Ex-husband's family demanding money

Discussion Open Forum
1

Okay, so this could get kinda long.

As most of you know, I’ve been back “home” here since the end of June after five or so long, hard years in the States. I went home with nothing but my son and two suitcases, and I had no family at home to go to. I got back on my feet, put myself through grad school and came back here because the cost of living is better, there’s ready access to health care, and because I wanted my son to know the Chinese side of him and his Chinese family members.

My son’s great aunt offered to put us up when we came and I accepted because we’d kept a good relationship, or so I thought. But from the moment I got here, she’s been asking for money. I gave her what I felt like I was able, but she was clearly not pleased with my offering. I moved out of her house as quickly as possible, too, as she was clearly of the mind that she would be making all decisions concerning my son, and seemed to act like I had no sense whatsoever.

She didn’t tell me before I came here what dire financial straits she’s in these days. I knew things weren’t going so well, but didn’t know how bad it was. This woman used to be very wealthy, but now she’s in a flipped position.

I don’t have any more money to give her, though. She thinks I’m loaded because a lot of rich kids attend the school where I teach, so I must be making a killing. She was actually angry at me in turns for refusing, when I moved out, to rent out an apartment for 20,000 NT per month and allow her to set up an office in it, and then when I refused to hire her friend as an amah to cook and clean for only 18,000 per month.

But I’m so mad at her now and just don’t know what to say. Thursday, apparently, her brother, who works in NY issuing Taiwanese visas to Americans—but REFUSED to issue any kind of visa to me—came back to Taiwan last week and only came to Kaohsiung for the day. She emailed me, and had called me three times asking :

“Received phone call from Jerry (her brother) this afternoon, that he back Kaohsiung and hope
to take dinner together this evening.

I am expecting and pride to introduce outstanding HouseKitten to my brothers (plural because my son’s grandfather lives here in town, but has so far refused her every attempt to introduce them. This man would be at the dinner because this brother supports him completely—I mean bought him a house and pays his every expense.)
so, please kindly grant me to take HouseKitten attend dinner together
if you agree, I will let Uncle of HouseKitten go to pick HouseKitten up to restaurant .”

Well, I didn’t get her messages until the day after this dinner. Nothing to be done about it. But before I got any of the messages, I got another email saying that “we understand” about me not letting HouseKitten join this dinner.

Yes, if I’d gotten the messages, I likely still would not have allowed him to go. One reason for this is because Jerry and his brother (the father of my ex) are the only family members that the ex-still talks to and I don’t want the ex to have anything to do with anything. (Right now, the ex isn’t on the island.)

And “B” my kid has been getting lots of invites these holidays to things that I’m very obviously not invited to. I understand that I’m not “family” any more, but I don’t want this situation because I don’t want a big obvious line drawn between “family” and Mommy, especially not in the Chinese sense.

And Thirdly, the last time this great aunt tried to force HouseKitten to visit his grandfather (who was the one to refuse contact, because she was trying to do this behind my back) I told her when I found out that I didn’t appreciate that, and she told me that every one in the family knew what kind of terrible person I was because my ex had told them “everything” and they all believed every word. They’d known him longer than I had and he was the most perfect human ever to take a dump in this world. (And that’s the way he’s treated, too, because he’s the first son.)

So I don’t want my son allowed a lot of time when I’m not present around people who feel this way about me. And besides, as the first son of the first son, every damn time I allow him to be around them without me, he comes home with “little prince syndrome.”

And I have been letting him go with his great aunt each Saturday and Sunday morning to practice Tai Chi because he loves it and he’s good at it—and I really did want them to have a relationship. I used to get very afraid of being so alone in the States because if something happened to me, that was it—he was totally alone.

But when she got pissed at me because I didn’t know about the dinner and didn’t respond, I told her to give me a break. I’m tired of these kinds of arguments. It happens that he place I’m living now has a built in office space that would be perfect for her former plan, and she was really pissed when I refused to allow her to work here, and we had to have a huge go-round about that.

Half this woman’s problem is that she just “thinks” she knows what I’m all about already, and the other half is that she thinks I don’t know anything. She doesn’t ask questions, just lays blame.

So, anyway, in reply, she informed me via email that she would be by at the usual time in the morning to pick up HouseKitten, (she missed this morning) and then asked me if she could borrow thirty grand.

And this thirty grand number keeps coming up. I’m not sure what it’s about. It’s true that when my husband and I first got together she helped out with tickets for me to visit my mother when she was ill, but that’s the only thing I can think of. I asked her for $300 US once, when I first got to the States and I was desperate. I don’t know what this is. I’m beginning to think my ex told her some crap or something.

But the irony here is that I just told someone tonight that I don’t want to sue my ex’s family for the support he never pays for our son. I’d rather have the peace and distance that that debt seems to bring.

No way my son is going wit his aunt in the morning, but if anyone has any ideas of how to deal with this, could you let me know? I really don’t believe she was ever this ugly of a person before. She’s just awful!

2

My only concern would be custody, and if you are in a position where they could potentially wrest that away from you. I don’t know anything about those issues.

Otherwise, I’d just try to avoid them as much as possible. I would say that if HouseKitten is to have a relationship with that side of the family, it is the responsibility of TomCat to make that happen. He should be responsible for all the arrangements and so on, including messages being passed back and forth. It is, after all, presumably his native language and his family, and after all, (as you have been told) he is Perfect, so he obviously will know how to do all this.

I would simply avoid all requests for money, and if you can’t and have to say something, I would say that you are unfortunately saving every penny toward HouseKitten’s college tuition in the United States, because of course we all want HouseKitten to have the very best education possible, so sorry, there’s just nothing to spare at the moment. Oh me oh my, I don’t even get my hair done anymore. But it’s no sacrifice for such an intelligent and wonderful child as HouseKitten, don’t you think?

Full disclosure – when I was married to a foreigner, they were unable to get visas to any country I was resident in, and actually they were far nicer and more reasonable people than my ex. But I say this to point out that I have not been in your precise situation so others may have better advice.

3

[quote=“ironlady”]My only concern would be custody, and if you are in a position where they could potentially wrest that away from you. I don’t know anything about those issues.

Otherwise, I’d just try to avoid them as much as possible. I would say that if HouseKitten is to have a relationship with that side of the family, it is the responsibility of TomCat to make that happen. He should be responsible for all the arrangements and so on, including messages being passed back and forth. It is, after all, presumably his native language and his family, and after all, (as you have been told) he is Perfect, so he obviously will know how to do all this.

I would simply avoid all requests for money, and if you can’t and have to say something, I would say that you are unfortunately saving every penny toward HouseKitten’s college tuition in the United States, because of course we all want HouseKitten to have the very best education possible, so sorry, there’s just nothing to spare at the moment. Oh me oh my, I don’t even get my hair done anymore. But it’s no sacrifice for such an intelligent and wonderful child as HouseKitten, don’t you think?

Full disclosure – when I was married to a foreigner, they were unable to get visas to any country I was resident in, and actually they were far nicer and more reasonable people than my ex. But I say this to point out that I have not been in your precise situation so others may have better advice.[/quote]

Thanks for your reply, Ironlady. All good advice, but TomCat isn’t on this island and the reason I AM here is because he’s not, I’m reasonably sure he’s married to another foreigner woman from a European country, and I was granted custody in the divorce–basically, my ex just “gave” him to me and didn’t even ask for visitation, which is great. But he also doesn’t pay support and people (some people, anyway) keep telling me I should sue his family for this momey as they keep asking me for money–which if find so hiddiously inappropriate.

If I thought it would do any good, I’d find the thirty grand and give it to her, but as I still have my son, I doubt it would help. Also, she borrowed $200,000 from a friend shortly after I got here and I have a feeling that has run out. But Jerry, that brother in NY, I think has given her a wad of cash, too, now I think, though she told me when I got here that she refused to ask him. Anyway, thirty Gs is nothing to what she owes, if she told me the truth and I really don’t think this would be the answer, so I’m not giving her any money.

But yeah, maybe I should live in Hong Kong next year? Or something.

4

housecat, I read this late last night and thought it over for a long while. I haven’t come up with anything much different than ironlady.

You’re not in a position to be doling out cash (even if you were, you and the kitten are pretty much on your own, so squirreling it away would be most prudent); your son’s relationships with that side of the family shouldn’t be founded on, nor conditioned by cash. Given that the ex- has up and gone, it’s the responsibility of those relatives to establish a relationship with housekitten. But if they don’t see that acting with decency towards his mom is a precondition for that, your son’s better off without them.

5

[quote=“Jaboney”]housecat, I read this late last night and thought it over for a long while. I haven’t come up with anything much different than ironlady.

You’re not in a position to be doling out cash (even if you were, you and the kitten are pretty much on your own, so squirreling it away would be most prudent); your son’s relationships with that side of the family shouldn’t be founded on, nor conditioned by cash. Given that the ex- has up and gone, it’s the responsibility of those relatives to establish a relationship with housekitten. But if they don’t see that acting with decency towards his mom is a precondition for that, your son’s better off without them.[/quote]

Yeah, and maybe I really underestimated things with them as, the entire time I was in the States, Christmas gifts came twice and no birthday, no Chinese New Year, no letter, no card, nothing. The great aunt and the uncle were the only ones to keep in touch at all.

That’s what I was talking to my son about today. There’s no way in hell I’m sending him off with anyone talking to me, or thinking about me, in such a way. But I get to be the baddie and explain this crap to my son. :fume: And that’s damn hard to do without saying less than great things abou them. But the Kitten and I do have a very good relationship, so he’s pretty supportive of my decisions. He trusts me.

Anyway, Jaboney, thanks for the moral support. It means a lot.

6

to my limited mind, the ex has given up all right to the Housekitten, so there IS no family on that side. tell them to naff off, and change your phone number, and move, and never let them find either you or the Housekitten again. their connection has been severed. They may buy you back at extremely expensive rates, but we both know it’d be only for the money.

Tough medicine, i know.

7

I would definitely move, but that’s just me. As much as you want your son to have some family ties, these folks seem to have you pidegeonholed in terms of what they think you are and what they expect from you. You have to sit down with yourself and determine whether there is even a slim chance that you will be able to change their thinking. If not, you have to consider other options, such as moving to another city. Your son can always talk to them by phone, or see them on special occasions. I just don’t think it’s worth the hassle & stress living in such close proximity to people with such unreasonable expectations. If they won’t change, then you have to do something.

And, of course it’s none of anybody’s business but your own, but I think it’s a shying crime that you don’t receive some kind of child support from your son’s father. He must be a real snake if he doesn’t willingly financially contribute to your son’s development. I would be tossing that fact in the general direction of your ex’s family at every possible opportunity, but of course, that’s just me again. If they had any decency at all, they would be covering for his slackness.

Or, conversely, you could just ignore it all, and hope it all goes away. Which it might, at least the money part. The other attitudes, I would not be so sure.

Best of luck in dealing with this. Chin up, onwards & upwards.

8

[quote=“TheGingerMan”]I would definitely move, but that’s just me. As much as you want your son to have some family ties, these folks seem to have you pidegeonholed in terms of what they think you are and what they expect from you. You have to sit down with yourself and determine whether there is even a slim chance that you will be able to change their thinking. If not, you have to consider other options, such as moving to another city. Your son can always talk to them by phone, or see them on special occasions. I just don’t think it’s worth the hassle & stress living in such close proximity to people with such unreasonable expectations. If they won’t change, then you have to do something.

And, of course it’s none of anybody’s business but your own, but I think it’s a shying crime that you don’t receive some kind of child support from your son’s father. He must be a real snake if he doesn’t willingly financially contribute to your son’s development. I would be tossing that fact in the general direction of your ex’s family at every possible opportunity, but of course, that’s just me again. If they had any decency at all, they would be covering for his slackness.

Or, conversely, you could just ignore it all, and hope it all goes away. Which it might, at least the money part. The other attitudes, I would not be so sure.

Best of luck in dealing with this. Chin up, onwards & upwards.[/quote]

Secure the perimiter. Got t. :wink: I really, really like you man. No matter what anyone else says.

9

A lot of children grow up without knowing much or anything about one side of the family. I barely knew any of my grandparents, because they were off in distant lands, and only had a slight relationship with a couple uncles and aunts on my dad’s side, none on my mom’s. Never thought this was odd in the least growing up and since I didn’t know them there was little to feel sad about that I didn’t know them.

If your husband’s side are all manipulative snakes, who can’t for the life of them put their own problems aside for the healthy development of your child, then perhaps you and housekitten are better off without them. I just don’t see how exposure to these people is not doing more harm than good. Letting your child feel wistful is surely better than letting him be manipulated and seeing just how low people can get?

10

[quote=“TheGingerMan”]I would definitely move, but that’s just me. As much as you want your son to have some family ties, these folks seem to have you pidegeonholed in terms of what they think you are and what they expect from you. You have to sit down with yourself and determine whether there is even a slim chance that you will be able to change their thinking. If not, you have to consider other options, such as moving to another city. Your son can always talk to them by phone, or see them on special occasions. I just don’t think it’s worth the hassle & stress living in such close proximity to people with such unreasonable expectations. If they won’t change, then you have to do something.

And, of course it’s none of anybody’s business but your own, but I think it’s a shying crime that you don’t receive some kind of child support from your son’s father. He must be a real snake if he doesn’t willingly financially contribute to your son’s development. I would be tossing that fact in the general direction of your ex’s family at every possible opportunity, but of course, that’s just me again. If they had any decency at all, they would be covering for his slackness.

Or, conversely, you could just ignore it all, and hope it all goes away. Which it might, at least the money part. The other attitudes, I would not be so sure.

Best of luck in dealing with this. Chin up, onwards & upwards.[/quote]

Couldn’t agree more. These people seem to think you owe them something for ditching their perfect son. You need to tell them where to get off or simply walk away from them. It sounds to be that sooner or later they will turn your son into whatever his father is, or teach him to look down on you in the same way they do. I don’t envy your situation at all. Hope you can work it out, because it isn’t going to work itself out.

11

TheGingerMan speaks the truth, if I were you I would up sticks and get away from them. You never know what kind of crap they want to pull on you, and omens are not good. Also, with the mindset they have, the best you can do is to keep him away from it. Once he grows up, he can look them up himself, if he’s got the cash for it, that is.

12

In most cases I would wholeheartedly agree. However, considering how much emotional ties and investment people (particularly in Taiwan) relate to what position money puts them in, it may be a great blessing that she doesn’t have that cloud hanging over her head. What’s the point in receiving any help, much less financial help, if EVERY time the check came it came with emotional manipulation and/or baggage? Better to just be poor than to be comfortable with a foot up one’s ass, to put it bluntly.

Hang in there Housecat. This is just a test and what blessing God has for you, he has for you alone and nothing can stop it.

13

I’d move ASAP. Korea is pretty good for ESL teachers, especially if you can land a public school job. You’ll earn more and cost of living is on par with Taiwan(despite what some may say). Or go to Hong Kong, you won’t save as much but the quality of life there seems better than Taiwan, and definitely more international.

14

I just hope you can be 100% confident that your custody is in no danger. Is there any possible way you could lose him?

Losing him would kill you, I think. Sounds fairly ruinous for his development, too. If that’s possible, by hook or by crook, then I’d pack up and leave the country. Only you can measure the risk.

I wish you and him the best.

15

I’m confused. Housecat’s stated that custody is a settled matter. Is there any reason to worry that the estranged father’s family could reopen what’s settled and done? (Beyond, heaven forbid, the possibility of anything happening to housecat. In which case custody might be contested.)

‘Pick up stakes and flee’ strikes me as way over the top.

16

[quote=“Jaboney”]I’m confused. Housecat’s stated that custody is a settled matter. Is there any reason to worry that the estranged father’s family could reopen what’s settled and done? (Beyond, heaven forbid, the possibility of anything happening to housecat. In which case custody might be contested.)

‘Pick up stakes and flee’ strikes me as way over the top.[/quote]
And it may be over the top. Housecat is evidently discounted as a mother and maybe even a person, by her son’s paternal family. If custody is ironclad, then never mind. On the other hand, if custody isn’t in fact ironclad it’s another story.

There is no harm in re-asking. This would be an excellent time to discover loopholes, I think. That’s my point.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

17

Off to work now, but the divorce and custody I have were all a matter of my ex’s doing. He divorced me, with no input from me, though I did try to be involved in the process. Anyway, I was in the States at the time. Custody is granted to me. There is no mention of visitation. Child support is a pittiance, but is never paid. It’s the non-payment of this support that I feel / felt? like bought me a bit of security, as if I ask for it, it will the sum of support for my child’s entire childhood is due at once. So if they don’t want to pay up, they have to stay off my back. Or at least the ex himself.

I’m just so shocked at the behavior of the rest of them. From talking to his uncle, who was also ticked off at me, it seems, I feel like they sat there together and had a good gripe about me. But I can’t really say.

Picking up sticks and moving is drastic. I’d like to stay the year out, of couse, and just avoid them. Then I don’t mind so much moving after that. But–I guess I need to find out, like Jaboney said, if it’s possible that I could have to battle the FAMILY for custody. Can anyone here help with that?

This is really, really, tragic, though and I haven’t slept well for the past couple nights trying to work it out. And it’s not just that he won’t know well this side of the family, but I just don’t really HAVE family of my own much. My whole life, of course, has been like that, but since I’ve been a single mom, it gets scarry sometimes.

Plus, the way I ususally deal with stuff is to overthink as much as possible and try to anticipate as much as I can. I really didn’t see this. I totally underestimated these people.

18

Yes, battling the family for custody would be my concern. I would be concerned that their disdain for you might somehow grow or become such that the uncle hires a lawyer and sues. Or something. As has been pointed out, this may be unwarranted worry on my part. I just don’t like where this seems to be headed: Housecat is not respected, she’s not a citizen, a desperate and controlling paternal relative who is broke, an American paternal relative with assets to protect, and some of the paternal family not having even met housekitten yet. What happens if they change their mind? A voicemail saying “we understand.” Understand what? If housekitten had attended the restaurant, what would have happened that they’d have expected Housecat to understand?

Something doesn’t feel right, IMO.

We can’t pick our family, unfortunately. If custody was awarded by a ROC court, you’re probably ok. I hope. We hope.

19

Exactly. I don’t remember any paternity case where the foreigner has won. OTOH, if these people are broke they probably can’t afford to raise a kid they stole off his mom, but hey, this is Taiwan and not being able to afford kids never stopped anyone having 14 of 'em. I would just want to put myself out of the reach for my own peace of mind, and make sure a young and impressionable person was not influenced by them in any way.

20

As long as housecat stays alive, custody should be settled for good. The only one able to try and overturn that would be the father, which is not the least interested, or so it seems.

The family can huff and puff and ask for money, they are better ignored and avoided.