Cultural Violence

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
1

I read on another post a comment that had me wondering. The poster stated that Taiwan isn’t a very violent society,or maybe the Taiwanese aren’t very prone to being violent(sic).

How true is this, given the latest news with the slasher and the death of the 4 yr old girl. I occasionally read the tabloid newspaper “The Apple Daily” and while it’s their modus operandum to fill their pages with violent stories, I wonder how not far of the mark they are in actually portraying what really goes on in Taiwan.

Being American, I notice that I am rather desensitized to violence but I do occasionally think that in Taiwan violence can be more brutal than it is in the West. Could this be that in the West I can understand the rational/motivations behind the violent acts?

What is/would be the criteria for society to be ‘violent’?(aside from the obvious) Any thoughts?

2

Perhaps we could say that Taiwan is a non-threatening or non-confrontational society.

One thing I notice right away when I go back home is the tension in the air. People’s emotions are usually right out there so you feel aggression everywhere. In Taiwan it is rare for people on the street to give off attitude.

If you get angry at someone, even a young guy, he will usually remain calm unless the situation escalates or continues for too long. Try that back home. You tell someone off and they return in kind even if they were in the wrong.

But in terms of violence, taiwan has a higher murder rate than the US.

3

One thing I have noticed re:violence in Taiwan is that when a Taiwanese is moved to violence, the violence is seldom proportionate. What I mean by that is an altercation which may result in a fist fight somewhere else may result in weapons being used here. Minor disputes may result in serious injury or death. I think there are a lot of systemic reasons for this, not the least of which has been ineffective law enforcement.

4

I was going to post almost the same thing. Taiwanese don’t seem to feel very many degrees of emotion. Love is either a crush or “I’ll die if you ever leave me!” Anger is either annoyance or “I’m gonna kill you, MF!”

I’m not sure why this is, but it seem funny to me sometimes. Like, if I ever wanted to say, “Screw you,” to someone, my husband more likely say, “Screw you family for 80 generations!”

5

I agree with TS on this.

Taking traffic altercations as an example, I am surprised how willing people are to pull weapons when arguing their point, or worse.

Not really well considered but just a thought anyway - Is it possible that the level of this violence is a result of all young men having military training?

In answering my own question I guess that they are actually trained in hand to hand contact, not using spanners and wrenches as weapons, so it doesn’t necessarily stand to reason that military training makes them the hotheads that many of them are. But possibly, this training in attacking/protecting oneself, gives them the self-confidence that they need to actually wave such weapons around, even though there is always the chance that the other parties weapon may be bigger than your own!

6

I think military training would have the opposite effect: that is they would be able to think about when such actions are appropriate and remain level-headed in a heated altercation.

Taking traffic as an example though is probably a good example of how strees comes to ahead.
People here drive around for years adn get cut up, turned infront of, rammed off the road and generally ignored by other road users. All with a “piesay” smile on their faces.

Eventually this kind of stress will make some people snap. Happens to me sometimes.

If you put this in a work context then it’s the same. People work and work and work and work here in Taiwan with little time for pleasure. Then when they finish work, some of them come to my English classes (where they get wound up even further).

There is no outlet for their stress like in Western culture. Barely anyone jogs or has any extra work activity to let off the stress.

Then it just takes that small thing to tip the balance and everything comes out. All the pent up anger through years of “piesay.”

Thats what I think anyway.

7

[quote=“Mucha (Muzha) Man”]in Taiwan it is rare for people on the street to give off attitude.

If you get angry at someone, even a young guy, he will usually remain calm unless the situation escalates or continues for too long. Try that back home. You tell someone off and they return in kind even if they were in the wrong.[/quote]

I find it completely opposite here. Scold someone for driving too fast in a narrow alley here and you will never get an acknowledgement of fault. Someone’s unleashed dog here attacks you and or your dog and you scold the owner and they will argue with you here.

8

All of you made some really good and valid points along with some good perspectives.

Mucha Man Wrote:

I think they are rather passive aggressive in their confrontations. Like Tigerman and someone else pointed out, there’s that ‘no responsiblity’ clause in their attitude. So, let’s say in America, btw two young guys, attitude would be up front and in your face but there is some responsiblity for it, ‘ownership’, ie. “Yea, Im talkin to you” etc…

HouseCat wrote:

[quote]
I was going to post almost the same thing. Taiwanese don’t seem to feel very many degrees of emotion. Love is either a crush or “I’ll die if you ever leave me!” Anger is either annoyance or "I’m gonna kill you, MF![/quote]
Yea, I really agree with this one. On my first leg of living in Taiwan,I witnessed a fight on the street, and what struck me was the level of emotion involved. It was like ok to pissed in 60 sec. I think that the Taiwanese are rather emotional people or rather the greater the emotional show the greater the lose of face you can cause.

As for the military, I don’t think it adds to their restraint. Given the political, social beliefs, and traditions all in play in this society. I actually think it works against them…

9

Is this really true? I found one other article online that agreed with this statement, but it had a book from 1989 as it’s source. Is there anything more current about this? (just curious)

10

Is this really true? I found one other article online that agreed with this statement, but it had a book from 1989 as it’s source. Is there anything more current about this? (just curious)[/quote]

Yeah, until I see some evidence to the contrary, I am inclined to think that this is absolutely not the case. It’s about as counter-intuitive as anything I’ve heard in a long while.

11

Found something a little more current with this morning’s searching:

[quote=“answers.google.com”][url=http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=3231]For a more comparative study, here are results as compiled by the Taiwan
government which covers several countries. (data was taken from various
statistical sources for 1998)

Murders per 100,000.

  1. Russia Federation 18.07
  2. United States 6.32
  3. Malaysia 2.73
    Taiwan 1.17
    Spain 1.08
    Japan 0.58[/url][/quote]

I found another that says Taiwan is higher than the US, but decided not to post it (didn’t want to take the time). Why you ask? I think it make A LOT more sense to look at the murder rate of one city compared to another than a whole country compared to another (even if the 2 cities are in the same country).

It’s very inaccurate to look at the murder rate (whatever it really is) of the US compared to my grandma’s town (Osage, Iowa). Plus, I didn’t live “in the US” and I don’t live “in Taiwan”. I lived (more accurately) in Milwaukee (which probably has a fairly high murder rate) and I live in Taibei now. So (for me) I think it makes more sense to compare those two. The US also has a lot of filler (people) to make up for some (I’m assuming) violent places.

12

Something else I just noticed whilst looking at data. Murder rate is only one of many statistics to look at when figuring out… whatever it is we’re trying to figure out about the violence stuff. One would also want to look at all the other violent crime statistics (rape, violent crimes, vilolent theft, child abuse, etc.)

13

The problem with rape and child abuse in Taiwan vs. a place like the U.S. is the rate of reported crimes.

14

[quote=“housecat”]I was going to post almost the same thing. Taiwanese don’t seem to feel very many degrees of emotion. Love is either a crush or “I’ll die if you ever leave me!” Anger is either annoyance or “I’m gonna kill you, MF!”

I’m not sure why this is, but it seem funny to me sometimes. Like, if I ever wanted to say, “Screw you,” to someone, my husband more likely say, “Screw you family for 80 generations!”[/quote]
According to my wife (Taiwanese), the Taiwanese are taught not to display emotions in public. So when it gets to a point that they do show emotion, it’s likely to come bursting out. This is complicated by the issue of “face”.

15

I would think there are more examples of disproportionate violence in the U.S. - where fist fights end with the loser going to find a hand gun and coming back to finish the job, than in Taiwan.

Two incidents in a nation of 23 million…I’d say not very violent at all. How much personal violence have you experienced (or seen)? I have yet to see my first fist fight, shooting, etc. in Taiwan.

If it’s not reported, how do you know that it’s under-reported in Taiwan? Are you assuming that in the U.S. everyone reports it? Why?

16

This is a report on crime in taiwan from 1997:

[quote]Taipei, Nov. 23, 1997 (CNA) Taiwan’s homicide rate is the second highest in the world after only the United States, a recent report indicates.

According to the report by local criminologists, Taiwan’s crime rate is relatively low in other types of crime, although its homicide rate is the world’s second highest, with 6.8 cases per 100,000 population.

Statistics compiled by the Criminal Investigation Bureau show that homicide cases increased from 1,441 in 1994 to 1,743 in 1996, while the latest tallies released by the Ministry of Justice indicate that a total of 579 people (not including those involved in manslaughter cases) were convicted of homicide in the first nine months of this year, up 14 percent from the same period of last year.

Yang Shih-lung, a professor at National Cheng Chung University, said he is planning to launch a study of 1,800 adult and 200 adolescent convicted murderers in a bid to learn more about the factors behind Taiwan’s high homicide rate.

According to Yang, more than half of homicides in the US were committed with guns, while in Taiwan some 52 percent of the total involved the use of knives, followed guns and metal objects at 12 percent and 10 percent, respectively.

Yang warned that the use of firearms to commit homicide in Taiwan is increasing. He indicated that the evening (7:00 p.m. to midnight) and early morning (midnight to 3:00 a.m.) hours are the times when most homicides occur, and that city streets, residential areas and special businesses are the places where homicides happen most frequently.

Citing police criminal records for 1996, Yang said 96 percent of murderers were males and that the 30 to 40 age group is the most predominant category. In terms of profession and academic background, unemployed workers and high school graduates are most likely to commit homicides.

According to Yang, a variety of factors such as biological and psychological influences as well as social and cultural disparities contribute to the propensity to commit murder.

While urging the government to adopt comprehensive measures including increasing police investigative capabilities, improving public security and the protection of children and women, and cracking down on illegal trafficking of weapons, Yang also suggested relevant authorities follow the lead of the United States in setting up a center for the analysis of violent crime to help reduce the occurrence of serious crime.
(By Flor Wang)[/quote]

17

[quote=“620wtmj.com”][url=http://www.620wtmj.com/620programs/charliesykes/weblog.asp?id=8&entry=800]Among the nation

18

I agree with Miltonkid…you are less likely to be the victim of random deadly violence in Taiwan than in the U.S. – I would go a bit further and say lessly likely to be the victim of any violence in Taiwan than in the U.S.
And to say that applies just to sheltered foreigners would be a bit too much as well…I think it applies to the majority of people in Taiwan.

19

Hell, even coming from New Zealand, and not even one of the bigger of the major centers, I feel safer walking around here at night than I ever did back home.

20

I teach at a lower-income public school in the United States. Just last week alone, the school counsilor reported five cases of abuse to CPS (Child Protective Services) which were immediately investigated. During all the years I taught in Taiwan, I know of only one phone call, which was made to the parents of the child in question, regarding physical abuse.

The Taiwanese are just as likey to be violent than any other group of people. Taiwan is not a safe place to live. Some of us assume it is a safe place to live because the violence is rarely if ever reported in the local English newspapers. Some Taiwanese as well as foreign residents pat themselves on the back believing that they live in a safe society as compared to what is experienced in the West. Unfortunately this is far from the truth.