This is from traditional parenting advocate John Rosemond’s website:
Because it is the most character-building, two-letter word in the English language, children have the right to hear their parents say “No” at least three times a day.
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Children have the right to find out early in their lives that their parents don’t exist to make them happy, but to offer them the opportunity to learn the skills they-children-will need to eventually make themselves happy.
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Children have a right to scream all they want over the decisions their parents make, albeit their parents have the right to confine said screaming to certain areas of their homes.
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Children have the right to find out early that their parents care deeply for them but don’t give a hoot what their children think about them at any given moment in time.
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Because it is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, children have the right to hear their parents say “Because I said so” on a regular and frequent basis.
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Because it is the most character-building activity a child can engage in, children have the right to share significantly in the doing of household chores.
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Every child has the right to discover early in life that he isn’t the center of the universe (or his family or his parents’ lives) that he isn’t a big fish in a small pond, that he isn’t the Second Coming, and that he’s not even-in the total scheme of things-very important at all, no one is, so as to prevent him from becoming an insufferable brat.
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Children have the right to learn to be grateful for what they receive, therefore, they have the right to receive all of what they truly need and very little of what they simply want.
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Children have the right to learn early in their lives that obedience to legitimate authority is not optional, that there are consequences for disobedience, and that said consequences are memorable and, therefore, persuasive.
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Every child has the right to parents who love him/her enough to make sure he/she enjoys all of the above rights.
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That’s a very good list overall. I think it’s a real shame when parents try too hard to be their children’s “friends”. It doesn’t help things at all.
Still, I’m not keen on the idea of a total return to autocratic parenthood. I feel there’s a lot to be said for trying to develop kids’ ability to make good, reasoned decisions, and I think this can be undermined if there are too many “because I said so’s”. I’m not a parent myself, though, and I realise these things are easier said than done!
I think it’s fine for parents to explain to their kids the decisions that make regarding said kids. However, this should come of the parents’ initiative, and not as a responsive to whiny prodding from the kids: “But WHY???”
I got started in quoting/answering this OP, but the more I did the more I realized how complete bullocks it is.
Not making your kid happy?
“because I said so”
Not being friends?
Complete bullocks imo.
[quote=“igorveni”]Not being friends?
Complete bullocks imo.[/quote]What I had in mind when I said not trying too hard to be your kids’ “friend” was a certain type of parent who seems reluctant to assume any kind of authority and who seems over-eager to cater for his/her children’s wants, while perhaps neglecting the children’s true needs which include knowing how things work and where they stand. You may not have spent much time in UK supermarkets but if you had you would have seen a great many ill-behaved children screaming and shouting until they get what they want. In my mind they’re not really happy children.
It’s difficult to talk about this stuff over the Internet. I think if you and I sat down over a drink we would find that we were basically in agreement over this issue. You seem like a great parent to me.
Anyway, we agree right now on the “because I said so” thing. That’s not good in general because it undermines children’s ability to make intelligent decisions.
[quote=“joesax”][quote=“igorveni”]Not being friends?
Complete bullocks imo.[/quote]What I had in mind when I said not trying too hard to be your kids’ “friend” was a certain type of parent who seems reluctant to assume any kind of authority and who seems over-eager to cater for his/her children’s wants, while perhaps neglecting the children’s true needs which include knowing how things work and where they stand. You may not have spent much time in UK supermarkets but if you had you would have seen a great many ill-behaved children screaming and shouting until they get what they want. In my mind they’re not really happy children.
It’s difficult to talk about this stuff over the Internet. I think if you and I sat down over a drink we would find that we were basically in agreement over this issue. You seem like a great parent to me.
Anyway, we agree right now on the “because I said so” thing. That’s not good in general because it undermines children’s ability to make intelligent decisions.[/quote]
Actually I wasn’t mentioning your post but the OP.
You’re right, I haven’t spent much time in UK’s supermarket, but I did in other countries and yes I’ve seen these kids throuwing a tantrum just to have their ways. It is wrong, but these kid have never been properly educated. You can’t blame the kid imo and you’re right, there aren’t happy, neither are the parents.
I am sure we’d agree about a lot of things if we talked about this subject.
I just get on the edge when I read sites like the one linked in the OP. “Studies” and “research” especially when made or lead by psychologist. or should I say Sick_ologist.
Igor, I think you responded in a kneejerk fassion without reading very carefully. The thing says nothing about not making you kids happy. What it says is this:
This is exactly how I was raised. When I was lolling about the house and whined, “I’m BORED”, my mom would say, “Well, I’ve got plenty of housework for you to do”. I’d be out of there in a flash. My parents never tried to entertain me. That was my responsibility. And speaking of responsibility, I had a list of household tasks to do (with practically 0 allowance) that made every single one of my friends shudder. The worst of them was picking all the damn oranges off our 14-some trees…there were these big nasty spiders up there…anyway…
I think my parents way of raising me was brilliant. They didn’t pamper me and coddle me. They taught me. Their whole thing was, as soon as you’re independent enough to be able to support yourself, you can do whatever you want. Until then, you can do whatever WE want. That sort of training made me WANT to achieve independence. Freedom, like money, was something to be earned, not just something that rained down from on high. For all my faults, one thing that’s been said about me by every employer, every friend, every woman I’ve ever dated, is that I’m one of the most responsible people they’ve ever met.
And by the way, someone should translate the post above into Chinese. Especially the sentence, “Every child has the right to discover early in life that he isn’t the center of the universe (or his family or his parents’ lives) that he isn’t a big fish in a small pond, that he isn’t the Second Coming, and that he’s not even-in the total scheme of things-very important at all (no one is), so as to prevent him from becoming an insufferable brat.”
Finally, one other thing I love about John Rosemond’s line on parenting is that the most important relationship involved in the parent-child relationship is THE MARRIAGE (assuming one exists to begin with). How many couples do you know who basically sacrifice their marriage (romance, passion, together-time, etc.) because they think they have to be their child’s eteranal care-taker and entertainer? My buddy in America’s kids are in their teens, but I still can’t visit him sans children.
I try to prepare our son for the world as it is, not some candy coated TV world; so I lie to him, steal his stuff and make promises I have no intention of keeping. Now he doesn’t trust me, curses me behind my back and suspects alterier motives whenever I am nice to him.
How is the word NO a character building? And why that a kid “has the right” to hear it at least 3 times a day?
First it isn’t a right. Second it doesn’t even make sense.
It is one of my purpose to make my son happy, of course I don’t EXIST to make him happy and sure, I teach him anything he needs so that he can create his own happiness.
Why would he scream if he has been well educated? You should confine the parents for having raised a child this way.
Which completely irresponsible parents wouldn’t give a hoot about what their children think of them. My god!!!
“Because I said so” is THE most irresponsible answer you could give a child. Why not spending a little bit of time explaining your decision. It doesn’t take an hour, just a few minutes, so he can understand and reason with your “NO”.
It’s called PATIENCE LOVE and CARE.
The right, yes, not the obligation. Again, with patience, love and care these become natural. He also has the right to say NO.
I won’t even bother with the bold sentence.
Yes, they have to learn to be grateful for what they receive, it’s not a right, it’s common sense and properly educated.
Receive very little of what they simply want? What the hell is that even mean?
I would never educate my son so that he OBEYS me. Buy a dog if you want to be obeyed.
A child is a human being, he has the same right as we do, he has responsibilities, priorities, emotions, feelings, rights etc… same as we do.
A child has the right, to be happy, angry, in grief, bored, enthusiastic. He has the right to disagree and not being punished because of it. He has the right to his/her ideas and thoughts.
He has the right to have things explained to him very clearly so that he can understand them.
He has the right to have parents with enough love and care and patience.
The OP is not much about the RIGHT of children, but more of a how-can-you-make-life-easier-for-parents type of thing.
Why would he scream if he has been well educated? You should confine the parents for having raised a child this way.[/quote]I read this another way (though perhaps I misinterpreted it). I read it as meaning that children are entitled to their own feelings. I think that’s an important principle. I think it can be difficult for children when they grow up feeling that they are morally wrong for feeling anger or other negative emotions.
Not that that’s a problem for most kids nowadays, of course!
Yeah, but Igor’s point is (I think) that a well raised kid will understand what his parents want him to do, and do it it, even if he doesn’t want to, without a big todo.
Why would he scream if he has been well educated? You should confine the parents for having raised a child this way.[/quote]I read this another way (though perhaps I misinterpreted it). I read it as meaning that children are entitled to their own feelings. I think that’s an important principle. I think it can be difficult for children when they grow up feeling that they are not allowed to express negative emotions in any way.
Not that that’s a problem for most kids nowadays, of course![/quote]
You maybe right, but I read it (scream as in tantrum, rolling all over the floor etc…)
I agree that they are entitle to their feelings as in my previous post.
I noticed you forgot to bold the clause immediately after the one you didn’t like - even though it’s actually the entire point. I wish everyone in the world would learn what you find so offensive. It might help to change this sense of entitlement and inflated self-importance that so many people go around with.
Really. So you explain to your kids why they should eat beans instead of candy-bars and hope they’ll do it for the right reasons? Um. Gee, if most parents thought the way you do, our school would have no business. When parents bring their kids in and then say they like the school but their kids don’t want to go there, we patiently explain to them of course they don’t want to go there. Who would? For the same reason kids don’t want to eat their veggies.
And why should kids have the right to say no? They live for free under our roof. They are clothed, fed and educated at our expense. Of COURSE they have the obligation to do what we tell them. They didn’t ask to be born? Neither did anyone else who ever lived.
It’s those parents who believe that kids have the right to say no that are unable to make their kids do their homework and then have to let them drop out of our school because they’ve because created uncontrollable little monsters. It’s also this same kind of parents that tend to criticize the teacher, make excuses and basically believe no wrong of their kids when unfortunate others are left to deal with the product of their lack of parenting. They’re the parents whose kids, while constituting .03% of the class, take up 20% of the teacher’s time because they are used to getting every bit of attention they want…
It means your job is to give them what they need, and no to pander to their wants. They should be thinking less about wanting and more about pleasing, not the other way around. When I was 11, under the burden of the household chores I described above, I complained to my dad that my allowance was crap (which it was). My dad’s response? Well, son, I think it’s about time you started thinking about a job. THANK GOD for my dad! What an absolutely brilliant thing to teach me.
I couldn’t disagree with you more. Being your kids’ friend is what’s easy. Being “the cool dad” is what’s easy. Raising a good person is hard. Raising a good person takes firmness and consistency and, yes, patience.
[quote]Twenge and her colleagues…examined the responses of 16,475 college students nationwide who completed an evaluation called the Narcissistic Personality Inventory between 1982 and 2006.
The standardized inventory, known as the NPI, asks for responses to such statements as “If I ruled the world, it would be a better place,” “I think I am a special person” and “I can live my life any way I want to.”
The researchers describe their study as the largest ever of its type and say students’ NPI scores have risen steadily since the current test was introduced in 1982. By 2006, they said, two-thirds of the students had above-average scores, 30 percent more than in 1982.
We’re all above average!
Narcissism can have benefits, said study co-author W. Keith Campbell of the University of Georgia, suggesting it could be useful in meeting new people “or auditioning on ‘American Idol.”’
“Unfortunately, narcissism can also have very negative consequences for society, including the breakdown of close relationships with others,” he said.
[b]The study asserts that narcissists “are more likely to have romantic relationships that are short-lived, at risk for infidelity, lack emotional warmth, and to exhibit game-playing, dishonesty, and over-controlling and violent behaviors.”
Twenge, the author…said narcissists tend to lack empathy, react aggressively to criticism and favor self-promotion over helping others.[/b]
The researchers traced the phenomenon back to what they called the “self-esteem movement” that emerged in the 1980s, asserting that the effort to build self-confidence had gone too far.[/quote]
The study also finds that in spite of all the confidence the so-called self-esteem movement has given these young people, they also evidence signs of deep-seated insecurity and flat-out fear. They’ve been told all their lives that they are SPECIAL. That they are IMPORTANT. Then they go out into the world and find out that perhaps no one agrees. That Big Brother is NOT out to get them, and in fact isn’t even aware of their existence. And that in fact, instead of the charming little center of the universe they thought they were, what they are after all is simply OBNOXIOUS.
Well, I tell you what Vay, you raise your kids the way you think is best for them and I’ll do the same. We obviously have very different views on that.
This is all true Vay, but you must admit the list in the original post sort of implies that parents should be assholes too.
“NO, because I said so!” Is lame parenting.[/quote]Agreed. I think it should be possible for parents (on a good day at least!) to be consistent, fair, and reasonable with kids. That doesn’t mean being authoritarian, but on the other hand it also doesn’t mean feeling a need to ingratiate oneself with one’s children.
No offense, but I think perhaps you’re missing the irony. Today’s society is all about rights. I WANT to do this, and I SHOULD be able to because I’M a precious snowflake. That’s all great, except that it forgets one thing - with rights comes RESPONSIBILITIES. In fact, our society would be much better off if we focussed on the latter and less on the former.
Respect has to be earned. Freedom has to be won. Praise should be given for accomplishment. These are concepts that just seem to be dying out, and I think it’s a sad thing for the world.
[quote]This is all true Vay, but you must admit the list in the original post sort of implies that parents should be assholes too.
“NO, because I said so!” Is lame parenting.[/quote]
I just don’t see it. I don’t think my dad was being an asshole when he told me to get a job at age 11. He was TEACHING me something profoundly important. That if I want something, I’d damn-well better go and earn it instead of expecting someone to just give it to me because deserve it for some bogus reason like “everyone is special”.
And the point of “no because I said so” is not that parents shouldn’t explain things to their kids. I don’t know how to bring this across properly, but it’s about emphasizing character over psychology. It’s about teaching kids that parents don’t have to justify their decisions. They may choose to, but then again they may not, and that’s fine too.
It’s all about the individuization process. My parents always use to say things like, “Son, you can do whatever you want when you can support yourself, but while we’re paying for your food and shelter, you have to do what we tell you.” I totally agree with their philosophy. It’s not that they didn’t want me to be happy. OF COURSE they did. To a fault, I think. What they wisely understood was that happiness was something that they just couldn’t give me. I had to FIRST learn to ADAPT to my circumstances (their rules, housework, etc.) instead of thinking circumstances would adapt to me, and then struggle to achieve independence so I could break out, do my own thing, make my own rules.
What more important lesson in life is there? What does any parent in the animal kindgom try to teach its young but one thing: to become independent, to provide for one’s own needs as quickly as possible?
