Yes, I was thinking more along the lines of restaurants I’ve visited in other countries where the bill is easier to accept when it is for an import.
Obviously you are talking about the other guy, right? 
Obviously you are talking about the other guy, right? [/quote]
Probably only bedraggled after the consultation…
Dang! Sorry I missed that.
To stay on topic and for the record, I have absolutely no objection to a minimum charge or other reasonable efforts made by proprietors to deal with “riff-raff” and or free-loaders and to ensure a quality experience and safe environment for those who do choose to patronize the establishment.
Dang! Sorry I missed that.[/quote]
It was a dandy. 
[quote=“fryingscotsman”]
I note that you are a teacher, one assumes that the pupils at your school pay for the privilige, are you saying it is okay for ‘customers’ to come in and sit down in your class and watch your blackboard at no charge? or pay for one lesson and attend 3? One wonders how you would be paid if this was the case. Does your school not a price on the customers heads? and expect all to pay a minimum when they attend your establishment?[/quote]
No, I am not a teacher and have not been for a long, long time. One of my many jobs now is to help an esl school in Vancouver get students. Another of my jobs is travel writer, and so I have a professional interest to understand what you guys are doing.
But I still think your school analogy is flawed. If you would like me to answer you clearly why then please answer me why you think it is acceptable to go to a bookstore and just browse or a Starbucks and order one coffee and sit there all afternoon?
Anyway, I realize I have come down on you all too hard. Had a bad car accident last week and still a little edgy and probably looking for a fight. I appreciate all the answers and I realize that yes, I too, like the cover charge if it means I don’t have to hang around cheap loud 20 somethings. I’m not a big pub goer but I regularly visit the teahouses up in Maokong where I accept paying a minimum charge on weekends. If I am fine with it here, I should be fine with it elsewhere.
Never really occured to me that a pub would charge prices to keep the clientelle at a certain level. But it makes sense especially in a city like Taipei. Still think though that on a public forum, especially one where the majority of members are english teachers (code-worded riff-raff) you should be a little more careful how you speak. People don’t stay in their backpacking 20s forever.
NT$2,000 EACH for a night at the Brass Monkey! :loco: I like the place alright as they have a nice enough pool table and I can usually dominate the thing much of the night (unless roach is there) but I wouldn’t spend NT$2,000 there if my throat was on fire.
Carnegies of course is a much finer establishment and as such my expenditures there have been known on occasion to reach nearly, oh, NT6-700. Gotta love those Ativan/ HH special combos. That bigger of the two Bobs is a good guy too.
Just having a look back I am not so sure if any of us had drawn a parallel between bookstore browsing and cover charges in bars. However, if I were managing a bookstore I would certainly wish that some browsing would lead to a purchase as inevitably constant browsing would lead to degradation of books and a replacement cost but I suppose that this, in the bookstore business is a cost of doing the business and factored in to to their P&L. As for Starbucks, well I suppose there is a greater similarity and if there were plenty of room I would have no problem with it but if it were very busy and one person who had long finished their coffee and was taking up an entire table while others were looking for somewhere to sit, then I would certainly hope that that person would have some consideration and vacate the seat. I would probably kindly ask them to do so but I imagine that that scenario is covered in a Starbuck’s Operations Manual somewhere so I am not sure if it is permitted.
When I used the term “riff-raff” earlier, I had in my mind an episode of Fawlty Towers and so yes, the term is lightly used in a broad generic sense not targetting any specific group in particular.
In our case, the implementation of cover charges on “club nights” only and the increasing minimum age limit was a gradual evolution and was necessary to deal, in a practical and fair manner, with a very pronounced problem; namely that it had become increasingly difficult to serve and provide drinks and service to purchasing patrons because of the sheer number of people forming ‘staring squads’ and not consuming anything. Simply sending a waiter over yielded nothing. Throwing them out when they point blank refused to buy a thing didn’t work either. We introduced a minimum of 21 years of age to get in on club nights and still it made little difference. Then we started a cover on weekends and rapidly the non-consumers dissipated and we acquired more patrons and business improved in tandem with the atmosphere and the quality of patron. Eventually we further increased the cover and the age limit and the effect was again positive for both ourselves and our regulars patrons. It should be noted that in tandem with all this we introduced a membership scheme with benefits so that our regular patrons would see that we were working in their interests by filtering consumers. I have often said to people that one of the more intangible reasons was to give the feeling to our patrons that they were not subsidizing another person’s free night out through their own consumption of beverages. All in all, I believe that we have struck a reasonable balance. The recent introduction of the Wednesday cover was in response to yet another stage of consumer evolution and to prevent a return to the problems we had at weekends four years ago. It has worked very well and we have retained that balance between customer profile, ease of operations, consumer off-take, revenue, safety and harmony within the premises. It is easy to fill a bar but less so to fill it with the customers we would like and they in turn would also like to be in a bar with. Hence all of the above. Pricing also has a bearing on this and although we are not the cheapest place in town, neither are we the most expensive. Members are entitled to discounts and we never charge a service charge. This also helps achieve a balance. If for some, we are too expensive, then so be it; that doesn’t concern me as I am not in the business of earning their living. That may sound a bit harsh but I think it is a fair comment.
I hope that this explains further why I think the cover charges are necessary. Incidentally, I would also further like to add that these cover charges are only imposed on non-members on “Club” nights when we morph from a bar/restaurant/pub into a club. If we functioned solely as a pub then I doubt whether there would be a cover charge unless of course it became so busy that we morphed into a club at which point all the stuff outlined above would become issues by default.
I trust that you will get over the trauma of your accident Mucha Man and I accept your explanation of the tone of your previous posts in full. I am also gratified that you seem to have recognised that there are broader issues here and it is not simply a case of squeezing more money out of people in the avaricious manner some would like to assume.
Do come down and have a beer sometime and I will be happy to go into other aspects of this type of business if you have a professional interest in the subject.
Best Regards,
Bob
All these pub GMs seem to be rather good writers as well [when they are on the sober side, I like to mention as well].
Dang! Sorry I missed that.[/quote]
It was a dandy. [/quote]It was, in a nutshell what Bob said was: 
I hope it wasn’t aimed at me, I wouldn’t go to any pub and stand around without paying even if it was a Happy Hour, that’s why I had a burger and chips with a beer. And very nice it was too, especially the burger and chips, which were made by Bob, the beer was imported, so was only passed by Bob. As I’m sure all the beer in his fine establishment is.
Ta. As well 
Bob
Basically, I don’t agree with cover charges when it’s without getting back something for my money, if there is a live event, no problems. If I get a drink voucher, no problems … but just a charge because the place calls itself upscale and wants only the ‘jetset’ coming in, screw them …
I know from experience that people in Taiwan take it for granted that they come into your place and sit there whole afternoon with one drink and when it’s finished spend the remaining time only sipping water and asking for more and more water, as this is for free for us … what about labor, dish washing, air conditionong that needs to run … ha, that’s why they are sitting there all the time, free aircon … :s makes me wonder, actually it doesn’t … but this is one reason why coffee and drinks, beer are expensive in Taiwan’s pubs and coffee shops … isn’t it like running in circles? Can it be done cheaper? Aren’t people in Taiwan told that expensive is better …?
People take to much for granted, as if everything is public and just for the grabs … I have a few tables outside my place and it happens often that people by drinks and snacks at a convenience store and just go and sit down to drink and nibble it up … my wife doesn’t dare go out and ask what they want from the menu … her answer is like ’ this is Taiwan’, right … this is Taiwan, and that’s why almost everyday a pub or coffeeshop go belly up … people take everything for granted … they didn’t grow up in a pub or coffee shop culture like we did in the west … so I hope this will change in the future and people learn that businesses are there to make money and not just to sleep or enjoy the aircon.
One of my customers (delivered pies and rolls to them) in the Shida area had to close down because students (local and foreign) went their, had a drink and/or snack and where spending the rest of the afternoon surfing the web, how can one survive?
… You’re delivering a service (free wifi) and people just abuse this service … now the place is gone.
On the other hand you would say why didn’t they charge for it … are you kiddin’, who wants to pay for it … ?
But, another problem is still hidden, something people don’t see on the surface and it’s about who the real gaugers are, the landlords, they ask for rediculous rents …
But, this thread was about minimum charges and I’m going off topic … or am I? Think about it … think about Taiwan’s society for a moment … they just take everything for granted … if they are not told otherwise …
[quote=“belgian pie”]Basically, I don’t agree with cover charges when it’s without getting back something for my money, if there is a live event, no problems. If I get a drink voucher, no problems … but just a charge because the place calls itself upscale and wants only the ‘jetset’ coming in, screw them …
[/quote]
For the record, we do give drinks coupons in exchange for the cover charge. As for the ‘jetset’ remark, I trust that that is not what you inferred from my posts about why we apply it here in Carnegie’s because that is not the case. My main point was that the cover charge is a very useful mechanism employed to maintain a balance of all the elements that make the business work for both ourselves and the consumer.
[paragraph break 
]
As for the remainder of B.P.'s post I sym/empathise with portions of it, especially with the air-con, water and free WiFi elements, but it reads as a borderline rant aimed at the Taiwanese consumer and could do with a little re-wording. We shouldn’t go down that road as it would denegrate a useful and interesting discussion.
[and another wee break]
Best Regards,
Bob
[quote=“TpeBob”]
For the record, we do give drinks coupons in exchange for the cover charge. As for the ‘jetset’ remark, I trust that that is not what you inferred from my posts about why we apply it here in Carnegie’s because that is not the case. My main point was that the cover charge is a very useful mechanism employed to maintain a balance of all the elements that make the business work for both ourselves and the consumer.
[paragraph break ]
As for the remainder of B.P.'s post I sym/empathise with portions of it, especially with the air-con, water and free WiFi elements, but it reads as a borderline rant aimed at the Taiwanese consumer and could do with a little re-wording. We shouldn’t go down that road as it would denegrate a useful and interesting discussion.
[and another wee break]
Best Regards,
Bob[/quote]
I’m not referring to you but to others … old and new. That’s one of the reasons I rarely went to Taipei in the past, now I have a different reason, being busy.
BTW Bob, a couple of years ago we’ve met a few times and I got enter your place for free, thanks to a mutual acquaintance.
And I’m not only talking about Taiwanese only … read carefully … foreign students sometimes share the bad habbit … but it might be that they don’t have the budget … :s
I guess that Bob admirably covers Mucha Mans questions and needs no further comment from me.
I hope that MM has got over his traumatic experience! (Which was by all accounts quite a serious incident) and that he is okay now.
I am now thinking of a ‘fat’ or ‘unhealthy’ charge to keep skinny/healthy people out of the Chippy! what you all think?
I am also pleased to advise all that my chips are now served with 25% less fat. I have purchased a smaller scoop!
Feel free to drop by MM, I will leave my backpack at home, act my age and perhaps add something to your journals!
78 :roflmao:
OK. I’m off to bed now. Got to charge a cover tonight…
Cheers All,
Bob
Why don’t you have a nice sign saying please take a seat and the waitress will be with you shortly to take your order.
You’re inviting the poor bastard in with on one hand and kicking him out with the other.
Revolving door policy?
I’m looking forward to my next dose of fish and chips. Just need to sneak past the healthy customer inspection point.
If you had a dwarf stading on another dwarf’s shoulders with a long coat on so you couldn’t see it was 2 people, could you get away with paying for one ?
I guess you would need some sort of tube system so the one underneath can drink too, putting your glass inside your coat may raise suspicions.
I have had to scrap the idea Ironman, Sheena did not see the funny side!