Disgruntled Americans Emigrating to Canada?

Politics International Politics
41

I’m wondering, is this an important issue to MaPo and Stalin (2 Americans) because Canadians harp on how “ours is the best medical system in the world?”

Otherwise, I can’t figure out why it would matter to either of you.

Well, having spoken to Canadians back home living in Alberta and Ontario (2 of the richest provinces) and Quebec and Nova Scotia, everyone agreed that our Medicare is not what it used to be and was even collapsing in some areas.

God, I’m tired of reading all of this Canada bragging. Equally awful are caustic, abrasive American charicatures.

42

Going back to the original post, I highly doubt that US citizens are flocking to immigrate to Canada especially since it takes about 2 years minimum to even have your application looked at. Then, if approved, one has to live in Canada for 3 years before one can take the citizenship test. By then, another president will be installed.
Plus, having worked in a Canadian immigration office in the US for several years, I can tell you that every 4 years the office will get inquiries about immigration procedure. Then as soon as they hear the hassles, the fees and the backlog time…they rant a little more and move on. It happened when Bush won the first time and it happened even when Clinton got elected. Inquiring about immigrating to another country and actually doing it are 2 different things especially once they realize it isn’t like walking into McDonald’s and buying a happy meal.

BTW, here’s a link about an article stating that Americans are flocking to the Canadian immigration website NOT Americans flocking to Canada.

story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s … ada_usa_dc

43

Bullshit right back at you. How does a poor guy with a wife and kids to support have access to expensive medical tests? How many of the working poor put off going to the doctor because they simply cannot afford it? How many of the poor end up incapacitated by curable ailments because the expense was prohibitive enough to prevent them from seeking out medical attention in the early stages of their illnesses?

How many kids in the U.S. living in poverty are sick because their parents can’t afford health care?

44

The bravery many of them displayed in refusing to participate in a stupid, pointless, immoral war was indicative of the type of integrity they had. Canada has been enriched by their presence.

45

There are at least a few members of my church that came over as conscientious objectors. They are great guys, good husbands and fathers, and upstanding members of the community. They loved America, still do, I think, but did not want to be put in a position where they would unwillingly become part of the military. It wasn’t an easy decision for them.

46

[quote=“Toe Save”]A kid was confused about the morality and christianity-soaked Republican party. He was wondering if Jesus would be in favour of the death penalty?
[/quote]

well, jesus certainly isn’t in favor of abortion, but not sure how many minds that changes on the left. i have all the respect in the world for people who are pro-life and anti-death-penalty. rabid pro-choicers who are against the death penalty(like most of secular europe) just come across as hypocrites. oh, don’t kill that mass murderer, but your 8 month old fetus isn’t REALLY alive. even pro-life/pro-death penalty has a certain logic to it.

you could not be more wrong.

covered this in a serperate thread, but i’ll go over it again just to show you how wrong you are.

more americans support abortion rights than at any time in us history. fewer americans support overturning roe v. wade than at any time in us history. only 16% of americans believe abortion should always be illegal.

in every single city and town in the us, there is more acceptance of homosexuals than at any time in us history. it was only a year or two ago that sodomy laws were being overturned and today we have the most culturally conservative president in modern memory coming out in favor of civil unions. civil unions! did clinton ever come out for civil unions?

if you think that this is the dark ages, you have absolutely no idea of what america was like and has always been like. big city, liberal bubble, rude awakening. i guess in your case it’s live in another country, only see the warped america that hollywood shoves at you, rude awakening when you find out most of america has always been pretty conservative.

the number of americans who will actually run away to canada will be a small fraction of the number who ran up there in the 60’s and 70’s. underground railroad? :unamused:

[quote]I, for one, am saddened to see this. Who knows what damage GWB and Co. will inflict on free thinking people in the next four years, but if I was living in America after 11/3/04, I’d be packed and gone before the last ballot got counted.
[/quote]

guess you got a head start. good for you! now you never have to be bothered with being exposed to an opinion different from your own. having lived in san francisco and gone to college in the northeast, i know how liberals hate having to listen to opinions different from their own. but now you’ll pretty much just run into disgruntled americans and haughty europeans and you can all commiserate in your bush-hate together. :slight_smile:

he won by over 3 million votes, had a couple states to spare, and the dems got routed in house and senate races. exactly how was this close?

[quote]
That there are that many supporters of such an evil little imp as GWB, so many that could be my neighbours, damn skippy I’d zip up my parka and buy a toque.[/quote]

some conservatives might suggest that running away is a liberal specialty. :wink:

47

[quote=“rooftop”]I’m wondering, is this an important issue to MaPo and Stalin (2 Americans) because Canadians harp on how “ours is the best medical system in the world?”

Otherwise, I can’t figure out why it would matter to either of you.[/quote]
Er, it doesn’t matter at all to me. You folks can do whatever damage you want to your economy, government, and healthcare system, as long as you don’t ask the U.S. to bail you out when you collapse.

I don’t care about the Mexican healthcare system either, or the one in England, or the one in France, except inasmuch as some smug people start ranting about how the U.S. system “neglects” some people – it doesn’t, and the hospitals even bring difficult cases in from abroad just to treat them, like the half-dozen or so cases of conjoined twins who have been splashed all over the headlines, or the Iraqi amputees who were mutilated by Saddam whom the press ignored because it would have shown American humanitarian aid at its finest. Hell, Orbis has its own DC-10 that they fly around to treat people (and teach physicians) in third-world countries – all funded by private donations, both cash and in-kind (such as the opthalmologists who use their vacation time to fly out and treat people). (Not to disparage the people of other nations who have also contributed time and money – Orbis has offices in Canada and Hong Kong, among others. But it was started in the U.S., and United sold them their plane at scrap costs, and FedEx helps on maintenance and inspections. Not Air Canada or Cathay or Bombardier.)

I was hearing that five years ago from some of the Canadians I worked with.

And Porc – how about the Canadians who die waiting for an MRI because the government-controlled deathcare system limits the payments? In the late 1990s, when MRIs were pretty much instantly available in the U.S. – you need one you got one – Canadian MDs were running dogs and cats through their machines, because they could get real money for veterinary care, while the government was refusing to pay beyond a capped limit for human care.

48

[quote=“Yi”]Going back to the original post, I highly doubt that US citizens are flocking to immigrate to Canada especially since it takes about 2 years minimum to even have your application looked at. Then, if approved, one has to live in Canada for 3 years before one can take the citizenship test. By then, another president will be installed.
Plus, having worked in a Canadian immigration office in the US for several years, I can tell you that every 4 years the office will get inquiries about immigration procedure. Then as soon as they hear the hassles, the fees and the backlog time…they rant a little more and move on. It happened when Bush won the first time and it happened even when Clinton got elected. Inquiring about immigrating to another country and actually doing it are 2 different things especially once they realize it isn’t like walking into McDonald’s and buying a happy meal.
[/quote]

Well, it is if they utter the magic word. refugee

49

[quote=“MaPoSquid”] You folks can do whatever damage you want to your economy, government, and healthcare system, as long as you don’t ask the U.S. to bail you out when you collapse.
[/quote]

To this, I have to add that is your country that is buying up medications from mine, and not the other way around.

As much as I don’t like smug, empty bragging by Canadians, your angry American bully routine wears thin as well.

50

[quote]
And Porc – how about the Canadians who die waiting for an MRI because the government-controlled deathcare system limits the payments?[/quote]
Child mortality rates are higher in the U.S. than in Canada. Lifespans are longer in Canada. Many factors are involved, naturally, but the fact that some 40 million Americans do not have access to health care is a major reason.

51

[quote=“porcelainprincess”]
The bravery many of them displayed in refusing to participate in a stupid, pointless, immoral war was indicative of the type of integrity they had. Canada has been enriched by their presence.[/quote]

refusing to fight and then running away so you can’t be caught might be principled, but it doesn’t really seen all that brave to me.

52

and to this i say that it is our country that is subsidizing the price of your drugs.

you slap price controls on the drug companies and american consumers end up paying your bill.

53

[quote=“Flipper”][quote=“rooftop”]
To this, I have to add that is your country that is buying up medications from mine, and not the other way around.
[/quote]

and to this I say that it is our country that is subsidizing the price of your drugs.

you slap price controls on the drug companies and American consumers end up paying your bill.[/quote]

If we do away with price controls, to follow your system, that only allows drug prices to rise uncontrollably.

Why should our government leave Canadians unable to afford prescription drugs? That may be common in the USA but it isn’t desirable.
The pharmaceutical industry is angry because they are unable to ask for increasingly higher amounts and, in the end, look bad for being so greedy.

It isn’t the fault of Canadians that US consumers pay more. It’s the fault of the unlimited greed of drug companies that your government is only to happy to jump into bed with – at the cost of your citizen’s health.

54

[quote=“rooftop”]
If we do away with price controls, to follow your system, that only allows drug prices to rise uncontrollably.

Why should our government leave Canadians unable to afford prescription drugs? That may be common in the USA but it isn’t desirable.
The pharmaceutical industry is angry because they are unable to ask for increasingly higher amounts and, in the end, look bad for being so greedy.

It isn’t the fault of Canadians that US consumers pay more. It’s the fault of the unlimited greed of drug companies that your government is only to happy to jump into bed with – at the cost of your citizen’s health.[/quote]

my own preference is for the us to force drug companies to charge the same prices in the us as are charged in canada if the drug is sold in both countries. better to pull some drugs from canada altogether than to have us residents subsidize government price controls in canada.

55

Flipper: Agreed.

Then, we might just go and pull a Brazil on you. :wink:

oxfam.org.uk/what_we_do/issu … brazil.htm

slashdot.org/articles/01/08/23/1328224.shtml

fpif.org/briefs/vol6/v6n13meds_body.html

56

[quote=“rooftop”]Flipper: Agreed.

Then, we might just go and pull a Brazil on you. :wink:

oxfam.org.uk/what_we_do/issu … brazil.htm

slashdot.org/articles/01/08/23/1328224.shtml

fpif.org/briefs/vol6/v6n13meds_body.html[/quote]
That works right up until all the drug companies go out of business because they can’t make any more money – as is already happening in the vaccine industry.

But good little socialists like those of you up north, and of course Lula’s government way down south, don’t understand basic economics, or just don’t care.

57

That’s pretty condescending. :eh:

58

MaPoSquid

Is it basic economics or being greedy?
Flipper

Are you sure? Personally I prefer not to speak for someone else, especially a religious icon. I don’t remember seeing it mentioned in my red-lettered edition of the bible. Murder you say, but at what point does a fetus become a person who can be murdered? I guess we’ll just have to save this question for his return.

59

I’m not against abortion and I’m not against the death penalty. That makes me logically consistent, but what’s that saying from Emerson…something about a foolish consistency being the hobgoblin of little minds, yes?

This entire thread is based on one underlying premise, that both Americans and Canadians seem to unconsciously accept: Canada as the UnCola. That is, Canada is as it always has been - defined not by what it is, but by what it is not; Canada’s national identity revolves around how it is different from the U.S.A. This is a deeply unhealthy basis for national pride, this defining yourself by rivalry, by how well you compare to your closest neighbor. Canadians seem totally obsessed with America in the same way that Koreans seem totally obsessed with Japan or the Irish with England.

The disgruntled would-be-emigrant Americans in question typify the flip side of the coin: like most Americans, they know little (very little) about Canada and just assume that it’s just like the U.S.A. except colder. It’s a deeply condescending attitude that these good little blue state liberals don’t seem to realize (which is a typical Northern liberal trait - they don’t even realize when they’re being condescending, and they often are). I mean, there are plenty of other countries to emigrate to, many of which are as much if not more attractive than Canada as places to reside - why this American fixation on Canada as “the convenient place to run to when things get heavy,” (well, there’s Mexico, too, but that’s for outlaws and drug dealers and washed-up old drunken former B-movie stars, in the American Mythic Imagination).

60

i would like to move there but it’s too far away.