Fewer naturalizations - Spaint

Taiwan Living in Taiwan
21

@Belgian Pie… your country doesn’t require me to become stateless before I gain citizenship and then threaten to make me stateless again for any arbitrary reason, does it?

@finley… It’s not quite as cut and dry as we would like to believe. The women married a Taiwanese guy and got citizenship and then almost immediately got knocked up by her Vietnamese friend. She then divorced the local guy and tried to get married to the Vietnamese guy, at which point immigration officials starting suspecting that she had the first marriage just to get her hands on ROC nationality. Still a crappy reason to cancel her citizenship. I’m pretty sure that violates some UN treaty.

22

[quote=“Hokwongwei”]@Belgian Pie… your country doesn’t require me to become stateless before I gain citizenship and then threaten to make me stateless again for any arbitrary reason, does it?

@finley… It’s not quite as cut and dry as we would like to believe. The women married a Taiwanese guy and got citizenship and then almost immediately got knocked up by her Vietnamese friend. She then divorced the local guy and tried to get married to the Vietnamese guy, at which point immigration officials starting suspecting that she had the first marriage just to get her hands on ROC nationality. Still a crappy reason to cancel her citizenship. I’m pretty sure that violates some UN treaty.[/quote]

No and no, not arbitrary, just serious criminal cases, terrorism. But they also do it for fake marriages tho.

23

Sure, I gathered the situation must be something like that, but she shouldn’t have been granted citizenship in the first place. In most countries you must live and work there for several years, and generally prove that you’re an upstanding citizen, before you can apply for naturalization. Simply being married shouldn’t be valid grounds for application. That’s just asking for trouble, innit.

24

In the ol country it used to be like that, automatic with marriage. Very good business it was. I was paranoid about checking my status every month because many people had their identities stolen and found themselves married. And the Law would be against you, it was assumed you agreed, never mind reasoning.

25

You get a recommend for this! Congrats. You should write a novella on navigating the Taiwanese justice system as an innocent foreigner facing trumped up charges.[/quote]

I need to first learn how to spell threw. Lol

Not quite novella worthy but part of a chapter in a book I am writing.

26

Fantastic news!!

:banana: :dance: :bouncy:

27

My two pennies:

When my now wife was going through the process to get her green card. There were lots of questions that seem silly. Were you ever a prostitute? Are you working for a foreign govt? And the such. The reason for all these question is that if they find out that you were , you would then lose your Green Card. And if you got citizenship, you might lose that too.

There were some nazi prison guards that have been in the USA as citizens for decades that lost that citizenship because they had been deemed to have lied on the green card application.

So yes, you could lose your US citizenship too if you lied on your green card ap, and citizenship ap.

If the viet woman married a taiwanese person and quite soon got into an affair with someone else, and she lost her citizenship. I think that is not incorrect. She got the citizenship through marriage and now she divorced?

I think if she divorced the man, then it stands to reason her original reason for marriage is invalid.

Unless the marriage had gone on for many years already, but if she just married and then divorced in a short time frame, it stands to reason she may lose her citizenship by marriage.

The US has some good provisions for Green Card holders though. Once they have their green cards, they can divorce (after two years) and still retain their green card. Or if they can show spousal battery they can still apply for 10 year green card even if they divorce before the two year initial green card expiry.

That is a protection of civil rights.

But I would imagine if a foreigner married an American and got a green card and then had a child with someone else and was facing divorce, chances are she will lose her two year initial green card status.

But once a citizen, it would be unlikely. As the citizenship process takes a good many years.

Once a citizen it would take something more major, like being guilty of mass murder or some such in his/her former country, etc.

28

I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word citizenship Tommy.
I can understand it being revoked if lying on the application or having committed war crimes prior to application.
But any crime after gaining citizenship you should still have full citizen rights…that’s the whole point! You can’t have different classes of citizens!

29

[quote=“headhonchoII”]I don’t think you understand the meaning of the word citizenship Tommy.
I can understand it being revoked if lying on the application or having committed war crimes prior to application.
But any crime after gaining citizenship you should still have full citizen rights…that’s the whole point! You can’t have different classes of citizens![/quote]

I don’t agree, we had the Russian and Albanian mafia coming to Belgium, aquiring nationality. Terrorizing businesses and just let them doing so withouthout being punished? Prison is not a punishment for these people, taking away citizenship is.

30

That conflicts with the Meaning of citizenship.

31

No it doesn’t … you’re born in a country or you try to outsmart and use it by other means … not the same, marrying someone for a bunch of money to persue a criminal career is not a reason to aquire citizenship.

32

Eh it doesn’t/shouldnt matter why you acquired
citizenship only that you have
citizenship. Otherwise you start getting
governments coming in and removing citizen rights for all sorts of reasons,
then wars start.

33

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Eh it doesn’t/shouldnt matter why you acquired
citizenship only that you have
citizenship. Otherwise you start getting
governments coming in and removing citizen rights for all sorts of reasons,
then wars start.[/quote]

Hasn’t it already?

34

[quote=“headhonchoII”]Eh it doesn’t/shouldnt matter why you acquired
citizenship only that you have
citizenship. Otherwise you start getting
governments coming in and removing citizen rights for all sorts of reasons,
then wars start.[/quote]

It is not why as to how, meaning by illegal/illicit means. Then I concur: citizenship should be lost if under those parameters. Why must we go through all the loops but someone just skips by fraudulently? That is the point. Goose, gander and all that jazz. You should lose your nationality if proven to have a green card marriage or other coercive/deceiving methods. It is a question of following the Law, not bending it. If the governments remove citizenship for other reasons other than that, then we do have the right to scream and shout and protest and sue. Which is being done already recognizing the porthole opened by the “morality” clause.

35

Fewer naturalizations.

That is all.

36

[quote=“spaint”]Fewer naturalizations.

That is all.[/quote]

Non Native.

Less = non countable nouns

Fewer = countable nouns

:blush:

37

I’m glad I’m not the only one twitching when I see the thread title.

Man, I’ve been teaching English grammar too long. All those “9 items or less” signs in North America never bothered me before, but they do now.

38

No part of the US constitution discriminates between a born citizen and a naturalized one (except for serving in the presidency). If a court can’t strip me, a native Californian, of my US citizenship, why should it be able to strip anyone else of it?

39

I’m glad I’m not the only one twitching when I see the thread title.

Man, I’ve been teaching English grammar too long. All those “9 items or less” signs in North America never bothered me before, but they do now.[/quote]

:smiley: Not intentional, I assure you.

40

No part of the US constitution discriminates between a born citizen and a naturalized one (except for serving in the presidency). If a court can’t strip me, a native Californian, of my US citizenship, why should it be able to strip anyone else of it?[/quote]

Wasn’t there a provision for treason? I think I saw something along those lines in some spy movie. :saywhat: