If this person is convicted of abusing prisoners in Iraq, what do you all think should be the punishment?
I think that if convicted, the death penalty would not be appropriate in this situation, even though I advocated just such a punishment in an earlier post. However, given the fact that the soldier abused the prisoners and that her actions, along with others, caused a bad situation in Iraq to become much, much worse,which has endangered the lives of all soldiers serving in Iraq much more than had previously happened, I would be willing to say that a sentence of life imprisonment would be sufficient.
The reason I would not want the death penalty applied is that she is not charged with having killed any prisoners and I don’t think that the death penalty should be applied unless a person has actually killed another person.
What are some other thoughts on this subject? I would be really interested to hear what punishment you all think this soldier and others like her should receive.
For starters, I hope they take her baby away. Her family’s arguments that she was a paper pusher and hadn’t been trained to handle prisoners and she was in the wrong place at the wrong time is the biggest bunch of bullshit I’ve ever heard. I know that most American soldiers aren’t exactly the brightest bulbs, but how stupid can you be? I understand they might not be able to watch Survivor or Friends or satisfy their Taco Bell cravings on a regular schedule over there in Iraq, but for fuck’s sake, play cards or something. No matter how erotically tempting photos of nude Iraqi hunks in a pyramid stance are, as an American I feel pretty embarrased about this crap–get these idiots outta there before they sink all of us.
You think a life sentence would be appropiate for someone doing nothing more than humiliating someone else (despicable though it is)??? I suppose you advocate cutting off the hand of a kid that steals a candy bar??? Or putting out the eyes of someone who leers at you??? Move to Iraq. You’ll fit right in!
Well I hope they throw her away for a long time. Hope she doesn’t get a light sentence because she’s a girl. Make an example of the offenders, scare the bejeezus out of the troops. Make it known that if anyone commits crimes, and we could call these “war crimes” the punishment will be swift and severe. Maybe they should have war crimes trials for these bastards. They didn’t during WWII when British, Canadian, American and Russians committed war crimes during the war, they were the victors. oh well just my opinion.
when you take a picture of yourself laughing as you abuse prisoners, the whole “i was just doing what i was told” excuse really doesn’t hold water anymore. what the fuck were these people thinking?
What’s all the fuss about with those pictures? From my point of view, it is kind of a prank. Tasteless, of course, but no physical harm was done. I mean, they didn’t shove broom sticks up their asses or anything, right?
The soldiers in Iraq are frustrated, because they are not really told what they are fighting for and they encounter situations they might not have been trained for. So, those pictures are an outlet for their feelings.
Of course, it is very unfortunate, that those pictures are out for the whole world to see. It is a wonderful opportunity for do-gooders and anti-americans to blast the States and the Muslim world can get worked up again about stuff that pales in comparison to what they are doing in their own prisons (or even behind the doors of their homes).
Get the people who took the pictures out of Iraq and just wait a couple of weeks. Something else will happen by then, and those pictures will be forgotten.
You forget that these pictures relate to something that their culture is very sensitive to and I don’t think it qualifies as a prank only for several reasons, it goes far beyond that.
It’s not only tasteless but also humiliating and I would not want to be at the receiving end of such a “prank” myself and then find my picture all over the internet/media.
And judging by a statement of a member of the US committee that questioned Rumsfeld and Co. there are pictures and videos that have not been released yet (and never may be) which show worst, including torture, rape and murder.
This thread is about what should happen to these particular woman and men who “build naked-Iraqi-men-pyramids” and the like. They acted stupid, no doubt, but the damage to the prisoners is minimal, I mean, you can’t even see their faces. It could be anybody for all I can see.
It was humiliating, and no one wants to be at the receiving end of such actions (except for maybe some drunk college students), but the soldiers are humans too. They live amongst hatred and are in fear of terror 24/7. Who could blame some of them for taking it out on prisoners who for the most part are in prison for a reason?
I don’t doubt that there are pictures of more serious offenses, but if you want to punish severely, then please keep things in perspective and do it for serious crimes only. For those pictures my punishment would be to dismiss the offenders from the army and that would be it.
I think from a international point of view, it’s just another log in the fire about how wrong the US was to goto Iraq this time.
This is not a joke or a prank, we’re the invading force that came in on the moral highgrounds. This kind of behavior undermines everything we were trying to accomplish.
Screw Arab sensibilities. We have been tiptoeing around them for 40 years and it has only fed the frenzy. Prosecute these people to the fullest but no more than normal and that will be justice enough. If they have killed prosecute exactly like for any killing. If rape, for any rape, for abuse, as in any other case. WE will prosecute these people and we will see that the Iraqis get justice and then this will go away in a year or so. Rascal, get off your high moral horse. Read my other post. Throughout Russia 60 years later the German soldier is remembered far more than these Americans will in another 60 years. The difference in real and true abuse is real and truly apparent. This will not be remembered by the Arabs in 60 years.
Abu Ghraib pictures are recruitment posters for Al Qaeda
[quote]Commenting on the shocking pictures of Iraqi prisoners being tortured, Dr Akbar Ahmed of the American University told a news service that the one that showed a smiling American woman soldier pointing at a naked, hooded prisoner,
I agree to prosecuting these offenders to the fullest extent available by law. The key is “according to law”, not by a lynch mob, vigilante type justice some posters seem to advocate. The U.S. got rid of that kind of thinking (mostly) along with the KKK. But it seems some KKK type supporters are alive and well on Forumosa
With each post you contribute to this thread, your blatant ignorance keeps shining through brighter and brighter.
First of all, since I think it is safe to assume that I am one of the people you are referring to with your comments that “some KKK type supporters are alive and well on Forumosa,” I will reply that this shows how mistaken you are about the KKK. The soldiers in Iraq who abused those prisoners were the ones who acted like the KKK. (Seeing that female guard dragging the prisoner across the floor with some kind of rope around his neck is not really that far removed from the photos showing lynching victims with ropes around their necks hanging from a tree).
In addition, the KKK has always been an organization which has chosen to take the law into their own hands, rather than wait for “legal” justice, whenever they feel like someone deserves punishment. This is exactly what those guards did in Iraq. They chose not to wait for a trial to happen before deciding whether certain prisoners were guilty or innocent of anything. Instead, the guards decided to be the judge, jury and, possibly(if recent reports are accurate) executioners of the prisoners. Thus, this is KKK type activity.
The KKK is also an organization which is always passing the buck whenever anyone accuses them of wrong doing. They always blame minorities, Jews, liberal media, or the government for their problems, instead of accepting any of the blame for things that they have caused to happen. This is also what those guards in Iraq are doing. Attorneys and family members for the guards are blaming their superiors for all the problems.
Thus, Shin-Gua, I am sure my post won’t be very persuasive with you, especially since you think that the soldiers in Iraq did, according to your first post in this thread,“nothing more than humiliating someone else (despicable though it is),” but perhaps you could learn more about certain groups, like the KKK, before you decide to accuse people of being like them.
Your comparision to Germany in WWII and that your attempts to “silence me” because I happen to be German bore me.
But reading between the lines I would say you have just expressed your ignorance once more towards those at the receiving end, in particular Muslims and Arabs that were arrested but not proscecuted and hence are suspects only, with some even being innocent (as we can safely assume from the fact that prisoners have been released before without ever being charged).
But I know, I look at the small pieces again and if I looked at the bigger picture like you suggested then locking them up for an indefinite period of time would be entirely ok, including some torture, rape and murder thrown in for free. And if innocents get caught up in it that
You care about people who are merely suspects being arrested and detained and you have a valid point. Now apply that equally to the US citizens who are involved “allegedly involved” with these abuses. When the day comes that it has been proved, then they will be punished appropriately. So have no worries there.
Have you ever heard me defend the abuse and torture of prisoners? No. Have you heard me say that if these people are proved guilty that they should not be punished? No. What you do hear me saying is that just because a few people have acted inappropriately is no reason to allow people like you to score political points by demanding Rumsfeld resign and Bush do some sort of politica suicide. Sorry, won’t work. BUT if it were proved that this was systemic and that the higher ups approved it and/or knew about it but did nothing to stop it, then you have a whole different issue.
What’s wrong Rascal? Don’t you like to hear about Germany? I like to bring it up because there is a true example of sick racist oppression. It sort of balances the faux outrage that posters like you have when you frequently bring up so-called American “abuses.” The difference is that we will punish ours and see that justice is achieved. What did Nazi Germany ever do but flip the switch or turn on the gas? Those Rascal were REAL abuses in a system that was riddled with them. Our system is not perfect but it is hardly comparable with the sick demented and twisted perversion that all of Germany succombed to most eagerly and willingly. That my dear Rascal is the very major difference. AND I will keep bringing it up so sorry to “bore” you.
Fred, even i did not think you would sink to the level of a guttersnipe, which is exactly what you have done in attempting to hijack this thread into another of your praise america or screw europe tirades.
This is a thread about the actions of certain US personnel in Iraq, what the f*ck has actions by Hitler got to do with it.
