point in an earlier post. At least I’m qualified to make the distinction, and can ensure that my child isn’t being “taught” English by someone with horrendous pronunciation or grammar. The problem comes in with locals who cannot make that qualification and thus resort to the only qualification they think equates with English native speaker. Unfortunately, this results in all kinds of unfortunate hiring practices. As someone else pointed out, the proverbial Japanese being passed off as Chinese at a Chinese language school in England (for example) because the students don’t know any better.

Still, no sense in whining about it, and no point in blaming “(insert relevant colour)” Face, either.

[Charlie_Jack]

[quote=“bismarck”][quote=“Charlie Jack”]Disclaimer Number 1: This post is for informational purposes only. I’m not a lawyer here, and nothing in this post should be understood as legal advice, or advice of any kind.

The following is from the Web site of the Council of Labor Affairs:

[quote]Prohibition of Employment Discrimination

To protect equal employment opportunities for citizens, Item 1, Article 5 of the Employment Services Act was amended and promulgated by the President on May 23, 2007. The amended article is as follows: “For the purpose of ensuring [color=#FF0000]national’s[/color] equal opportunity in employment, Employer is prohibited from discriminating against any Job Applicant or Employee on the basis of race, class, language, thought, religion, political party, place of origin, place of birth, gender, gender orientation, age, marital status, appearance, facial features, disability, or past membership in any labor union; matters stated clearly in other laws shall be followed in priority.”[/quote]

Disclaimer Number 2: As to Article 5 of the Employment Services Act, I am uncertain of the following:

color=#FF0000 whether this law applies to noncitizens;[/color]
(b) whether discrimination in pay is recognized as discrimination under this law;
(c) whether this law applies in your particular case, or in any given particular case;
(d) whether this law is widely enforced, and whether it would be enforced in your case;
(e) what risks are involved in mentioning this law to your employer or in attempting to have this law enforced.[/quote]
I didn’t check the Chinese, but I think you’ll find that the highlighted “National” in your quote would indeed refer to Taiwanese citizens only in the Chinese version.

Besides, the argument will be: If you willingly sign a contract without any coercion whatsoever to perform a job for X amount of money, regardless of how much other employees are paid, there was no discrimination. As the employer/business owner they are always going to get you to work for as little as possible, regardless of any other factors.

Case in point. I have a friend who started working at GVO for NT$550/hour. I believe that is 100 more than the usual starting wage there. They didn’t offer it to her. They offered her NT$400/hr. She was free to accept or refuse. So she bargained and used her experience etc as a bargaining tool. They came to an agreement that was acceptable to both of them, employer and employee.
Let’s say I go there and manage to convince them to pay me NT$600/hr (bloody unlikely if you know GVO, but bear with me), would she then be able to claim they are discriminating against her based on her gender?[/quote]Dang! Thanks for mentioning the part about nationals. Sorry for the oversight. Very goofy of me to miss it. I think I saw that several years ago when I first posted about it (I was using the name xp+10K then), because I wrote that the language of the law “would seem to imply that in employment matters, it’s against Taiwanese law to discriminate against a Taiwanese for being Taiwanese, or for having a Taiwanese (or Asian) appearance.” Hess Educational Organization (何嘉仁文教機構) - #156 by xp_10K

But I overlooked it this time. However, I must have had some kind of dim scintilla of it in my almost-snuffed-out brain (thus, item a in Disclaimer Number 2). I also remembered the Constitution’s providing for the equality of citizens:

[quote]All citizens of the Republic of China, irrespective of sex, religion, race, class, or party affiliation, shall be equal before the law.[/quote]–Constitution of the Republic of China (Taiwan), Chapter II, Article 7.

As to the pay differential, and assuming we’re talking about a Taiwanese (i.e., an ROC citizen), I’m not sure (thus, item b in Disclaimer Number 2).

Wow, I weasel-worded the heck out of my earlier post in this thread, huh? Damn near disclaimered it out of existence!

I wish I knew more about this place. I wish I knew Chinese.

[Buttercup]

[quote=“bismarck”] As someone else pointed out, the proverbial Japanese being passed off as Chinese at a Chinese language school in England (for example) because the students don’t know any better.
[/quote]

Off-topic, but I’d be very surprised if that ever happened. Bilingual, British nationality Chinese folk are easily available, cheaply, whereas it’s much rarer to meet Japanese folk. Few Chinese teachers are qualified, although they have to be police-checked if they work with kids, and have teaching qualifications in schools.

They earn from £8 - £30 an hour, similar to EFL / ESOL teachers. interestingly, the Confucius Institute teachers are all broke because they paid in China, with a ‘living allowance’, in Britain. The lady I knew left her salary with her parents to look after her kids and lived a slightly ‘basic’ life in the UK. She was having trouble living here, so far from her kid, but she really wanted to do it, and spoke of it as a huge opportunity that was highly competitive at the selction stage.

[for-a-samosa]

To the original poster: I’m an “ABC” (try not to refer to myself as such, but Taiwanese just love their acronyms)…

From experience (5 years of teaching at both private buxibans and chain schools), I always received equal starting pay, which makes me think you are either: A) working in the wrong place or B) your employer doesn’t have any confidence in you.

Yes, of course in theory, you should get equal pay if you’re equally competent. But if your employer doesn’t get it (or doesn’t care), then s/he probably never will. Choose a better battle if you really want to fight over the principle.

My two cents…

[occhimarroni]

I think some part of the debate has to do with actually being an “ABC” as well. Many Taiwanese love to throw this term around. It is of course often misused. I would suggest that a large portion of people labeling themselves ABC’s are hardly that. People if you were not born in the U.S. then you are not an ABC! Trust me we can tell. Just 'cause you go over in middle school or spent a few years abroad doesn’t mean you somehow lose your original identity. It really irks me when co-workers of mine argue (or the OP) they should have equal pay when they continue to make speaking and writing errors that a native speaker would clearly not make. I’ve been here for awhile. Can I go back now and argue that I’m Taiwanese?

[Northcoast_Surfer]

[quote=“for-a-samosa”]To the original poster: I’m an “ABC” (try not to refer to myself as such, but Taiwanese just love their acronyms)[/quote]Were you born in America? Did you enter Taiwan on your US passport get a work permit and an ARC like other foreigners?

I’ve known many ethnic Chinese who were born in America from two Taiwanese parents, entered Taiwan on their American passports, secured employment teaching English with the same pay as any other foreigners.

[Northcoast_Surfer]

[quote=“occhimarroni”]I think some part of the debate has to do with actually being an “ABC” as well. Many Taiwanese love to throw this term around. It is of course often misused. I would suggest that a large portion of people labeling themselves ABC’s are hardly that. People if you were not born in the U.S. then you are not an ABC! Trust me we can tell. Just 'cause you go over in middle school or spent a few years abroad doesn’t mean you somehow lose your original identity. It really irks me when co-workers of mine argue (or the OP) they should have equal pay when they continue to make speaking and writing errors that a native speaker would clearly not make. I’ve been here for awhile. Can I go back now and argue that I’m Taiwanese?[/quote]Exactly! :bravo: I know two Taiwanese citizens who went to live in America for just enough time to weasel their way to a green card and then subsequently US citizenship through other family members in the US. Then, they both returned to Taiwan immediately. In total, they both spent just a little over 5 years of their total life in America and as American citizens. When they came back to Taiwan they entered on their Taiwanese passports. They both refer to themselves as ABCs, and they both have managed to weasel their way to Foreigner Teacher (FT) positions at a very well known English bushiban chain. Their accents are heavy and their grammar is riddled with mistakes! Skin color and asian features mean nothing. They are not foreigners, they are not native English speakers, they are not ABCs, and it’s beyond me how the school manages to pass them off to gullible parents as native speakers of English.

Satellite TV (formerly of Australia) and Poagao (formerly of the USA) are naturalized Taiwan citizens. Would it be correct to refer to them as native speakers of Chinese because of their citizenship?

[bismarck]

[quote=“Northcoast Surfer”][quote=“occhimarroni”]I think some part of the debate has to do with actually being an “ABC” as well. Many Taiwanese love to throw this term around. It is of course often misused. I would suggest that a large portion of people labeling themselves ABC’s are hardly that. People if you were not born in the U.S. then you are not an ABC! Trust me we can tell. Just 'cause you go over in middle school or spent a few years abroad doesn’t mean you somehow lose your original identity. It really irks me when co-workers of mine argue (or the OP) they should have equal pay when they continue to make speaking and writing errors that a native speaker would clearly not make. I’ve been here for awhile. Can I go back now and argue that I’m Taiwanese?[/quote]Exactly! :bravo: I know two Taiwanese citizens who went to live in America for just enough time to weasel their way to a green card and then subsequently US citizenship through other family members in the US. Then, they both returned to Taiwan immediately. In total, they both spent just a little over 5 years of their total life in America and as American citizens. When they came back to Taiwan they entered on their Taiwanese passports. They both refer to themselves as ABCs, and they both have managed to weasel their way to Foreigner Teacher (FT) positions at a very well known English buxiban chain. Their accents are heavy and their grammar is riddled with mistakes! Skin color and Asian features mean nothing. They are not foreigners, they are not native English speakers, they are not ABCs, and it’s beyond me how the school manages to pass them off to gullible parents as native speakers of English.

Satellite TV (formerly of Australia) and Poagao (formerly of the USA) are naturalized Taiwan citizens. Would it be correct to refer to them as native speakers of Chinese because of their citizenship?[/quote]
Well put, sir!

[kaikai34]

if you have the experience and you’re good at what you do, go out and get what you think you deserve. don’t settle for anything less.

[bababa]

[quote=“Buttercup”][quote=“bismarck”] As someone else pointed out, the proverbial Japanese being passed off as Chinese at a Chinese language school in England (for example) because the students don’t know any better.
[/quote]

Off-topic, but I’d be very surprised if that ever happened. Bilingual, British nationality Chinese folk are easily available, cheaply, whereas it’s much rarer to meet Japanese folk. Few Chinese teachers are qualified, although they have to be police-checked if they work with kids, and have teaching qualifications in schools.

[/quote]
Yeah, I don’t think this happens often either, but it is the equivalent of what the bosses and parents in Taiwan are doing.
Even when I have mentioned an obviously (to me) absurd example of hiring prejudice to a Taiwanese friend or acquaintance who otherwise seems fairly intelligent, they still don’t get it. I met a Taiwanese student who told me her English teacher was wonderful, because she was from Brazil, in America, and so spoke perfect English. No Taiwanese person I have ever mentioned this to has understood the problem. Most seem to agree that, yes, of course, a Brazilian woman would speak perfect English because she’s from America. (She might, of course, just as I, a native speaker of English from Canada, speak perfect Portuguese.)
One of the bosses at Kojen wanted to hire a woman who had been born in Los Angeles to Taiwanese parents, but had then moved back to Taiwan as a baby, and who could speak English about as well as the average Taiwanese high-school graduate, as a native-speaking teacher. She had all the qualifications, he said: she had an American passport.
I cannot believe that this kind of shit would work in Western countries. In restaurants, yes - I know the waiters at the local sushi joint aren’t really Japanese, even if some of the patrons are clueless. But at a language school? I can’t see it.

[Fox]

Of course it’s market forces, but it is also a piss poor educational message. I would never hire anyone based on skin color alone. In fact, I’d much prefer a reasonable Chinese English speaker with teaching skills over some unskilled person.

Anything after that is charged with prejudice. Lot’s of prejudice exists that still doesn’t make it acceptable. Just the reality.

[Charlie_Jack]

[quote=“bismarck”]I didn’t check the Chinese, but I think you’ll find that the highlighted “National” in your quote would indeed refer to Taiwanese citizens only in the Chinese version.[/quote] I’m not at all sure of myself on this point, and I’m not sure it’s important, but the word in the Chinese version of the Employment Services Act is 國民, which according to Google’s translation machine, babelfish, and the online version of Dr. Eye, means “national.” Both Google’s translation machine and babelfish translate 公民 as “citizen,” and the online Dr. Eye (dreye.com) translates it as both “citizen” and “national.”

To give an example of the distinction between “national” and “citizen,” here’s a December 2009 Taipei Times article about nationals who are not citizens: taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003459973

In any case, I don’t know what the OP’s status is.

Of course there’s no way of proving the following, but concerning the general issue under discussion here, certain of my experiences combined with what I’ve read on this board lead me to believe that as to cram schools, in the majority of these kinds of cases–whether the issue is pay or hiring–questions of experience, qualifications, level of fluency, good grammar, etc., do not usually come into play. I believe, rather, that people of Taiwanese ethnic heritage are treated differently by the cram school industry for the most part merely because they look Asian. (I want to emphasize that I’m not gainsaying the experiences of others, just stating my conclusions based on mine.) And to me, giving somebody lower pay merely on account of their skin color ain’t too cool, no matter what the excuse.

[Deuce_Dropper]

I thought this was all covered with the term ‘native speaker’.

Plenty of ABCs CBCs, BBCs etc… were born in an English speaking country but dropped Tai-yu and Jong-wen around the house for a few years before ever conversing in English.

If the school is looking for a ‘native speaker’ you might not qualify.

[for-a-samosa]

[quote=“Northcoast Surfer”][quote=“for-a-samosa”]To the original poster: I’m an “ABC” (try not to refer to myself as such, but Taiwanese just love their acronyms)[/quote]Were you born in America? Did you enter Taiwan on your US passport get a work permit and an ARC like other foreigners?

I’ve known many ethnic Chinese who were born in America from two Taiwanese parents, entered Taiwan on their American passports, secured employment teaching English with the same pay as any other foreigners.[/quote]

Yes, I was born in the States, I entered Taiwan on a US passport (I don’t have ROC nationality) and have an ARC. I totally agree that the ABC/CBC terms are misunderstood and abused…personally I consider myself American and call myself American, but I’ve learned here over the years that for many Taiwanese, an Asian who calls herself American – this idea _does_not_compute. Often because of my accented Mandarin, I get asked where I’m from. And I tell the truth. I’m American, born in St. Louis, raised in a small town in Ohio. Didn’t speak Chinese until I came to Taiwan and studied at the age of 23. But to the average Taiwanese, I’m not American – I’m just an “ABC,” lol…

But I think Deuce Dropper makes a good point – at the end of the day, the issue is about whether you’re a native speaker or not.

I think generalizing based on nationalities and passports doesn’t always work. There are always exceptions, going both ways. For example, I’ve met Taiwan-born naturalized Americans who have flawless accents and are fully adjusted and in-tune culturally – you can’t tell they were born outside of the US unless you ask; I’ve also met Americans of Chinese decent from LA or NYC who have never been outside of their 'hood. They have a slight accent and seem a bit “out of touch” with “mainstream” American culture.

[steelersman]

[quote=“marshmallow21”]For the purpose of being anonymous.
We will call this example: Language school ‘x’

Pay rates for SAME teaching level CBC + ‘White’ Face foreigner

CBC: 400NT (Automatic starting hourly pay) …after 1 year or so… pay increase between (20-50NT = 420-450NT)

‘White’ Face: 600NT (Automatic starting hourly pay)

Taiwanese teachers for lower level classes: 350NT (starting pay per hour)

I have seen ‘white’ faced foreigners hired because of their face colour and quite frankly, lack of any relevant teaching experience and it sickens me to know that they get paid more for being…well… white.

I am interesting in hearing other CBC’s take on this and to hear about their experiences.[/quote]

Actually some buxibans would rather hire inexperienced teachers to begin with since they are more likely to fit in and not give their opinions. The last think they want to do is hire someone who has studied education.

[steelersman]

[quote=“for-a-samosa”][quote=“Northcoast Surfer”][quote=“for-a-samosa”]To the original poster: I’m an “ABC” (try not to refer to myself as such, but Taiwanese just love their acronyms)[/quote]Were you born in America? Did you enter Taiwan on your US passport get a work permit and an ARC like other foreigners?

I’ve known many ethnic Chinese who were born in America from two Taiwanese parents, entered Taiwan on their American passports, secured employment teaching English with the same pay as any other foreigners.[/quote]

Yes, I was born in the States, I entered Taiwan on a US passport (I don’t have ROC nationality) and have an ARC. I totally agree that the ABC/CBC terms are misunderstood and abused…personally I consider myself American and call myself American, but I’ve learned here over the years that for many Taiwanese, an Asian who calls herself American – this idea _does_not_compute. Often because of my accented Mandarin, I get asked where I’m from. And I tell the truth. I’m American, born in St. Louis, raised in a small town in Ohio. Didn’t speak Chinese until I came to Taiwan and studied at the age of 23. But to the average Taiwanese, I’m not American – I’m just an “ABC,” lol…

But I think Deuce Dropper makes a good point – at the end of the day, the issue is about whether you’re a native speaker or not.

I think generalizing based on nationalities and passports doesn’t always work. There are always exceptions, going both ways. For example, I’ve met Taiwan-born naturalized Americans who have flawless accents and are fully adjusted and in-tune culturally – you can’t tell they were born outside of the US unless you ask; I’ve also met Americans of Chinese decent from LA or NYC who have never been outside of their 'hood. They have a slight accent and seem a bit “out of touch” with “mainstream” American culture.[/quote]

To some extent this is the problem. Some Chinese as well as other Asians in the United States do not speak standard English. Of course we can find some white people that this may also apply to.

[steelersman]

[quote=“Okami”]Might I suggest working for language school ‘y’

Better yet, maybe blaming all those Taiwanese with passports of convenience for accepting such shit wages and usually having equally shit English.

You can play the “white face” card all day, but at the end of the day without that $600/hr pay, you wouldn’t have that many white faces coming to this cultural, culinary and enviromental disaster called Taiwan. This is also a nice example of similar race discrimination. The fact that you or a CBC actually accepted such pay is a source of much amusement in the first place.[/quote]

In certain job settings being an ABC might actually get you a better job if you also have Taiwanese citizenship since then you can work in a kindergarten or a private high school. I have seen this happen.