Coronavirus Vaccine Discussion

What do you mean I “don’t agree with the paper”? I didn’t find any fault with it. Apart from the fact that it doesn’t address comorbidities, it’s fine as far as it goes. I’m suggesting that, if the CDC or anyone else is using that paper to suggest that being pregnant exposes you to a level of risk from COVID that merits taking a minimally-tested vaccine, then they’re not just twisting the facts, they’ve broken the facts on the wheel and chucked the remains in the river.

You implied that pregnant women are “at high risk” of dying from COVID (“Kids growing up without a mother is no joke”).

That paper clearly shows that pregnant women are not at measurably higher risk of contracting and dying of COVID compared to other women in that agegroup; and furthermore that that risk (a) accounts for less than 2% of their all-cause risk and (b) is comparable to their risk of being killed by vaccination … although since nobody has bothered properly testing the vaccine on pregnant women, we have to assume that risk of vaccination death is the same as for the population at large. That paper also shows, surprisingly, that their child is not at risk either. Did you even read it?

The paper you quoted suggests that this doesn’t happen.

You don’t need to be an epidemiologist to look at statistics and make sense of them.

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Being vaccinated protects women from covid to a degree.
Pregnant women will stand to be protected more if they are vaccinated.
Not very complicated is it.
And a pregnant woman with serious case of covid is obviously going to cause all kinds of complications.
And overweight people are more susceptible to covid.
Some docs say.the weight of the baby presses up against the lungs making it more difficult for them to breath.

Apart from that paper above there are plenty of other papers to dig into.

There’s obviously lots of reasons why a pregnant woman (or any woman) should be vaccinated.

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Sometimes you do.

I’m not talking about whether pregnant women suffer from catching Covid. That’s obvious. You actually stated, and I quote:

Of what? Of being sick after getting Covid? Or now you’re saying they are at ‘high risk’ of Covid complications?

That they may or may not be of being ‘high risk’ of complications from Covid was not my claim. And that was not my question to you. You made the statement, so what did you mean?

Pregnant women are not at ‘high risk’ of getting Covid, as confirmed by UK govt link above.

So, to be perfectly clear, are you saying that pregnant women are at ‘high risk’ of catching Covid? If so, where’s your evidence? If not, please make this clear. Your original claim and statement was quite ambiguous.

We all know that Covid can make people sick, pregnant mothers included. I know quite well that having Covid whilst pregnant can be more dangerous.

Regardless, of the actual stats on that particular point, I don’t believe that losing one’s mother via Covid is any less devastating than losing one’s mother from Covid vaccine side effect. It’s all devastating loss.

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Likely because of decreasing incidence from vaccination and NPIs…
Absent these factors, the absolute risk increases as well. Don’t get me wrong, I’d also want to weigh the risks if I were pregnant, although I’d also probably be vaccinated before getting pregnant anyway. Not that that’s always an option, of course.

One has much higher than than another…Fact.

The risk from catching covid is much higher than the risk from the vaccine.
Also a pregnant woman with serious covid is a nightmare.

None of this is complicated to understand.

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Considering a growing body of evidence indicating that pregnant women are more likely to have certain manifestations of severe COVID-19 illness, including admission to the ICU and mechanical ventilation, the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) has [urged the CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices](What About Pregnant Women and the COVID-19 Vaccine?) to include pregnant and lactating women in the high-priority populations for COVID-19 vaccine allocation. ACOG clearly states that all pregnant and lactating people should be allowed to receive the vaccine, and that their decision to do so should be based on a careful discussion of risks and benefits with their healthcare provider.

From our vantage point, there are other benefits to the COVID-19 vaccine. During the past year, before the vaccination was available, we watched as pregnant and postpartum patients undertook the most extreme forms of lockdown. Many of these women were literally housebound: never leaving the house and cutting off contact with friends and family, while at the same time taking on more childcare responsibilities as outside care providers and day care centers were no longer available. And all the while wondering what would happen if they or a member of their family felt ill?

You keep saying this, but the data shows no such thing. Apart from anything else, the vaccine risks are largely unknown because nobody is bothering to even measure it - we can only take very rough guesses from what little data is available.

The women in the study had a risk of death of approximately 20 per million. As far as I can make out, that’s the same as the risk of death from vaccines. Plus or minus. It’s also the same as the risk of COVID death faced by non-pregnant women around 29 years old.

Of course there are various other risks involved in this scenario, but you were focusing on death in your original comment.

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Maybe you lot magically know better than the professionals in the CDC in the US, in the UK, in Australia , American association of obstetricians and gynaecologists.

I don’t think so though. :sunglasses: They clearly state the issue above.

Besides it’s obvious as hell that a pregnant woman who catches covid is going to cause massive worry…if it progresses to serious covid it’s going to be a nightmare for the mother and can cause premature delivery.

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I’m quoting directly from the paper you linked to. It seems to be you who disagrees with it.

Since the paper states that the risk is low, and gives figures to back it up, the only logical conclusion is that the CDC is deliberately misrepresenting the facts.

“worry” is not the same thing as a hard endpoint like death.

Are we going with the “if you repeat it often enough it becomes true” strategy here?

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It’s low overall but higher than the general population according to the reviews.
And they are all recommending that pregnant women be vaccinated.
And if they get covid symptoms they sure as help will wish they were vaccinated . Plus the vaccine does reduce chance of infection.

Nope. Look up the numbers.

um … yes.

So once again you are smarter than the professionals.
How does this keep happening ! :grin::wink:

You’ve obviously read through the body of literature and done your own meta analysis.
Right ?

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I dunno. Maybe it’s because I read the numbers in front of me instead of making stuff up to suit whatever the CDC agenda is?

If you think the numbers I’m quoting here are wrong then you’re free to look them up for yourself and post a correction. Why can’t you ever do that? An appeal to authority is a pretty poor argument.

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One what? Has “much higher” than another what?

What does this sentence even mean?

Oh, do you mean, “For pregnant women, there is a higher risk of suffering serious illness and/or death after contracting Covid, than the chances of suffering serious illness/ death from vaccine side effects?” Is that what you’re trying to say? The odds of getting sick and dying of Covid (for pregnant women) are higher than the odds of them getting sick and dying from Covid vaccine? It is not clear what your point is.

Your original statement has no clarification. At all. It just said:

Hish risk? Of what? It is absolutely unclear.

Your original statement could have easily have been interpreted as saying you believed pregnant women are at high risk of contracting/getting Covid. A claim which has been thoroughly debunked as absolute rubbish.

In any case, not enough data has been collected on this topic of Covid and pregnancy to be certain. We will have to see - if twice yearly/ monthly/ weekly booster shots are made mandatory, exactly what the long-term effects Covid vaccines have on unborn children and mothers’ health outcomes.

Additionally, once the initial promotional campaigns for these vaccines are over, we may well see more open and transparent reporting of actual side effects, across all demographics. For example, almost 800 deaths after Covid vaccines have occurred just in Taiwan, with zero autopsy information published. At some point, we may (a big may) have access to that data.

Probably not though. I suspect a lot of under-reporting of Covid vaccine deaths is actually going on, with cause of death being way too swiftly attributed to ‘comorbidities’ in these cases. In contrast to ‘deaths by Covid’ which are reported sans comorbidity information, despite being an incredibly significant contributor in these deaths.

And even in the UK, no positive Covid test is required to stamp any Covid death as ‘by/with/from’ Covid, which in turn makes the entire validity of 134k reported Covid deaths there quite sketchy.

As is a pregnant woman dying by Covid vaccine. It’s not a less devastating death.

Well, when you don’t make it clear what you’re even claiming…

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Never mind the naysayers and anti vaxxers out there folks.

Get real and get vaccinated !

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Never mind the guilt-trippers and pro-vaxxers out there folks.

Get real. 99.94% of the world hasn’t died of Covid. Get vaxxed if you want to, but make your own decisions, and in consultation with your own trusted doctor. Live healthier now and significantly reduce your risk of getting sick “from Covid!” Don’t be guilt-tripped by those pushing agendas for profit that may harm you!

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What I don’t get is why you anti-vaxxers care so much if other people get vaxxed or not. We pro-vaxxers care because we believe mass vaccinations are the only way we’re going to beat Covid and get back to normal anytime soon. You anti-vaxxers believe vaccinations are useless at best or will maybe kill 0.06% of the world’s population, at worst. What’s the big deal for you guys?

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It’s a risk either way. If that “0.06%” happened to you or your loved ones, you would be singing a different tune.

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You haven’t been paying attention. At all. Where do I say I’m anti-vax? I’m not anti-vax. Where have I said, “Don’t get the vax!”? I’m pro-informed decisions based on science, and not on scare tactics or guilt-tripping.

You think ‘pro-vaxxers’ have a monopoly on ‘caring?’ :rofl:

Again wrong.

Patently false.

That’s been stated a million times here on this forum. What’s the big deal for you guys? :thinking:

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