Decline and fall of cities

Discussion Open Forum
41

If you guys have got 2,000 and upwards to spend on a bottle of wine, go to Star Wine and Dine, 147 Hangzhou South Road. he’ll divvy up a pretty good steak and he keeps his wines properly. Mostly french, but some new world stuff.

Used to be a lady specialising in fine Aussie wines (for 900, you could get a bottle that p!$$es all over Wolf Blass.) She was on Ren Ai, nr Georg Jensen, then moved. I think she went out of business - probably drank most of the profits herself.

One of the reasons I rate Melbourne so highly is its access to superb wine and great restaurants. There’s a city that turned itself from a gold-ming town (I think) to a service centre. Just by planting a few vines that the french considered “bad quality.” Oooops… sacre bleu, mate… Great city.

42

IBYF:

Yes, I know that store, but it was closed every time I went over there. Cute little old obasan that was really giggly and friendly and very generous about letting you try wines. I don’t think that she was really in it for the money, rich 60s and bored and so it was a “hobby” that she could enjoy with her friends. Maybe her husband finally pulled the plug? or there were too many riffraffs like me going to taste but never to buy? haha

Anyway, was talking with a group this weekend about Liverpool’s efforts and how it won the 2008 European Cultural City thing. Apparently, there is great cause for hope in urban renewal. Glasgow, which is quite nice now, was reportedly the equal or worse of Liverpool, but the efforts made prior to its 1993? 1995? European Cultural City award transformed it into one of the nicest cities of the North. Actually greatly looking forward to seeing a new Liverpool in say five years time. Hope it works out. There is a lot there to work with.

Finally, has anyone been to Istanbul or Athens recently. I understand that both cities (the latter because of the Olympics) are making efforts to clean up, restore, and pedestrianize major downtown areas. Is getting rid of cars one way to ensure a livable space?

I was thinking off Tun Hwa and Chung Hsiao, that it might be a nice idea to close some of the alleys to traffic. It makes it impossible to walk around there with people driving through looking for free ?! parking spots and so they spend 45 minutes to an hour driving and driving and driving and getting more and more impatient and aggressive in their driving. GRRR. Seems that it takes one of the members of the foreign community to push these ideas (sorry if this is inflammatory but quite often the way I feel). It took only 15 years for the sidewalks and tree planting, lights etc. proposal that I saw first in 1987! before the actuality was on the ground and this over great opposition from lawmakers and local residents (the latter more from complete lack of interest) until it was deemed important to the community (government tourism promotion plan) and then the neighborhood residents supported it. It seems to me (and I could be wrong) that in Asia, it requires lobbying the top which “instructs” the bottom how to act. Never any grassroots pushing to the top? Don’t want to oversimplify but in many cases? Anyone have any comments on this?

43

[quote]Also for the Brits, who has been to:

Nottingham
Sheffield
Leeds
Manchester
Liverpool
Glasgow
Belfast
Leicester
Newcastle
Birmingham
[/quote]

Birmingham was bloody awful the day I was there. Seemd like a dreary old country town. I was so shocked to find out it was sposd to be the 2nd or 3rd biggest city in England.

Brian

44

I remember from my days there that the city center had totally been cut apart by highway flyovers. That said, I understand that there is a concerted effort to take advantage of the city’s many canals to make it the yes, “Venice” of England. There are many restaurants, pubs, shopping centers, high-class apartments being built along these former industrial/sewerage/shipping lanes. Now that they are clean, they make a much more livable space. Anyway have any comments on Birmingham’s efforts to transform itself?

45

Giggly because she had probably just opened some of the stock! I know that she moved a while ago and opened a new store somewhere where the rent was cheaper (Hangzhou Rd, I think). When I went around asking and trying to find it, someone told me that there was a lady selling wine, but she closed down after less than a year - just when the recession got bad.

I still hope it wasn’t her and that she’s still going… used to sell me Charles Melton, St Hallets, even GB’s Meshach…

As for Birmingham.

It looks like a half-decent place these days - it used to be completely bloody awful.

I think we will see a similar transformation in Taipei. From “World’s Ugliest City” to “well…, not bad looking if you kinda squint a bit…”

Private money can help. There are some (small) examples - such as the corner of Tunhwa and minsheng, which has basically been taken over by Standard Chartered - they get some advertising space, so long as they keep it looking nice. Didn’t ABN try and do something at Tunhwa/Ren Ai circle? The city government has done its bit with some new tree planting over the years in the parks. It takes time, though.

In Xinyi, district, there is the making of a fairly modern shopping/financial centre. Elsewhere, by the river in the north of the city, there are some open spaces - wassit called Binjiang park or whatever, that could do with some extensive planting etc… the Fine-Arts & Sculpture Museum is a nice start to some kind of culture park.

This is Taipei - its gonna be cramped, but at least the city Government is trying stuff.

Personally, I would favour finding some pedestrianised area which could house cafe’s, top class restaurants, wine bars, etc… something like Shanghai’s Xintiandi.

It might be possible to do this near An Her Road… or then there is near the Chiang Kaishek memorial or perhaps even spruce up the area near Sun Yatsen Park and make it part of the Xinyi development… commercially, that would be the best bet.

Funny- the Taiwanese are pouring money into Shanghai to develop its consumer and leisure industries but not so much into Taipei itself. Is this due to the old problem of taiwan never being considered as a permanent home?

46

Right out the exit of Shilin MRT station (maybe exit 2) there’s a cobblestoned pedestrian space with a bumch of restauirants and shops. It looks really nice. We need more of those. They should pedestrianise more of the night markets.

There’s great riverbank parks all around Taipei. they should clean those up and make them look like the waterfront areas in other cities. Imagine if they were like the Thames in London. And if they actually cleaned up the rivers, they could be really nice. Unfortunately they’re now mostly cut off formt eh rest of the space by freeways and expressways. They need to be linked with other public areas, and accessible.

There’s certainly potential to beautify Taipei.

I’d also like to add that it has to be done without destroying the character. I hate Ma Ying Jiu’s efforts to get rid of the ticket booths, and destroy (rather than renovate) certain nightmarkets. Replacing nightmarkets with malls would be a disaster.

Brian

47

IMBY:

One area that I think might be perfect for the pedestrianized zones that you are talking about is the area north of Chung Hsiao E R. between Tun Hwa and Guang Fu. Ditto for certain streets to the west of Tun Hwa and North of Chung Hsiao.

I have found though that there is very little chance of this occurring from the ground up. Neighbors are suspicious. Why would anyone want to do something good for the community. Must be some plot or something in it for him personally.

Usually, a concerned American or European brings this to the attention of the city government or other agency where he/she is told why it could never work, not feasible, etc. etc. have meetings, stonewalled, etc.

The person in question than takes it to the Euro or American chamber where it becomes a suggestion on quality of life and is then brought up with the mayor who takes the idea and submits it to an official committee.

The committee then hires local professors to offer input (most of whom plagiarized their research papers at institutions abroad as graduate students in the first place to get their degrees) and then plagiarize the original idea as their own, water it down through compromise, resubmit it as a “brilliant idea” and lo and behold action takes place (minimum of five to ten years) but if we start now?

Any comments on my rather cynical view of local redevelopment? Maybe I had better go back to my thread about making the world a better place for a little positive readjustment? :wink:

48

Fredster,

National Geographic’s $100 Taxi Ride series, at 9pm tonight, features Taipei and Liverpool.

Enjoy!

49

[quote=“imyourbiggestfan”]Personally, I would favour finding some pedestrianised area which could house cafe’s, top class restaurants, wine bars, etc… something like Shanghai’s Xintiandi.

It might be possible to do this … near the Chiang Kaishek memorial[/quote]

Now there’s a great idea! But not “near” the CKS memorial… just re-do the CKS memorial and make it an area of cafes, restuarants and pubs with outdoor seating where the square is currently. I avoid that space now like the plague… but I’d certainly go there to drink, eat and socialize.

50

[quote=“tigerman”][quote=“imyourbiggestfan”]Personally, I would favour finding some pedestrianised area which could house cafe’s, top class restaurants, wine bars, etc… something like Shanghai’s Xintiandi.

It might be possible to do this … near the Chiang Kaishek memorial[/quote]

Now there’s a great idea! But not “near” the CKS memorial… just re-do the CKS memorial and make it an area of cafes, restuarants and pubs with outdoor seating where the square is currently. I avoid that space now like the plague… but I’d certainly go there to drink, eat and socialize.[/quote]

Tigerman, a wonderful idea, but just as everywhere one goes in Taiwan, the pig’s blood on a stcik sellers will be belting out DI HOY GOY every minute not long after it becmoes popular.

Not only will people say “cha bu dwo,” they will actually enjoy the readily available congealed blood.

Taiwan is not a cafe culture, at least not an outdoor one. Although, there a few nice ones next to the river in Danshui.

51

Actually as I note the fact that the weather this year has been very nice in Taipei. Cool Breezy and the trees and bushes seem to have leafed our much fuller than ever before, perhaps fewer cars/motorcycles, old buses, industrial air conditioners with motors the size of buses are actually contributing to a more pleasant outdoor climate. Would then cafe culture spring in Taipei’s fetid soil? Just a thought but I have seen a number of cafes with outdoor seating now. That would have been impossible mere years ago because of the air pollution and lack of oxygen in the air.

Alley Cat:

You are totally joking about the Liverpool Taipei $100 taxi ride being on TV tonight on National Geographic. That would be just like to awesome. I mean the coincidence and all. Are you sure it is not Blue Beach or Blue Hawaii or Blue whatever Tigerman posted as a beach movie suggestion?

52

Fred,

No I am not joking. Check the TV times in your TT or on the Web.

53

Alley Cat:

Well f— me dead if you are not absolutely right. I just checked. How much of a coincidence is this! Now I need to find a TV since do not laugh I do not have cable tv or a mobile phone or an answering machine (hooked up) or a DVD player or a computer or …

I am a Luddite what can I say?

54

Spot on freddy-boy. I think it would’t affect traffic too much, either.

I like Mr T’s idea of putting the cafe scene inside CKS. the only problem is it may offend some people.

If so, I would urge them to take a look at Xintiandi, in Shanghai. If you go there, it is full of cafes, bars, luxury restaurants, even Starbucks and McDonalds. What makes this surprising is that nestled in the middle is… the site of the First Congress of the Chinese Communist Party.

Now, why not take a leaf out of SHanghai’s book… ???

55

Yongkang St. is already largely pedestrian, at least in the evenings. Taipei should begin by closing it to all motorized transport from about 5 p.m. until midnight. Perhaps then move on to a total ban on motorized transport there, except for delivery vehicles during certain hours.

It wouldn’t be hard to do (assuming a will for enforcement – I know, I know) and would bring an immediate and noticeable improvement to the area.

56

But Yong Kang Jie is not really pedestiranised. Scooters and cars can still drive through. You just mean there’s more pedestrians than cars right? The only place in Taipei I can think of that is really pedistrianised is a bit of the night market in Gong Guan. The reason it wokrs is because they’ve put a chain across so you can’t drive your scooter in. That would be the way to do it really. Poeple who needed to drive into the pedestian area would have stickers on their vehicles, and would have ot get off and undo the chain. Taht would probably be all the enforcement you needed. Then you could pedestrianise the area someone mentioned with allt he restaiurants around Dunhua/Zhongxiao, the nightmarkets and maybe an area around the train station/SOGO. There’s probably other good candidates.

Brian

57

About St. Louis

I have to say the city gets better and better everytime I go there. They have the Metrolink(St Louis version of the MRT without blatant corruption) that combines/binds the St Louis metro area together(meaning Missouri and Illinois sides of the area). They’ve torn down the projects and have started building suburbs in their place. This has helped lower the crime rate and make the city a safer and nicer place. There are also a lot of parks, colleges, universities, green areas, and shopping centers. Manufacturing still has a place in the city and with its central location along major highway routes a lot of Fortune 500 companies have their headquarters(26 was the last figure that I saw) there. Services, particularly financial, are key to the city. I’m not sure about automotive manufacturing though, it use to be the 3rd largest manufacturer of car and car parts about 3-5 years ago. Boeing still has a factory in the there. It’s a very green city with quite a few tree lined streets. The surrounding area ia largely semi-rural and agricultural. It has a lot of ethnic communities.

There was a time when manufacturing was vacating the city, but services and certain other industries took up the slack. I know the current economic downturn has caught 2 of my friends and they are currently unemployed, but positive about there prospects for employment. One’s a skilled arc welder and the other knows about all things computer related. It is a real hassle to get from point to point with it being so spread out. Not nice and compact like Taiwan, but at least it has a working yellow pages.

Okami

58

Well must say that certainly was a taxi ride around town. Liverpool looked better than I had expected.

What a cheeseball for the guide in Taipei though. Pulling all those stunts, imitating the dancers, harassing the guards at the Martyr’s Shrine, chowing down in Snake Alley. I guess that is fairly typical of that Har Har Cabbie humor. “There’s Hair in my Soup?!” “Liv Tyler welcome to Sydney” school of mindless har har har har har dee har har.

Obviously not too impressed. I was actually embarrassed for Taiwan. If someone overseas was to watch the National Geographic abroad, I doubt that they would have a good impression based on that ahole’s antics.

Anyone else see it?

Also, you try JUST TRY to get someone to chain off access to a neighborhood in Taiwan despite the improvements it would bring. People will get upset about their RIGHTS (remember little Nursie stamping her foot and screaming at Hoping Hospital) "Why do I have to respect a quarantine?! to “Where’s my payoff?!” Civic mindedness when it comes to these things is often in short supply. Perhaps it was too in the cities that have managed to transform themselves elsewhere. Perhaps that might be something to look at, chaning the mindset here first and then trying to redo the neighborhoods? How can this be done? Any specific suggestions.

To wit, how would one change the mindset and bring about a pedestrianized neighborhood at Zhong Xiao and Dun Hua (see editors I picked that up)

59

Pedestrianized zones?? wahhahahahaha

I’ve seen scooter scum ride up into the new Shihlin market.

60

Sorry forgot to thank Okami for an excellent post on St. Louis. Just the kind of stuff that I wanted to know.

Thanks!