Out of curiosity, a question for the Taiwanese using this website: In Taiwanese Labor law is there anything covering discussing salaries with co-workers?
In many countries, labor laws explicitly say that companies can’t forbid employees to discuss salaries between themselves.
Still, in my company’s training videos and seminars they tell about all the bad things that can happen if you discuss salary and bonus colleagues…
(even though in the contract there’s no explicit mention to that, except for confidentiality of the contents of the contract)
Strictly forbidden in my company, but I’m not sure there’s anything in Labor Law about it. That said, I believe it may say something about it in my contract.
I think I was told not to discuss salaries both here and back in the US. Though my co-workers hold as much regard for that warning as they do traffic lights.
Well, I always considered discussing salaries outright as unpolite, unless there is a real motive to discuss that (you suspect your company is cheating you, or considering a change of company, and you want to know other opinions about YOUR salary).
When I was still dating my wife and she introduced me to her friends, back in Barcelona, the usual conversation was:
Hi
Hi
I’m [my_name]
Oh, nice to meet you. I’m [name]. What’s your job?
Well I work as a [occupation].
And how much do you make?
…
Other conversation templates, this time with my wife:
Hey, do you remember my [friend, relative]?
Not really. Was he the one with two kids?
No, no. The one working at [insert company name]
Oh, that one. By the way, how much do they pay him at [company name]?
I don’t know, I never asked.
You don’t know what your [friend, relative] earns? How’s that possible?
It’s unpolite to ask about that.
No, it’s really common! You should know that about all your relatives!
My wife complained that, in a car driven by her friend and with a bunch of people she didn’t know, she was loudly asked “how much does your husband make?”
It’s socially acceptable here, but people at my workplace are decent human beings and realize that openly discussing salary only leads to hurt feelings. I’ve been here a year and don’t know how much anybody makes (myself, of course, excluded).
This might be culture shock, but I think talking about salaries among colleagues is perfectly normal.
Also, when “you know where you stand”, you have the high ground when asking for rises, doing career moves, etc.
I think when employees are secret about their salaries, it only benefits the employer really.
(otherwise why would they be so protective about it huh)
Conspiracy Theory:
This whole irrational “Salary Taboo” was seeded in our society by employers themselves.
In one of my company’s training videos, there was an animated cartoon about “Mr. C”, who talked about his year bonus with his colleges. Then, some of those colleges were jealous about it and it hurt their performance, and then that affected the department’s overall performance, and then in the next year everyone’s bonus was crap. Moral lesson: boast about your good bonus, and next year you will get crap.
Also, some months ago there was a big scene about an employee who complained about his salary to his manager. It seems he told the manager that some other less qualified and less productive colleagues were earning much more than him and that his salary needed adjustment (worst way ever to ask for a rise, by the way). The interesting thing is that afterwards there was a witch-hunt to find out who told him those numbers. There was also a recommendation by top management telling everyone not to disclose their salaries to anyone.
Companies exploit the asymmetry of information. This is what is happening here, couched in some fake productivity talk.
In fact Taiwan businesses as a while exploited this compared to Korea for years. Only until very recently did the average Taiwanese realize Koreans can make up to 3x Taiwanese salary on average.
It’s not a good idea to discuss your salary in a competitive workplace or if you make significantly more than some other employees, especially if you are a foreigner or ‘outsider’ of some sort. This could cause massive resentment to be borne towards you, if you are not careful.
I think it’s hard to nail a “average” salary for foreigner.
Depends on the job, company, work experience, university, country you come from, color of your eyes and hair, etc.
For R&D job, average starting salary for foreigner is 55k (same for Taiwanese graduated from 台清交). 14 salaries per year, 3~4 salaries for 1st year bonus.
(by the way, if you’re a foreigner looking for a job in Taiwan, please do everybody a favor and don’t take anything below 50k. It’s seems some recent changes in the labor laws are allowing companies to hire foreigner for cheap, so let’s not lower the bar, ok?)
For 1+ year it really depends. I know foreigners getting 80k+ in second year. For me, 2nd year salary only increased a little, but got 9 salaries year bonus last CNY.
Great way how to figure out wages in your company is to ask ex-colleagues once they leave the company. At that point they are more open to share this sensitive information with you (or at least suggest ranges to have some idea).
[quote=“mrho”]I think it’s hard to nail a “average” salary for foreigner.
Depends on the job, company, work experience, university, country you come from, color of your eyes and hair, etc.
For R&D job, average starting salary for foreigner is 55k (same for Taiwanese graduated from 台清交). 14 salaries per year, 3~4 salaries for 1st year bonus.
(by the way, if you’re a foreigner looking for a job in Taiwan, please do everybody a favor and don’t take anything below 50k. It’s seems some recent changes in the labor laws are allowing companies to hire foreigner for cheap, so let’s not lower the bar, ok?)
For 1+ year it really depends. I know foreigners getting 80k+ in second year. For me, 2nd year salary only increased a little, but got 9 salaries year bonus last CNY.[/quote]
To clarify, when suggesting 80.000 TWD, you are talking about tech industry and companies like 鴻海(Foxconn) with high Chinese New Year bonuses but including “perks” such as working till 11pm every day?
I guess you are referring to lower limit 36.000 TWD/month for those who graduated from college in Taiwan. Think about it, would those kids (with just college degree, not likely work experience) get paid 50.000+ first year?
If TW college graduates are getting paid 36,000NTD a month, they are pretty baller.[/quote]
If they think that’s baller then they should consider working overseas for a couple of years while they can get the under 30 working holiday visas most country’s offer
Foxconn, TSMC, MTK, MStar…
Still, everyone knows it’s not only the 80K+ jobs that include those “perks”.
Seriously, 36k for a college graduate is a joke and bad for the job market. Taiwanese people don’t have a choice sadly, but for foreigners I think it’s better to just leave (Taiwan is addicting, but sometimes people just have to let it go).
I leave the office every day at 6:30. as per my contract.
I think I’ve worked overtime twice in the ten years that I’ve been here. Of course I’m usually the first to leave, but I put my foot down at the very beginning and no-one’s ever had a problem with it. I arrive on time, I’m almost never off sick (maybe two or three times since I started here) and I finish any work that needs doing on time.
[quote=“irishstu”]I leave the office every day at 6:30. as per my contract.
I think I’ve worked overtime twice in the ten years that I’ve been here. Of course I’m usually the first to leave, but I put my foot down at the very beginning and no-one’s ever had a problem with it. I arrive on time, I’m almost never off sick (maybe two or three times since I started here) and I finish any work that needs doing on time.[/quote]
Let me be the first to tell you, this is no surprise.
