I’d say the number of beggars here is actually astonishing low, compared to just about any major NA city.
Ditto that. The number of homeless on the streets in Taiwan is astonishly low. Taiwanese families take care of their own.
I dont know.But to us Taiwanese it is higher than ever.
i think that in todays major cities in the west, getting strangers to spontaneously step in to do anything is not so easy. We are a very litigious society as a whole and we have been teaching about personal freedoms and what not.
The Taiwanese people dont like to interfere with each other, because Taiwanese HATE to be interfered with ! But if anyone should ask for help. Help will be forthcoming very quickly. If someone is hurt they can call for help and many will step in.
If they dont call for help (sadly if they cant ) then help is a bit slower in coming. But if anyone asks for help, many Taiwanese willl come to their aid.
I witnessed a traffic accident in Taiwan. A rather serious one where a car had gone over the center divider and run on top of a blue truck. The blue truck driver could be heard screaming for help.
And i was amazed at all the instant help that came. The driver of the car that had landed on top of the truck was unhurt and got out of his car. HIs car was then pushed off the truck and some people stopped traffic, while others called 119, and others were pulling the truck driver out of his truck. There was a concerted effort by a lot of people who simply stopped what they were doing and went to work. I myself started directing traffic and helped create a corridor for the ambulance and firetruck to arrive (the possibility of fire was present).
I dont know.But to us Taiwanese it is higher than ever.[/quote]
Taiwanese don’t know how good they have it. They complain all the time about how badly the economy is doing, when compared to most other countries the unemployment rate is quite low and the wealthy/poor gap isn’t as great as it is in America and Europe, and you aren’t hassled for booze money by bums on every other street corner, and you can walk the streets safely without worries about random muggings and other violent crimes. Taiwanese are quite sheltered in many respects. It’s a good thing, it means that Taiwan has a functioning society, better in several ways than societies in the West.
[quote=“Tyc00n”]In Australia we have the best surf lifesavers in the world. They aren’t paid, but they give up their time to ensure the rest of the community is safe. There are also countless organizations that take of people (St. Vinnies, Salvation Army etc), animals (RSPCA) and the environment (Greenpeace etc).
In road side accidents, people stop and help. If I was put in a position where I had to use CPR, I would… and I hope that someone would do the same for me.
Society in general in Australia attempts to take care of those less fortunate. We have a very good security net for people that lose their jobs, single mums etc.
When you see as many beggars on the street in Taiwan as you do, and then you realise that Taiwan has the worlds 3rd largest surplus of $200 billion +, doesn’t it strike you as strange that the living standards for poor people, neglected animals, and the environment are so low?[/quote]
Speaking on behalf of Chinese culture, it’s more family-oriented as everyone here knows. So of course it’s the family that takes care of you not strangers or institutions like in the West. Plus there’s the shame factor. If you ask someone if they need help, you might insult them by implying that they are weak, especially men. I remember hearing a Chinese saying that goes “Don’t do onto other’s as you’d want them not to do onto you.” There’s another analogy about the Chinese woman who ignores her neighbor’s house fire until it reaches her house, only then does she start screaming for help. So true, they err on the side of non-involvement to strangers. But think about it, if you see a drunk guy getting into a car in your country of origin, are you going to help him, attempt taking away the keys, or call the cops?
And please don’t compare to Australians - everyone knows those people are the friggin friendliest people in the whole damned world.
[quote=“Quentin”]
Taiwanese don’t know how good they have it. They complain all the time about how badly the economy is doing, when compared to most other countries the unemployment rate is quite low and the wealthy/poor gap isn’t as great as it is in America and Europe, and you aren’t hassled for booze money by bums on every other street corner, and you can walk the streets safely without worries about random muggings and other violent crimes. …[/quote]
Are you from the San Francisco Bay Area???
Being from Australia, i am astonished to see the amount of “disadvantaged” beggars on the streets of Taiwan - ie, the guys with no legs or demented bodies etc. In Australia, we tend to hide those people away - be it in a Government funded home or some charity institution.
As other people have mentioned, we, australians, also tend to help our neighbours out during times of need, ie a bushfire, a flood etc. Likewise, we also tend to look after strangers on a street or even pregnant ladies in a queue etc.
The reason i bring the pregnant ladies up, i’ve recently been travelling with my rather obvious pregnant wife on the MRT and i was on the brink of anger and torment when people would not even offer her a seat on a crowded train. Even after I loudly pointed out the sign to her about offering such ladies a seat when on the train. People would not get up and give her a seat!!! Instead they would look at us - me being a foreigner holding hands with my pregnant TW wife. In Australia, we would be fighting on giving her a seat. She, being a TW, would say don’t worry about it, TW people only look after themselves and their family first and only give a secondary offering to other people if they feel the need to do so. My wife was only 3 days before her due date and noone was offering her a seat on a crowded train. I was rather angry at that.
I have also been in the States and noticed that in the larger cities, people don;t give a damn about other people. We’ve all read stories about people dying at bus stops or train stations and no one helping them and this does not surprise me. It even happens in Australia as well. But bear in mind, if someone was being attacked by a gang etc or there was an element of risk of helping someone, would you help them? The reason i ask, there is a recent case in country Australia where a gang of aboriginal youths (only two of them) were beating up a white guy in front of a crowd on onlookers and noone came to the white guys rescue. The white guy ended up dying but the onlookers all said that they were scared in approaching the aboriginal youths becuase they may have had weapons. What would’ve you have done in this situation? Try and protect the white guy but then get knifed yourself. It is a hard call these days and many people are scared of the uncertainity.
As for the original topic, in Australia, i may have also bypassed the need in trying to prevent an obvious drunk in getting on his bike - only in the thought that he may want a fight or tell me to get nicked etc. But if it was a bushfire or a flood, then we would all help out. My point being, a single person good samaritan choice may involve danger or hassle, but on a community level, Australians would gladly jump to the need. TW people may not do that to the same extent as we do though.
My thoughts anyway.
g
[quote=“tash”]
I love a lot of aspects of living in Taiwan, but the thing that probably gets to me the most, and gets me down sometimes, is the lack of care for community and strangers. [/quote]
I don’t disagree, but I’m wondering how to balance frequent observations of this lack of concern for those outside one’s immediate circle with the fact that in the aftermath of the 921 earthquake in Taiwan, tens of thousands of people from all over Taiwan either traveled down to Nantou to lend a hand, or sent blankets, supplies, and donations. My brother in law was one of them, said there were too many people who had shown up to help–rescue workers had to send many of them away.
Just yesterday, I observed a little boy around five years old playing on the MRT platform, a few feet away from the departing and arriving trains. I stayed close to him for a minute or two, looking around for a parent. There were a dozen or so people who watched me from their seated or standing positions as I asked him where his mother was. His mother did show up (I’m not sure where she’d gone), and said: “I’m watching him. Thank you for your concern.” I’m pretty sure she was at least freaked out, and possibly pissed off.
[quote=“tommy525”]
The Taiwanese people dont like to interfere with each other, [/quote]
What country are you in?
Ten minute sessions about putting on your coat if the weather is bellow 30. Put on a coat, I don’t want one, put on a coat…
Hour long nag fests about going to the dr for sneezing. Hello, it is just allergies.
Inane questions on the train that end up with poking one for attention if they ignore the asker.
These are from strangers. Let’s not get into how friends are.
Yes, some of that care for strangers is lost in big cities in the West, too (as tommy525 said). But I think speaking in average and overall terms, it’s still there in those countries.
Like SAF said, you’ll find that many Taiwanese will interfere beyond what many of us think is appropriate, and on the other hand, others will not interefere when many of us think is necessary, to save either their or our face.
It’s clearly a difference in culture and conditioning. And I’m perfectly willing to accept it as such. I just choose not to comply with it. (EDIT: Ha, ha! I just realized I contradicted myself by saying this and than the gym story… I should have said something like “although I will sometimes comply with it while living in this society, I choose not to make it a part of me.”)
Tomas, of course, I don’t doubt for a second that Taiwanese rushed to help strangers in a disaster on such massive scale. Even in car accidents or other cases I’ve witnessed here, I’ve seen people help. I’m far from saying they never do.
Accidents are rather extreme examples, though, and I don’t think they clearly show this disparity, because human beings anywhere in the world, of any culture and religion will help another human being in an accident.
I’m talking more about little, every day stuff. Picking up something potentially dangerous off the ground because the next person might get hurt. Telling a woman (discreetly!) that her socking has a run in it, because if it were you, you’d like to know so you can do something about it and not go through your whole day like that. Or a male colleague at work (just before an important meeting) that his zipper is open.
Yesterday, at the gym, it was painful to watch this girl on one of the new machines doing everything wrong and doing it for 15 minutes. The whole time I was thinking to say something to one of the trainers (no way would I tell her myself and embarrass her), I was really struggling with it. It wasn’t anything dangerous, but I’m thinking, she’s going to do it the wrong way every time she goes on that machine, what a waste of time and effort, why not help her learn it the right way. I thought of this thread, I thought of what would that girl want me to do, and I ended up not doing anything.
What does a Taiwanese think in this situation? “It’s not my problem” “She’ll lose face, that’s worse than doing the exercise wrong.”… any other insights?
Again, I’m perfectly aware that those are cultural differences and that if the discussion were reverse and this was a forum for Chinese expats living in Europe a Taiwanese woman might be complaining about how once this terrible Croatian woman came up to her on the metro and told her she had a run in her stocking and how incredibly embarrassing that was for her!
So, I’m not saying either way is better. I just know which way I prefer.
But, having said all that, I’m thinking “who am I to say anything”… In my culture we’ll go out of our way to help a stranger on the street, but the next day we’ll start a war in which friends and neighbors will end up raping and slaughtering each other.
Tash, I don’t know why you didnt say something along the lines of, “Hey if you try it like this, ‘this’ will happen (as in exercising a certain muscle group). If you do it (the way you are doing it now) you’ll hurt yourself.”
I don’t buy that face thing. If someone is so damn insecure…well, you get the picture.
Anyway, was she hot?
[quote=“jdsmith”]Tash, I don’t know why you didnt say something along the lines of, “Hey if you try it like this, ‘this’ will happen (as in exercising a certain muscle group). If you do it (the way you are doing it now) you’ll hurt yourself.”
I don’t buy that face thing. If someone is so damn insecure…well, you get the picture.
Anyway, was she hot?[/quote]
No, she wasn’t. Of course, if she was hot I would definitely have gone up to her and chatted her up for you. This way it just didn’t seem worth the trouble.
Your suggestion up there would be something I’d definitely do in Croatia or Holland. But that’s because I’m sure that in those countries majority of people would choose “learning how to do it properly” over “avoiding 5 minutes of embarrassment”. Here, after many conversations on this subject with my Taiwanese friends I think the opposite is more common.
In any case, if I would do something I wouldn’t go up to her myself. My Chinese is not good enough for that and then I would seem like an arrogant, know-it-better foreigner. Instead, I would suggest to the trainer to do his FAKKIN job and take care of the people in his gym!!! :fume: … but I’d do that nicely, of course. 
What about the way they do it, say something like, “Wow, you really know how to use that excercise machine correctly!”
(like when they tell me, “wow your Chinese is good,” when I screw up a word.)
Tash honey, you can tell me what I’m doing wrong at the gym ANY DAY!!
tash, I agree with you. I didn’t phrase my question very clearly. I’m looking for insight from you and others who think about the issue rationally on exactly why it is that many local people will rush to the aid of others in a national emergency, but ignore individuals who might need a helping hand, or a seat on the MRT, or a “are you okay?” from time to time.
I understand the Taiwanese (and Chinese) cultural proclivity for taking excellent care of the people in one’s immediate circle of relationships while ignoring people whom you don’t know, no matter how needy they may be. Could it be that people simply aren’t attuned to noticing others, unless there’s something like a news report to bring a need to their attention?
I dont know.But to us Taiwanese it is higher than ever.[/quote]
Taiwanese don’t know how good they have it. They complain all the time about how badly the economy is doing, when compared to most other countries the unemployment rate is quite low and the wealthy/poor gap isn’t as great as it is in America and Europe, and you aren’t hassled for booze money by bums on every other street corner, and you can walk the streets safely without worries about random muggings and other violent crimes. Taiwanese are quite sheltered in many respects. It’s a good thing, it means that Taiwan has a functioning society, better in several ways than societies in the West.[/quote]
Amen to that. I would love to start a thread on here just to rant about all the homelessness, beggers, etc that I encounter. In fact, some of them aren’t even into begging but hustling. :fume:
[quote]Yesterday, at the gym, it was painful to watch this girl on one of the new machines doing everything wrong and doing it for 15 minutes. The whole time I was thinking to say something to one of the trainers (no way would I tell her myself and embarrass her), I was really struggling with it. It wasn’t anything dangerous, but I’m thinking, she’s going to do it the wrong way every time she goes on that machine, what a waste of time and effort, why not help her learn it the right way. I thought of this thread, I thought of what would that girl want me to do, and I ended up not doing anything.
What does a Taiwanese think in this situation? “It’s not my problem” “She’ll lose face, that’s worse than doing the exercise wrong.”… any other insights? [/quote]
There’s a big difference between watching someone struggle at the gym and with driving because their drunk. One being that the gym rat is fun to watch, espcially if their dumb. 
I think that is exactly it. It’s not that Taiwanese people are any less decent than Westerners, it’s that they are not conditioned to think about others out in public. The Western sense of courtesy weights that quite heavily, while the Taiwanese system gives it virtually no weight at all.
With Most Taiwanese, if you make them aware of how rude their behavior seems to you, they are genuinely embarrassed about that incident-- even if they don’t change their behavior. Others, however, think that your offence of pointing it out to them, makes you a jerk rather than them.
But in the case of a drunk guy getting on a scooter, well, I think we are entitled to let the guy have our opinion. We don’t have the right to stop him, but we can suggest he not drive in that condition and then call the police if he dismisses our warning. Maybe he was too drunk to realize how stupid it was to drive home drunk. Drinking isn’t that good for your judgement…
Yesterday I ran out of petrol on Keelung rd. I tried to ascertain where the nearest petrol station was and started pushing…and all of 50 m later a girl pulled over on her scooter asked if I was out of gas, I said yes but I was going to go to the station, she said it was really far and offered to go for me, bless. And I gave her 100Nt and a while later she came back with two bottles of petrol and change!!! 
See, occasionaly people might be over-friendly, too curious (
and occasionally rude- like the guy in subway who once jumped the queue, pretended I didn’t exist and upon being forced to acknowledge my existence because the staff tried to give me his card and reciept, I pointed out their mistake, he said thanks, are you a foriegner, I hate all foriegners, you’re all scumbags, big smile, I told him that that was very strange indeed, smiled back and he left the shop
) but then lovely things like this happen. And it’s not the only time that someone has done a petrol run for me (although before you think I’m totally incapable of reading the petrol guage, one other time I wasn’t the driver, the other was sheer not realising becauseI was so excited going to meet my friend from the airport 
).
Taiwan, I’ll take a few weird questions/comments for the flipside of someone helping out when I’m out of petrol and stuff…
Interesting direction this thread has taken… I guess I did the socially acceptable thing among foreigners in Taiwan. Hum…
oh and such a fob, i ain’t no girl
just a flaming homosexual. to some maybe that’s close enough? hahahaha. XD
Disclaimer: If I’m not funny, it’s probably because I bonked my head pretty hard earlier today when out hiking.