Doorstepped by the Immigration Agency

Taking someone to court is not revenge. What a bizarre way to characterize defending one’s rights.

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Sure, fill yer boots. Putting a dramatic lean on property is f’ing over someone any way you look at it. If you punch me in the face and I punch you back, I’m not going to say I didn’t punch you in the face.

That’s exactly what it is.

Defending our rights to have pension and other contributions properly made (as required by law) is not “f’ing over” an employer. It is defending our legal rights.

Guy

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Not in the eyes of the one that’s suing. People here are easily offended, they assume everything is an attack on their ‘good’ standing although they fully know they are screwing you.

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Asking for what is yours is defending your rights. Taking someone to court and involving the legal machine is revenge. That’s what the court is there for, no? To make it all legal and safe?

I think perhaps they’re trying to make the point that Chinese culture did not evolve the idea of “rule of Law” - at least not in the form that we know it. It’s a technological transplant, and Taiwanese people really don’t grok how it works. The outward appearance of it is there, but ultimately the cultural soil into which (Western) law was planted has produced a weird-looking result.

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And in the eyes of the person getting sued, they’re getting “f’ed over.”

Ya, I wasn’t saying the guy, not Guy, was right or wrong in what he did. I guess my use of the English language needs to be more fluffy. He got what he believed was his by publicly, and dramatically showing his ex-boss he had the power to do so after his boss did what she believed was in her power to do which, in the end, was wrong. Or, he f’ed over his ex-boss after she f’ed him over. Tomato, tomahto.

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You guys are wild. Why should he care if the person “feels” FD over or not. Who cares what the other person who has been stealing from you feels?

I think you guys take “culture” way too far to excuse poor behavior. Taiwan still has basic concepts of fairness and human decency because these ideals are universal

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Its a symptom of assimilation into the culture when someone else’s feelings are more important than your own.

If that was addressed to me, I wasn’t excusing anything. I was just pointing out that while flatlandr is technically correct, Westerners accept that legal retribution is a highly-ritualized form of violence which is designed to avoid extended blood feuds and suchlike. We’re therefore more likely to use the word ‘justice’ rather than ‘retribution’, and someone who has lost in court doesn’t see it as a slight on his/her honour (or at least to a lesser degree). In Chinese culture this seems less true.

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Yes. But as you are not the person being sued, why use that characterization?

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Ok but this system exists for a reason. Taiwanese society accepts that there are times when honor should be slighted. That’s the purpose of the concept. If you act without honor, then you are meant to lose face accordingly. In this case, the employer was acting dishonorably by committing theft (an act that harms the trust within society especially within the relationship between employer and employee)

I suppose in a technical sense it is retribution, but I’d be hard-pressed to believe that it wouldn’t be deemed as justified in the eyes of most Taiwanese (especially based on all the taiwanese people I’ve met here so far)

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When my exboss came to court after the decision against her, she announced in court that she wouldn’t pay me anything! No respect for the court, just as she has no respect for me. (But, of course, if the court orders me to pay, then I must pay…)

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Correct. The 200k she owed she’d effectively stolen from myself and the government.

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Did the NIA officer ask what hours you and your wife work?

Yes

Scary answer.

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There’s a fine line between paranoia and forethought.