Chinese-American wins kindergarten bias case

Work Teaching English in Taiwan
1

I have not seen this topic discussed on Forumosa. If it has, please move this post.

Here is an article that I thought provided justice to a “poor” non-Chinese speaking person who is stuck in Taiwan, married to a Taiwanese spouse and trying to earn a living. I mentioned this article to a close Taiwanese friend and got a surprisingly angry and passionate response.

I also feel this article clears up a bit about who is legal or not legal to work in a kindy. Here is the article…

taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/ … 2003511789

The angry reaction from my Taiwanese friend was taking side of the Kindy owner…

She said that the parents can never understand that a Chinese looking person could actually be “a native speaker”).
I replied that if a person grew up in America, they speak English and probably did not study Chinese no matter what their ethic background might be. For parents to believe that is just pure stupidity and ignorance. They must educate the parents to the truth.

She remarked that the Chinese American Teacher should then get on the phone and explain that to each and every one of those parents. The kindergarten owner is facing a brick wall. The parents won’t understand no matter how many times they are told. She also told of the many returning Taiwanese who spent time in the states, stated that they had improved thier English yet really never improved. (I’ve met some of them…!) These people used it on their resumes.

Now for the thoughtful part… She is right in some of these points I’ve spent many hours battling with parents and these parents sometimes don’t understand what it best or what kind of realistic service I could provide. Logic does not seem to work…
Is it the Kindergarten or any cram schools job to Change the attitude of the customers or give the customers what they want.
As for me, I’m no longer talking about anything with Taiwanese friends other than hobbies. … and anime.

2

“She said that the parents can never understand that a Chinese looking person could actually be “a native speaker””

A good way to piss her off is to ask, “Do you mean the parents are stupid? That doesn’t seem fair to assume.”

3

I found this to be most interesting:

Labor officials said that Article 46 of the Employment Services Act (就業服務法) states it is illegal for kindergartens to hire foreign staff, but may do so if the applicant fits the conditions outlined in Article 48 and Article 51. These conditions include permanent residency in Taiwan, marriage to a Taiwanese spouse, having lineal relatives with a registered residence or refugee status, the officials said.

That would make one think you could work at a kindy if you met those requirements. I never knew that…

4

Does Taiwan law prohibit employers from discriminating against employees based on their ethnicity? I wasn’t aware of that.

In the US, they’re prohibited from discriminating based on age, gender, religion, ethnicity, sexual orientation, marital status, physical or mental handicap, etc., under both federal and state law (same for landlords and hotel owners). But I wasn’t aware Taiwan had any comparable laws.

Can someone cite and quote the relevant law?

5

I recognize that, according to the article:

“Article 46 of the Employment Services Act (就業服務法) states it is illegal for kindergartens to hire foreign staff, but may do so if the applicant fits the conditions outlined in Article 48 and Article 51. These conditions include permanent residency in Taiwan, marriage to a Taiwanese spouse, having lineal relatives with a registered residence or refugee status, the officials said. Since Chang has lineal relatives living in the country, it is not illegal for him to work as an English teacher in a kindergarten, they said.”

In other words, apparently it was legal for the school to hire him. But, that doesn’t mean it was illegal for them to not hire him due to ethnicity. Is there a relevant law, prohibiting workplace discrimination in Taiwan?

6

Mod: you might want to combine this thread with the other one on the subject:

But I’ve been researching and still haven’t found any relevant law. Apparently it’s illegal for Taiwan employers to discriminate based on gender, physical handicap or being an aborigine, but I haven’t found reference to any law prohibiting discrimination based on race or ethnicity (aside from aborigines). And the articles only say the court found the employer guilty of bias.

Ok, so they were biased; but did they violate a law? Anyone know?

7

[quote=“creztor”]I found this to be most interesting:

Labor officials said that Article 46 of the Employment Services Act (就業服務法) states it is illegal for kindergartens to hire foreign staff, but may do so if the applicant fits the conditions outlined in Article 48 and Article 51. These conditions include permanent residency in Taiwan, marriage to a Taiwanese spouse, having lineal relatives with a registered residence or [color=#FF0000]refugee status[/color], the officials said.

That would make one think you could work at a kindy if you met those requirements. I never knew that…[/quote]
:roflmao: So if you’re a refugee, regardless of being an English speaker or not, you can legally teach at a kindergarten! But if you’re a fully qualified native speaker you get fined and deported!!! :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

8

[quote=“Puppet”]“She said that the parents can never understand that a Chinese looking person could actually be “a native speaker””

A good way to piss her off is to ask, “Do you mean the parents are stupid? That doesn’t seem fair to assume.”[/quote]

To be “fair”. You should hear what comes out of the mouth of many “educated” people here. I could site many examples right here. Take off your rose colored glasses before some breaks them.

Seriously does anyone else agree with what I see? Maybe I really live too far out in the country. When I use fact base arguments with people here and I win with proof, I get an angry… “you like to be right” response. So being right is not what I want.
Keeping my mouth shut and understanding is what I need…

What about this person? How did he get the job interview with an ethnically Chinese Name? The Kindy should have began the discrimination process right there, by not responding to his resume.
Are most parents that ignorant? It’s sad to say the answer may be yes. This board is rife with stories of Chinese looking people having trouble getting work at reasonable pay.
Whose responsibility is it to change their attitudes?

9

You’re not going to change the parents of that school by talking to an unrelated person, hence why I suggest pointing out her own faulty and bigoted stereotype.

10

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]Apparently it’s illegal for Taiwan employers to discriminate based on gender, physical handicap or being an aborigine, but I haven’t found reference to any law prohibiting discrimination based on race or ethnicity (aside from aborigines). And the articles only say the court found the employer guilty of bias.

Ok, so they were biased; but did they violate a law? Anyone know?[/quote]

There are laws concerning discrimination, but I don’t know much more than that.

This first one sort of sets the tone, but I don’t know what its specific implications are:

[quote]All citizens of the Republic of China, irrespective of sex, religion, race, class, or party affiliation, shall be equal before the law.[/quote]–Article 7, ROC Constitution (emphasis added)

This one is more specific, but I’m not sure how it would be applied:

[quote]For the purpose of ensuring national’s think that national here means ROC citizen–cj] equal opportunity in employment, Employer is prohibited from discriminating against any Job Applicant or Employee on the basis of race, class, language, thought, religion, political party, place of origin, place of birth, gender, gender orientation, age, marital status, appearance, facial features, disability, or past membership in any labor union; matters stated clearly in other laws shall be followed in priority.[/quote]–Article 5 (in pertinent part), Employment Services Act (emphasis and bracketed note added)

I don’t know whether the quote below can help with your question, but I’m posting it here just in case:

[quote=“Feiren”]Please notice that he filed his complaint with an administrative agency (New Taipei Employment Discrimination Committee), not a court.[/quote] Hot Diggity Dog: ABC Files Discrimination Charge Against Kindy - #11 by Feiren

11

[quote=“Taiwan_Student”][quote=“Puppet”]“She said that the parents can never understand that a Chinese looking person could actually be “a native speaker””

A good way to piss her off is to ask, “Do you mean the parents are stupid? That doesn’t seem fair to assume.”[/quote]

To be “fair”. You should hear what comes out of the mouth of many “educated” people here. I could site many examples right here. Take off your rose colored glasses before some breaks them.

Seriously does anyone else agree with what I see? Maybe I really live too far out in the country. When I use fact base arguments with people here and I win with proof, I get an angry… “you like to be right” response. So being right is not what I want.
Keeping my mouth shut and understanding is what I need…

What about this person? How did he get the job interview with an ethnically Chinese Name? The Kindy should have began the discrimination process right there, by not responding to his resume.
Are most parents that ignorant? It’s sad to say the answer may be yes. This board is rife with stories of Chinese looking people having trouble getting work at reasonable pay.
Whose responsibility is it to change their attitudes?[/quote]

Yes, but at the same time we see numerous examples of non-native English speakers trying to pass themselves off as native English speakers. That includes Caucasians, people of African decent, and ethnic Chinese.

12

None of these so-called discrimination laws work. They are only good on paper. In practice, they are rubbish! Just like the no smoking in public places law in Taiwan…useless!

13

It worked for guy in the article.

The question is…
Do parents really feel that a Chinese looking person is less valuable then a whitey?
If yes, should it be the kindergarten owner’s business to change the peoples’ opinion?

14

It worked for guy in the article.

The question is…
Do parents really feel that a Chinese looking person is less valuable then a whitey?
If yes, should it be the kindergarten owner’s business to change the peoples’ opinion?[/quote]

Cram school owners only care about making customers happy and making money.
They don’t have time to think about little things such as discrimination.

15

It worked for guy in the article.

The question is…
Do parents really feel that a Chinese looking person is less valuable then a whitey?
If yes, should it be the kindergarten owner’s business to change the peoples’ opinion?[/quote]

Cram school owners only care about making customers happy and making money.
They don’t have time to think about little things such as discrimination.[/quote]

Yep and if parents want only whitey to teach English, what’s stopping buxiban owners from satisfying them except for the law?

16

It worked for guy in the article.

The question is…
Do parents really feel that a Chinese looking person is less valuable then a whitey?
If yes, should it be the kindergarten owner’s business to change the peoples’ opinion?[/quote]

Cram school owners only care about making customers happy and making money.
They don’t have time to think about little things such as discrimination.[/quote]

Yep and if parents want only whitey to teach English, what’s stopping buxiban owners from satisfying them except for the law?[/quote]

And how do you prove that they are not discriminating against you?

It is a bit like when I did some part time work in a cram school. He asked me to sign a contract (English one) and I said I wanted to have someone look over the Chinese version [they always have 2 versions]
He said the Chinese version is too long and that if I wanted to be so picky about the contract issue… well… u can guess…

17

[quote=“marshmallow21”]
And how do you prove that they are not discriminating against you?

It is a bit like when I did some part time work in a cram school. He asked me to sign a contract (English one) and I said I wanted to have someone look over the Chinese version [they always have 2 versions]
He said the Chinese version is too long and that if I wanted to be so picky about the contract issue… well… u can guess…[/quote]

Love that 2nd contract thing! There is usually two of everything here in Taiwan. 2nd financial books, 2nd contracts and even 2nd laws. I don’t mind it at. I just mind the dishonesty towards me or the employee personally. You should of replied to the owner, I can’t put my name on anything I don’t understand. Hey, why are you being picky and care so much.

I get in trouble trying to impose my idea of “rightous” behavior on people, even if it is me just making a comment on something I read in the paper. It seems that if a person is being picked on, caught doing something wrong, or whatever, it’s not the person who actually does the wrong thing that is at fault. It is the one who rocked the boat, outed the wrong. or just destroyed the harmony.

Peace and happiness of the majority is more important than anything… it seems.

18

I think this begs the point, if an Asian-American is teaching (or trying to teach) English at a kindy in Taiwan, she or he is a utter embarrassment and shame to her parents, her honor, and her family. She should have been a professor, an accountant, lawyer, doctor, etc. She should be ashamed for even bringing attention to herself like this.

If a non-Asian-American does it, it’s ok, she is just exploring and that’s her culture anyways.

rofl

/sarcasm

19

I find there’s often very little justice in this country. It seems that if you have power, you’re allowed to exercise it ruthlessly and arbitrarily. There is rule of man, but not so much rule of law. When there’s doubt as to the right thing to do in the situation, it seems like if someone has the balls to act like a cunt in the first place then everyone else will just accept that as the new status quo (despite the fact that it has actually created disharmony). I don’t think it really has anything to do with harmony unless that’s defined (which it may well be here since I’m coming at this from a distinctly Western angle) as being a cunt does not ruin harmony, but standing up to a cunt does ruin harmony.

20

[quote=“Taiwan_Student”][quote=“marshmallow21”]
And how do you prove that they are not discriminating against you?

It is a bit like when I did some part time work in a cram school. He asked me to sign a contract (English one) and I said I wanted to have someone look over the Chinese version [they always have 2 versions]
He said the Chinese version is too long and that if I wanted to be so picky about the contract issue… well… u can guess…[/quote]

Love that 2nd contract thing! There is usually two of everything here in Taiwan. 2nd financial books, 2nd contracts and even 2nd laws. I don’t mind it at. I just mind the dishonesty towards me or the employee personally. You should of replied to the owner, I can’t put my name on anything I don’t understand. Hey, why are you being picky and care so much.

I get in trouble trying to impose my idea of “rightous” behavior on people, even if it is me just making a comment on something I read in the paper. It seems that if a person is being picked on, caught doing something wrong, or whatever, it’s not the person who actually does the wrong thing that is at fault. It is the one who rocked the boat, outed the wrong. or just destroyed the harmony.

Peace and happiness of the majority is more important than anything… it seems.[/quote]

This is the reason that I don’t sign any buxiban contract without understanding it (but fortunately I do).

It’s too bad marshmallow21 got the boot (I guessed) when he/she becomes picky. Unfortunately, no English teaching laowai has leverage over buxibans nowadays (i.e. replaceable).

Unless you got leverage over your current line of work, you’re basically at the mercy of the boss (and customers, of course).