Conspiracy discussion about 2004 Chen Shui-bian shooting

The fact that stocks were sold before the market closed that day has been documented but that’s not my area of expertise. You can look that up if you want. I’m not a big advocate of using stock sales before 1:30 P.M. to try to prove an external ballistics case is false or real. I just mentioned that the first lady appeared to have some knowledge of things.

The discussion above assumes that there were bullet(s) fired, and there were not that day. There is no indication that any bullet from any firearm was fired that day. Only projectiles of a different sort. The windshield hole does not indicate a round being fired through the windshield and certainly not from the outside of the jeep as they claim.

There were doctors and staff that noticed things about Chen’s clothing and smell and that’s okay. His clothing was prepared before he got into the hospital and from reports inside Chi-Mei he had the wound on his belly. Those people do not need to be in on it in order for things to work. They just need to do their job.

You really don’t know how they pulled this off, so you are making arguments based on what is hypothetical in your mind. As if I am suggesting something that is not possible. How can you say this or that isn’t possible inside Chi-Mei hospital without knowing what Chen’s body condition and clothing were before he entered Chi-Mei emergency?

Lu did not plan to get hit. I already said that she pretended to be hit after Sec. 3, but was a very bad actress about it. Then later on in the motorcade, she appears to have been hit by something very hard and she’s no longer acting. I am sure she didn’t know she was gonna get hit for real, but she was in serious pain when she entered Chi-Mei. If you look at Annette Lu’s fake behavior after the windshield hole appeared, then you will know that she reached for her knee in a fake manner.

After the windshield hole appeared, Chen’s jacket also has no damage or ointment to it where he allegedly was shot. There’s nothing on it and the video did a CU of it. Later on when they are on the way to Chi-Mei hospital, he appears to be wearing a different jacket. An older one and more wrinkled. This one has ointment on it and an apparent hole(s) in it. It’s not a well-fitting jacket. This means that Chen changed his jacket from a normal one to one with damage to it during the motorcade.

Everyone in the jeep would be aware of it if he changed his jacket including Lu. Just look at the pictures yourself. He’s not wearing the same jacket when he enters Chi-Mei hospital and his original jacket had no damage to it after there was a hole in the windshield. Total screw up.

How come every person who does not think something like this could be done, never wants to look at any pictures or video of the actual incident itself. They just turn their minds off.

On March 18, Chen and Lu were behind by 1.5 million ballots. After the incident, the gap was reduced to 800,000 to 900,000 ballots in favor of Lien. Then the next day they rigged around 800,00-900,000 ballots and won the election by 29,514 ballots or so. After the incident I will remind you, the DPP was doing polls. They were really interested in finding the “shooter”. They were doing opinion polls to see if they had a better chance of winning the election. That’s the DPP for you. Their supporters outside of the campaign office were thrilled Chen was “shot” because they suddenly had a better chance of winning the election. That’s DPP supporters for you. Real or fake, whatever it takes to win. People placed in the media by the CSB government were thrilled because it meant they could hold on to their jobs if Chen was reelected. This was reported by people in the media that the CSB appointees in supposedly pan blue TV stations that were manipulating the news from inside so-called KMT media were happy they could keep their jobs because they were about to leave their jobs pending a victory by Lien and Soong as everyone expected.

So the 319 incident helped the CSB administration by swinging about 4% of the vote towards them, and the election fraud that they had planned in advance got them to home plate so they could be in power for another 4 years. Later on, when the election was discussed, everyone just sort of conveniently said it was the impact of the incident that helped Chen win reelection because it’s too complicated and biased to say the election was rigged also and the evidence was in the hands of the CEC which they would not publicize because its the voter’s privacy that matters and the evil KMT will use the voter lists to buy ballots in the upcoming 2004 legislative election which they won and were immediately accused of using the voter lists to buy votes.

So I am saying the incident helped decrease the gap between Chen and Lien AND it helped them have a convenient explanation for winning the election so everyone wouldn’t say it was election fraud.

If there was no 319 incident and just reports of fraud, then everyone would say it was fraud. The incident helped confuse things enough so that the majority of the public will point to that incident instead of fraud because they don’t understand how election fraud is done very much. They just know an incident occurred the day before.

If you would like to know more details and how I got them, then meet me at Alleycats or something. If you are a really open-minded person that wants to know the truth, then open up your mind and don’t distort what I am writing here to make me sound crazy or something. I don’t distort what anyone writes here by quoting 1 sentence from a paragraph to make them sound crazy, but people are doing that to my posts. It’s really a waste of my time. I just hope that some foreigners coming on this forum will not be totally influenced purely by the official DPP point of view of everything.

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Betelnut, there is a well known phenomenon where the addition of new information does not help in reaching the right conclusion as to the cause of an event. I think you reached that a long time ago. Please re read your statements. They get more out there as you progress.

Now you say the 1st lady sold her stock JUST minutes before the shooting and then they conducted this fiasco of a shooting just to cover up election fraud the next day. You also say the hospital director was the only one to be in on it, so how could they prevent the possibility of other doctors or medical personnel observing Chen BEFORE he got treated, let alone after. Annette Lu, claims to be the target, well yes that fits with everything I have seen about her meaning she doesn’t like Chen getting all the limelight. Lu and Chen were not best buddies, you could tell that quite easily by her interviews and she seemed to get ignored a lot, there is no way I believe she was in on this shooting. Apart from that she is a woman and women usually don’t go for crazy ass shooting at themselves shit. Chen, yeah I can believe that.

Sorry I think the simpler explanation is easier to accept, either gunman with a grudge or a small shooting plot directed by Chen and his trusted aides personally.The purpose if Chen rigged it was to swing votes, not cover up election fraud![/quote]

Some circles believe it was an attempted coup d’etat. case closed.

.

A coup by whom? According to law, the presidential election would be halted the next day if a presidential candidate is killed. The DPP would still be the ruling party. Being ahead by 1.5 million ballots, the KMT would not need to do such a thing to get into office. An incident designed to just create a story and sympathy serves only to help the ruling party get reelected.

[quote=“Betelnut”]A coup by whom? According to law, the presidential election would be halted the next day if a presidential candidate is killed. The DPP would still be the ruling party. Being ahead by 1.5 million ballots, the KMT would not need to do such a thing to get into office. An incident designed to just create a story and sympathy serves only to help the ruling party get reelected.

in point of fact (and as I recall) a coup d’etat was discussed by some hardline sectors of the KMT and calls were made to high ranking military to see if there was sufficient support for some such shenanigans. There wasn’t and democracy prevailed (or not depending on who you believe).

Don’t a lot of people buy/sell a lot of their stocks during the opening and closing times of the stock exchange?

The other poster was referring to whether the 319 incident was an attempted coup by the KMT I assume.

The allegations regarding senior generals wanting the current generals to stand down and not recognize CSB as president is something that happened or allegedly happened after the election. I don’t know if they wanted to seize the president and arrest him or just not recognize him, and I wasn’t able to confirm if any of it happened or not, but we need to take into consideration that CSB had just faked an assassination attempt, prevented military officers from voting, and rigged the election and was not allowing an immediate recount. On top of that the PRC was making preparations (actual preparations) to attack Taiwan because of the election.

Given these circumstances, and that the loyalty of the generals is to the ROC government, CSB was not only illegally extending his stay in the Presidential Office, but was also endangering the country by potentially prompting an eventual attack from the PLA due to the fact that a rigged election by the DPP government essentially means that the U.S. is dead serious about pursuing a path of Taiwan Independence.

Democracy did not prevail by them doing it or not doing it if they wanted to do it. Democracy already failed the day before when the ruling party took the people’s choice out of their hands and put it in theirs.

If they were planning on forcibly removing Chen from office, it appears that it turned out not to be better that they didn’t because Ma was given a fair election in '08 and a normal change in power is better than a forced one, but if Ma had gotten cheated or assassinated in '08, then the general’s alleged actions would appear more justified.

Ma Ying-Jeou and the people close to him were the only people in the pan blue camp against the lawsuits and everything else that was going on because he wanted to run for president in '08. That’s why the DPP was praising the Taipei City Mayor for helping them illegally hold on to power. Fortunately, for Ma, it worked out for him. His use of the police force to beat down the people on April 10 worked out for him and the pressure was relieved on the Chen government.

Fellas, people in the military have to think on a different level than the rest of this. When the DPP is fooling around rigging elections for the executive power, it’s a serious issue. With Taiwan’s security in danger, I don’t really blame the generals for thinking of doing something like that if they were. Of course, they deny it, but if they were, it was arguably the right thing to do at the time.

Back when the KMT rigged local elections, Dangwai supporters wanted to charge the CEC. This was all in the name of democracy. How come when it happens the other way around, those who can’t accept a rigged election are obstructing democracy? It’s just about having the DPP in power. There is no real democratic principle in the green camp.

Lee Tung-Hui says it better than anyone. Taiwanese got to be their own masters. What he means is the highest morale value is for Taiwanese (Minnan) to be in the central government by hook or by crook. And he saw to that in 2000 and Chen continued this trend in 2004.

I guess you can hardly blame CKS for not wanting to give political power to the Taiwanese back in his days. The minute CCK gave the executive to a Taiwanese person, he immediately backstabbed him and started working towards giving Taiwan to Japan and then later towards independence. Of course CCK just picked the wrong Taiwanese person in Lee. He unknowingly picked a Japanese person.

CCK was the person who actually wanted Taiwan to be democratic and Lee and Chen just undermined things when they got the power. It took 20 years from 1988 to 2008 for the Taiwan Independence joke to be over.

[quote=“the bear”][quote=“Betelnut”]A coup by whom? According to law, the presidential election would be halted the next day if a presidential candidate is killed. The DPP would still be the ruling party. Being ahead by 1.5 million ballots, the KMT would not need to do such a thing to get into office. An incident designed to just create a story and sympathy serves only to help the ruling party get reelected.

in point of fact (and as I recall) a coup d’etat was discussed by some hardline sectors of the KMT and calls were made to high ranking military to see if there was sufficient support for some such shenanigans. There wasn’t and democracy prevailed (or not depending on who you believe).[/quote]

I’m actually finding it a little bit depressing that so many are seeing the “facts” about the shooting through a distorted partisan lens, and coming up with the result that their political view supports.

Having looked into the matter (not a great deal, but enough to satisfy me), I admit that I can’t reach a hard and fast conclusion either way. It could have been a straight-up botched assassin attempt by a nutcase, just as the DPP faithful insist. However, Ah-Bien is (in my opinion) a sneaky little shit who would pull any political stunt he thought he could get away with. And an awful lot of remarkably convenient “coincidences” occurred that day, not to mention the convenient “suicide” of the accused perpetrator some time later. Nevertheless, pulling off a conspiracy like this, which would require several accomplices, would have been very tricky with a considerable risk of getting caught. I’m not sure even Ah-Bien would be able to organize this and get away with it.

So again, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and say, “I don’t know.”

[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]I’m actually finding it a little bit depressing that so many are seeing the “facts” about the shooting through a distorted partisan lens, and coming up with the result that their political view supports.

Having looked into the matter (not a great deal, but enough to satisfy me), I admit that I can’t reach a hard and fast conclusion either way. It could have been a straight-up botched assassin attempt by a nutcase, just as the DPP faithful insist. However, Ah-Bien is (in my opinion) a sneaky little shit who would pull any political stunt he thought he could get away with. And an awful lot of remarkably convenient “coincidences” occurred that day, not to mention the convenient “suicide” of the accused perpetrator some time later. Nevertheless, pulling off a conspiracy like this, which would require several accomplices, would have been very tricky with a considerable risk of getting caught. I’m not sure even Ah-Bien would be able to organize this and get away with it.

So again, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and say, “I don’t know.”[/quote]

You would be warming the cockles of Joseph Goebbels heart with that, even whilst he’s dead.

[quote=“Fox”][quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]I’m actually finding it a little bit depressing that so many are seeing the “facts” about the shooting through a distorted partisan lens, and coming up with the result that their political view supports.

Having looked into the matter (not a great deal, but enough to satisfy me), I admit that I can’t reach a hard and fast conclusion either way. It could have been a straight-up botched assassin attempt by a nutcase, just as the DPP faithful insist. However, Ah-Bien is (in my opinion) a sneaky little shit who would pull any political stunt he thought he could get away with. And an awful lot of remarkably convenient “coincidences” occurred that day, not to mention the convenient “suicide” of the accused perpetrator some time later. Nevertheless, pulling off a conspiracy like this, which would require several accomplices, would have been very tricky with a considerable risk of getting caught. I’m not sure even Ah-Bien would be able to organize this and get away with it.

So again, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and say, “I don’t know.”[/quote]

You would be warming the cockles of Joseph Goebbels heart with that, even whilst he’s dead.[/quote]

So you would be happier if I simply took a position based on my partisan political preferences? Thus:

A) I support the KMT, so Chen definitely staged the assassination attempt, or

B) I support the DPP, so Chen is totally innocent, and in fact the assassination attempt was orchestrated by the KMT.

Kind of like the way global warming is debated in the USA:

A) I’m a Republican, so global warming is a hoax, or

B) I’m a Democrat, so global warming is real.

See, no need for facts, and no uncertainty. Everything is black and white. That sure makes life simpler. Thus, you can fit an entire political debate onto a bumper sticker.

What a lot of nonsense. I have looked at the case. It was discussed ad nauseum at the time, and fcom was lucky to have has some serious journalists at the time giving us insight. There have been multiple investigations into the shooting. None, none, not a single one, has concluded it was self-inflicted.

I think Chen is a cretin but don’t believe he shot himself because the preponderance of evidence suggests he didn’t. Will I ever be 100% sure? Of course not. You can’t be. Just like you’ll never be 100% sure of most things in this world. But there’s a difference between holding on to uncertainty when it’s warranted, and holding on because you are afraid of being seen as partisan, or to show how clever, above-it-all, you are, or conversely, simply because you lack the intelligence to know when doubt is meaningless.

Sorry, but you are just projecting here. I am not in any way influenced by my politics on this case.

[quote=“Betelnut”]Lee Tung-Hui says it better than anyone. Taiwanese got to be their own masters. What he means is the highest morale value is for Taiwanese (Minnan) to be in the central government by hook or by crook. And he saw to that in 2000 and Chen continued this trend in 2004.I guess you can hardly blame CKS for not wanting to give political power to the Taiwanese back in his days. The minute CCK gave the executive to a Taiwanese person, he immediately backstabbed him and started working towards giving Taiwan to Japan and then later towards independence. Of course CCK just picked the wrong Taiwanese person in Lee. He unknowingly picked a Japanese person.

CCK was the person who actually wanted Taiwan to be democratic and Lee and Chen just undermined things when they got the power. It took 20 years from 1988 to 2008 for the Taiwan Independence joke to be over.
[/quote] Wow, what a skew-job that whole rant was. Yeah, you could go as far as saying that CCK wanted Taiwan to be democratic but it certainly wasn’t out of the generosity of his heart - rather it was out of survival and even as part of his strategy to try and recover the mainland. As long as the US was standing behind Taiwan there was no incentive to give up power, but after the US recognition of China and the increasing diplomatic isolation of Taiwan he needed a new strategy.

stanford.edu/group/sjeaa/jou … china2.pdf

[quote]"During the inaugural ceremony of Taiwan’s new Taiwanese governor, CCK emphasized the importance of societal harmony (ren-he) in achieving national unity, and outlined his vision of developing Taiwan into a democratic society as a
means to recover the mainland. CCK stated: “ . . . national unity can only be achieved through ethnic harmony (jen-he). The union of Taiwan’s 15 million people is strong enough to not only guarantee Taiwan’s security, but also to achieve our historical mission of second Northern Expedition [return to the mainland]. In the past, Guangzhou was the base for the victorious Northern Expedition, and Chongqing was the base for our victorious resistance against the Japanese invasion; now Taiwan is the base for victorious return to the mainland. To make greater strides in developing Taiwan today, we must strengthen our democratic political system to ensure that everyone in Taiwan enjoys a freer and more prosperous life in marked contrast to the miserable life under the Communist regime.”[/quote]

So if it’s been proven without a shadow of a doubt, why are we having this thread on Forumosa?

[quote]I think Chen is a cretin but don’t believe he shot himself because the preponderance of evidence suggests he didn’t. Will I ever be 100% sure? Of course not. You can’t be. Just like you’ll never be 100% sure of most things in this world.
[/quote]

Yeah, just like I said - we can’t be sure.

[quote]But there’s a difference between holding on to uncertainty when it’s warranted, and holding on because you are afraid of being seen as partisan, or to show how clever, above-it-all, you are, or conversely, simply because you lack the intelligence to know when doubt is meaningless.
[/quote]

Now this conversation is starting to break down. Sigh… You need to stop taking every post as a personal attack, and replying with a personal attack. Stay calm.

Did you think that I was projecting on you? I was responding to a post by Fox who seemed to be suggesting that I’m a good Nazi (his Goebbels quote) because I don’t know if the shooting was a set-up or not. And I responded to him politely, despite his rather rude assertion. So no, I’m not “projecting” on you.

Wanted to add, MM, that I’m glad we at least we agree on Chen Shuibian. I think the little creep did enormous harm to the DPP. His shadow is still cast over the party.

By the way, I’m proud of my non-partisanship. I wear it on my sleeve. Not only in Taiwan, but in the USA when I lived there. I hate party politics. The bitter divisiveness literally tears apart families, as well as countries. It’s modern-day tribalism - all that’s missing are the crossbows and stone axes. I wish there were no political parties, if that was possible.

‘I have looked at the case.’

Oh, in that case, Mr. Holmes, we can all rest easy tonight.

[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”][quote=“Fox”][quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]I’m actually finding it a little bit depressing that so many are seeing the “facts” about the shooting through a distorted partisan lens, and coming up with the result that their political view supports.

Having looked into the matter (not a great deal, but enough to satisfy me), I admit that I can’t reach a hard and fast conclusion either way. It could have been a straight-up botched assassin attempt by a nutcase, just as the DPP faithful insist. However, Ah-Bien is (in my opinion) a sneaky little shit who would pull any political stunt he thought he could get away with. And an awful lot of remarkably convenient “coincidences” occurred that day, not to mention the convenient “suicide” of the accused perpetrator some time later. Nevertheless, pulling off a conspiracy like this, which would require several accomplices, would have been very tricky with a considerable risk of getting caught. I’m not sure even Ah-Bien would be able to organize this and get away with it.

So again, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and say, “I don’t know.”[/quote]

No. You can just look at the facts and make up your own mind. It wasn’t something that required a great deal of scrutiny. That’s what all the examinations of the case found even MM’s.

You would be warming the cockles of Joseph Goebbels heart with that, even whilst he’s dead.[/quote]

So you would be happier if I simply took a position based on my partisan political preferences? Thus:

A) I support the KMT, so Chen definitely staged the assassination attempt, or

B) I support the DPP, so Chen is totally innocent, and in fact the assassination attempt was orchestrated by the KMT.

Kind of like the way global warming is debated in the USA:

A) I’m a Republican, so global warming is a hoax, or

B) I’m a Democrat, so global warming is real.

See, no need for facts, and no uncertainty. Everything is black and white. That sure makes life simpler. Thus, you can fit an entire political debate onto a bumper sticker.[/quote]

[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]…Now this conversation is starting to break down. Sigh… You need to stop taking every post as a personal attack, and replying with a personal attack. Stay calm.
[/quote]

I don’t. I know what a personal attack feels like, and what you said wasn’t one. Neither was my response. Surely to god adults can argue with a touch of force and sarcasm and not be accused of verbal terrorism.

Like fox. He knows how to take it as much as dish it out. I always like arguing with him as you can call him a loon and he comes back with a better dig, plus a good counter argument. It’s fun.

[quote=“Mucha Man”][quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]…Now this conversation is starting to break down. Sigh… You need to stop taking every post as a personal attack, and replying with a personal attack. Stay calm.
[/quote]

I don’t. I know what a personal attack feels like, and what you said wasn’t one. Neither was my response. Surely to god adults can argue with a touch of force and sarcasm and not be accused of verbal terrorism.

Like fox. He knows how to take it as much as dish it out. I always like arguing with him as you can call him a loon and he comes back with a better dig, plus a good counter argument. It’s fun.[/quote]

OK, agree.

What do you mean “he didn’t shoot himself”? Does that mean he didn’t have a lone shooter take a shot at him in a moving jeep?

He has a wound on his belly that can either be created before or after the incident supposedly occurred. That’s all. No one is suggesting that he had himself shot in a moving jeep. I already explained that there’s no damage to his jacket after the incident supposedly occurred. You should be able to see some kind of damage to his jacket after the so-called hot area, and there isn’t until later in the motorcade.

So please be clear when you say “self-inflicted”. There’s no injury to Chen during the motorcade. That much is true. There appears to be a voluntary injury made to his belly before or after the motorcade. It the injury did not occur during the motorcade, then that means, the incident itself was staged by him.

What multiple investigations? The CIB looked only for an alleged shooter based on casings that were probably planted on the street and the ballistic evidence does not add up to Chen having been shot at all, nor does his wound look like it could have been made only by a grazing gunshot wound.

Only Dr. Lee’s team was allowed to see the physical evidence and the things they said did not confirm that it was a real shooting incident. They just tried to frame it as a real one as much as possible by emphasizing certain parts of it as best they could.

So what we have here are sketchy photos of a supposed incident that do not add up to a real assassination attempt. While the CIB was able to gather up evidence themselves without disclosing it to the public so that a staged shooting incident was not exposed, the evidence brought forth to the public does not suggest that a real shooting incident occurred.

The physical evidence does not match up like a normal shooting incident would. He’s got no blood on his underwear. He has 2 bullet like holes in his jacket instead of 1. The 2nd hole was later deleted via Photoshop. He has no blood on the underside of his dress shirt despite the fact there was blood on his undershirt. The 2 bullet heads used appear to be old and not recently fired rounds.

When “other” ballistic experts look at Dr. Lee’s report, these are the things that they notice. But of course, none of those experts have access to the physical evidence. Only Dr. Lee’s team does and they aren’t mentioning those things because they were not here to cast doubt on the incident. They were here to make the incident look as real as possible just like O.J. Simpson’s defense team painted the LADP cop as having planted blood evidence to frame Simpson for murder. Dr. Lee was well-paid for that also.

[quote=“Mucha Man”]What a lot of nonsense. I have looked at the case. It was discussed ad nauseum at the time, and fcom was lucky to have has some serious journalists at the time giving us insight. There have been multiple investigations into the shooting. None, none, not a single one, has concluded it was self-inflicted.

I think Chen is a cretin but don’t believe he shot himself because the preponderance of evidence suggests he didn’t. Will I ever be 100% sure? Of course not. You can’t be. Just like you’ll never be 100% sure of most things in this world. But there’s a difference between holding on to uncertainty when it’s warranted, and holding on because you are afraid of being seen as partisan, or to show how clever, above-it-all, you are, or conversely, simply because you lack the intelligence to know when doubt is meaningless.

Sorry, but you are just projecting here. I am not in any way influenced by my politics on this case.[/quote]

It’s not that simple that pan blue supporters automatically think the incident was staged and green supporters think the KMT did it.

Most pan blue supporters think Chen staged it and Lu was innocent or not innocent. Some pan blue supporters think it was real because they look at thing from the anti-conspiracy point of view which is that there must have been too many people in on it in order for it to be staged. Of course, none of those people have looked into the incident but just assume that everyone in Chi-Mei hospital must be in on it.

Among the green supporters, most also believe it was staged but aren’t particularly upset about it or don’t want to admit to it depending on who you are. If you’re a foreigner, they wouldn’t want you to think their leader would do something like that to get elected. If you already get the gist and that you know its fake and you don’t want to be fooled, then they might admit it to you that it was fake and everyone knows it was fake.

Then there’s also a small percentage of green supporters that think its real like for REAL. I mean, most of them prefer to lie about it and say its real when they know its fake.

So if you put the entire group together plus middle of the road people who are also split in their thinking, then I’d say about 75% of the population in Taiwan thinks its fake regardless of political affiliation, and about 25% think its real regardless of political affiliation. Of course, a lot of people say they don’t know so they don’t risk offending anyone, but most people pretty much lean one way or the other.

One of my friends who worked in the Pres. Office as an assistant to someone there, would always say how he didn’t like how the pan blue camp always say the incident was staged and yet have no proof. No proof, means no conclusions and they shouldn’t make conclusions without them.

However, once I asked him if he thought the pictures and video of provided by the government looked real, he couldn’t say anything. Because it doesn’t look real. People who want to defend the Chen administration can only say “no proof”, but they have a hard time justifying to themselves that the evidence shown to the public looks real.

So if it doesn’t look real, then it’s fake basically!

Later on my friend kept saying it that way, and then I found out that he told my other friend that he thought the incident was VERY OBVIOUSLY staged and that there’s no way it could be real. He was so ashamed of it and just didn’t know what to do about it.

So he’s just one person, but I am not way off base when I am saying most green Taiwanese people think the incident was fake because they have the same common sense as every other person. They just have their historical dislike for the KMT and want their party in power. It’s just politics as usual.

[quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”][quote=“Fox”][quote=“Dog’s_Breakfast”]I’m actually finding it a little bit depressing that so many are seeing the “facts” about the shooting through a distorted partisan lens, and coming up with the result that their political view supports.

Having looked into the matter (not a great deal, but enough to satisfy me), I admit that I can’t reach a hard and fast conclusion either way. It could have been a straight-up botched assassin attempt by a nutcase, just as the DPP faithful insist. However, Ah-Bien is (in my opinion) a sneaky little shit who would pull any political stunt he thought he could get away with. And an awful lot of remarkably convenient “coincidences” occurred that day, not to mention the convenient “suicide” of the accused perpetrator some time later. Nevertheless, pulling off a conspiracy like this, which would require several accomplices, would have been very tricky with a considerable risk of getting caught. I’m not sure even Ah-Bien would be able to organize this and get away with it.

So again, all I can do is shrug my shoulders and say, “I don’t know.”[/quote]

You would be warming the cockles of Joseph Goebbels heart with that, even whilst he’s dead.[/quote]

So you would be happier if I simply took a position based on my partisan political preferences? Thus:

A) I support the KMT, so Chen definitely staged the assassination attempt, or

B) I support the DPP, so Chen is totally innocent, and in fact the assassination attempt was orchestrated by the KMT.

Kind of like the way global warming is debated in the USA:

A) I’m a Republican, so global warming is a hoax, or

B) I’m a Democrat, so global warming is real.

See, no need for facts, and no uncertainty. Everything is black and white. That sure makes life simpler. Thus, you can fit an entire political debate onto a bumper sticker.[/quote]