Discussion about COVID restrictions and lockdowns in Taiwan

Beauty parlors include tourist parlors audio-video parlor.

Even thought we still don’t know what that is…

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I think the giveaway is that next to that it mentions that “establishments without hostess services may open provided that they must follow epidemic prevention and management regulations”. As I think Finley mentioned, a barber shop is a well known euphemism for places that offer more services than wash, cut and blowdry.

Then it starts to make sense why there might be places only for tourists (including visiting Japanese businessmen or not, I have no idea) and audio visual meaning that they also offer, well it could be anything. Ktv? Movies? Special movies or shows? (Despite having lived inside a building with three jiudians, I have almost no knowledge)

Given that the tea parlors in Wanhua were the weakest link for one outbreak, the combination of, what did they say, “services that require the removal of masks”? and girls smuggled into the country (interesting to see in Seqalu that this has quite a history) has led them to say that they’re keeping that under wraps until the post covid party.

Of course I may be putting 2 and 2 together and making 5.

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Are the saunas open though? Might actually go to the gym :joy:

So it looks like masks are needed in Taoyuan when cycling, running, hiking outdoors. This is coming soon to a neighborhood near you, I’m sure.

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Probably not. We’re not seeing community spread right now.

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It was announced yesterday for Taoyuan .
Pain in the arse due to small cluster ,airport ?
Meanwhile eating in restaurant…No problem. :joy::grin:
Review in a week or two again.

I did a health check recently. I realise some businesses and people better prepare for when omicron breaks out here , there’s probably going to be a period where they’ll have to shut down according to the way the government operates.
Even if not shut down a lot of customers and companies won’t book those kind of optional services during the peak outbreak. I felt some sympathy for them knowing what coming down the line, sooner than later.

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I wonder. What countries have shut down with this, in fact?

I went swimming this evening. And I’ll go again this weekend. I have a bad feeling about this. Not fear of the virus but the reaction here to local cases. The pools were some of the first things to go last time around.

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I went to the gym this evening for the first time in ages (since the requirement to wear masks during exercise was removed). It was great - virtually nobody there. I’m pretty certain it’s only a matter of days before Dr “I smoke and have never exercised in my life” Chen decides the mask mandates are in full force again, so I’m making the most of it while it lasts.

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Oh no! I hadn’t thought of that! I was hoping to finally get back in the water this weekend after a knee injury. Crap crap crap. I’d only been back in the water a few weeks when I took the knee out! And now, yeah, I fear I may only get a few days back in the water again.

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So exercising without a mask, if you can keep a distance, is still allowed?

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It sounds like this is the case. But you need to carry one with you in case the need to wear it arises.

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I think that has changed now. From what someone posted in another thread, it seems you have to wear one to exercise now.

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Should this be a separate topic - let’s list the errors Taiwan is making in regards to scientific mainstream in containing SARS-Cov2 - I try to list them by importance always linked to sources:

Sars-COV2 spreads airborne - yet Taiwan treats it like it would also spread via contaminated surfaces, spraying bleach, keeping rooms empty for several days in quarantine hotels - and many more mistakes that are done because Taiwan has it’s special own understanding: DEFINE_ME
even more - after 5 minutes 90% of infectivity is lost: Covid 90% Less Infectious Five Minutes After Being Airborne, Study Suggests

Surgical masks do not provide a lot of protection - in critical settings meaning everywhere indoor where transmission is likely (airports, quarantine taxis, …) Taiwan should require FFP2 or N95 masks (FFP2 are very close to N95) and make sure people wear it correctly: https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/1478867026542219264/photo/1

A large majority of coronavirus infections happens indoors - likely still over 90% (maybe a tiny bit lower for omicron, but still substantial:

As long as people are still allowed to eat in restaurants or be at any other indoor places together not wearing mask, or only wearing surgical masks, it does not make sense to require masks outdoors (simple probability). Outdoors masks make sense in large crowds - however again likely it should be FFP2 plus being worn correctly which will not happen…

Assuming Lockdowns and measures do not lose effectiveness:
It’s been proven over and over again - you cannot lockdown forever - not only because of economic reasons - but also because people get tired from measures and will not stick to them anymore

What clear other errors is Taiwan making by acting in panic mode instead of considering scientific mainstream belief.

Taiwan being correct in looking back but going against mainstream (scientific) opinion
Taiwan locked down very early, used masks very early when other countries did not and went against the mainstream. a) Kudos to discovering it in Wuhan end December 2019. That was well done b) masks early on - actually most scientists believed in masks right from the start - however most countries had no supplies. So in order to stop people from buying up all masks the countries denied this - in order for hospitals not to run. out. Still an error to lie to the people up front. Plus this was opinion back then not backed by studies in any direction.

Other clear errors - besides not admitting to ever do errors. Haven’t seen that but most politicians worldwide and governments are bad at it. Taiwan is no exception.



Omicron is just like the flu - Taiwan is going overboard - let’s not have this discussion in this list of scientific errors. It’s a dead horse. This list is only about clear errors that Taiwan CDC is doing in their tactics. Let’s not forget - people get lockdown and measure tired:

Everyone will get omicron anyhow - Taiwan should realize and adapt. Well some people here still thing differently. - not for this list because it will get too long. Many experts been saying this since last year end November - today even Fauci: Omicron variant will 'find just about everybody,' Fauci says, but vaccinated people will still fare better - CNN

Any discussion about effectiveness of vaccines There are different opinions (e.g. WHO advising for first the full world getting vaccinated before boosters are shelved out - while the whole western world goes for boosters before handing vaccines to the 3rd world) and so on. For omicron at least vaccines cannot do anything substantial to stop the spread (about how much harm they cause vs how much the help in preventing from getting sick is again not part of list in mistakes to prevent spread)

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Thanks for compiling all this information.

I would add to this something that almost nobody mentions: even if you could theoretically “slow the spread” by some modest factor, with masks, vaccines, lockdowns or whatever, it doesn’t matter in the slightest. The rate at which something happens has no ultimate bearing on the endpoint. Those who are vulnerable will remain vulnerable whatever the R value is, and if they’re likely to die, then they’ll die.

This was acknowledged way back when people were talking of “flattening the curve” - the (theoretical) aim was to get the health service prepared - but for some reason this morphed into a completely false assumption that if you slowed it down enough, you could make it go away.

“A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines.”

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I think so too - as long as you cannot get R below 1 and return to zero Covid - all the above errors will only slow down/speed up transmission but not prevent it.
And I’m sure with omicron it’s too late now. However I’m pretty sure - had Taiwan handled this correctly they could have survived many more months before it actually starts spreading.

(meaning other obvious errors like taxis without separation, and ventilation in quarantine hotels - especially bathroom ventilation which is the most likely reason for spread from room to room - as bathroom ventilation has no filters - plus it open all the time - so with people having windows locked up - using internal aircon - they will have had quite substantial sharing of air with neighbouring rooms. In some unlucky cases enough to spread on).

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I think the average Joe on the street knows about this at this stage notwithstanding the ridiculous media here. Now remember Omicron has only been confirmed as a mild variant relatively recently and that’s a key factor obviously.

The problem is…Who are the government officials who are going to stand up like Singapore and say…Yeah we are going to have to live with it and here it comes now…?

Not Tsai yet anyway !

What they need is a community surge of Omicron to say 'look it’s already out there ’ but I think the vast majority of us DO NOT want that to happen before CNY. Let us enjoy some freedom before batshit crazy media and local officials freak.

PS The silver lining in this is that we are not in China . That’s just horrible.

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