For Better or Worse?

Life Dating & Relationships
1

Very true gao_bo_han. If that is of course what he honestly thinks. If he minds, she’d better know about it.[/quote]

Of course. However, I’m a little perturbed by the idea that a guy would mind if his wife gained weight. A close family friend’s husband wanted a seperation, and he got it, meaning he packed his bags and left. Our friend was devasted, but she convinced him to meet with her to discuss their problems. His top issue was apparently her weight again, which was considerable. Before he would consider moving back in, he wanted to know how long it would take her to lose the weight. Eventually he divorced her, which completley crushed her. I’ve known her most of my life, and I can tell you she’s one of the sweetest, kindest women in the world. In church she sings with the voice of an angel. And her husband divorced her because she got fat.

Whatever happened to these words here?

“In the presence of God, our family and friends, I offer you my solemn vow to be your faithful partner in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad, and in joy as well as in sorrow. I promise to love you unconditionally, to support you in your goals, to honor and respect you, to laugh with you and cry with you, and to cherish you for as long as we both shall live.”

Apparently some people aren’t paying attention when they make these solemn vows. People get divorced at the drop of hat these days, perhaps forgetting they vowed to stay married through poverty, sickness, sorrow, and bad times. I know what you’re saying, games, and I agree that honesty is always the best policy. But if some guy “minds” that his wife has gained weight, then I think he needs to examine his own faults before he criticizes his wife for hers.

2

(Gao_bo_han, I see what you’re saying about loving your spouse for who you married, what’s inside, people’s appearance change, etc., and sorry to hear what happened to your friend. I’ve heard things like that too. Sad, but it’s a shallow world we live in…) BUT-when I marry someone, and that person thinks being “off the market” is a license to be a fat bufugly slob, not keep in shape, not work out, eat tons of carbs and fat everyday, not take care of their skin and physical appearance, all sense of style goes out the window-that is valid for return for refund.

If you read my previous posts in this thread, I’m all for, “Honey, it’s not the pants that make you look fat, it’s your fat ass that makes you look fat.” In any relationship keeping yourself looking nice FOR yourself and for your partner is just as important as any other factor that makes a relationship work.

Look good and you will feel good. Your partner loves someone who’s confident about themselves. If you’re fat, no need to get validation from your mate. Get off your ass and do something or shut up. I can’t stand people who complain about being fat, lazy, ugly, stupid, etc. but don’t do something about it if it bothers them so much.

People who take care of themselves demand a partner who does the same. “If I look good, honey, you better look good too.” Purrr…

Rock on.

3

Of course. However, I’m a little perturbed by the idea that a guy would mind if his wife gained weight … (shorted for brevity) … But if some guy “minds” that his wife has gained weight, then I think he needs to examine his own faults before he criticizes his wife for hers.[/quote]

Yes, ugly story. Still … I think being honest about the issue was better … for the wife. Not to diminish her troubles, but what good is a guy like that anyways? If he can’t get over it, good riddance.

Do you by any chance have an idea how long he had pent up that issue and never said anything about it?

4

Now, see, Mrs. the chief said this to me not 2 days ago.

WTF?
Have you ever heard a stupid person complain about being stupid?
I think you better back off on the supplements, man, you’re getting Roid Dopey.
Or is your cute little girlie out of town again and you’re Lackanookie Dumb??

5

It’s amazing how the first half of your paragraph makes you sound like a decent, stand up kind of guy I’d like to have a beer with, and the latter half makes you sound like a shallow prick I wouldn’t give the time of day. You call my friend’s ex-husband shallow for leaving her because she got fat, and then go on to say that you’d do the same thing yourself in his shoes.

I’m all for self-empowerment, and obviously we agree that the best solution to low self-esteem is to go out there and do something about it. But when you take your vows, take them seriously. I’ll say again. If you take the standard vow, then you promise to stick by your wife through poverty, sickness, sorrow, and bad times. If her weight gain causes you sorrow, tough shitskies.

Although to be fair, perhaps in your case some modified vows would be more appropriate. Something like these:

“I promise to a fair weather husband, and love and cherish you through all the good times, wealth, health, and happiness. If any of these things are missing then you’re up for refund. I promise you my undying loyalty and compassion, unless of course you gain weight, stop using skin moisturizer, get lazy, stop working out, get sick, or in any other way displease me or become inconvenient. Because if any of those things happen you’re up for refund. And with this ring, I thee wed for eternity, or until you don’t meet the standards, because then you’re up for refund. Or until you grow old and lose your beauty, because then you’re definitely up for refund, and you can expect I’ll be marrying a younger, more energetic model, if you know what I mean. Actually expect that to be around your 50th birthday, because that’s usually when guys like me divorce once beautiful women like you. Anyways, here’s the ring.”

That pretty much sum up what you had in mind? You’re right, there are lots of shallow people out there.

6

Ah marraige…the age old commitment question.

Marraige: one part loyal friend, one part someone you’d like to boink on a regular basis.

What happens if one ingrediant is missing?

Oh ya…forgot…mistresses, sneaky nights out or perhaps the ultimate escape (towards a re-run) - divorce. Right…uh huh…

Save money and remain (bf/gf) friends. It seems to keep the mystery and sex life alive.

7

No I don’t. For the first half of my life I knew her as my mom’s friend who I minded my Ps and Qs around, if I didn’t want to get sent to my room without supper. Now I know her on a first name basis. She’s an old-fashioned Christian woman who, to her knowledge and ours, had a great marriage until one day her husband packed up his things and left. I would surmise that he did keep his feelings pent up as she gained weight, and yes, she did gain a lot of weight. Several children and several decades will do that to a woman. And, like so many women of her generation, she was left in the cold by a man eager to find a younger, prettier model.

This is a common story but it isn’t an old one. Can you imagine your grandfather leaving your grandmother for some young gold digger? My own grandmother stayed with my grandfather throughout their many long years, even as he grew old, senile, and sick. The day he died was the worst day of her life, and by that time he required a lot of care. Compare that kind of loyalty to 914’s “she better not get fat and lazy” admonition to his future bride. As I have said before, I am disgusted with the modern world’s failing sense of morality. I believe that a return to our traditional Christian values -and a renewal of old laws to reflect that return- is perhaps the only way to keep our society from utterly degrading.

8

[quote=“M0NSTER”]Ah marraige…the age old commitment question.

Marraige one part loyal friend, one part someone you’d like to boink on a regular basis.

What happens if one ingrediant is missing?

Oh ya…forgot…mistresses, sneaky nights out or perhaps the ultimate escape (towards a re-run) divorce. Right…uh huh…

Save money and remain (bf/gf) friends. It seems to keep the sex life alive.[/quote]

You see games? This is a case in point.

9

[quote=“gao_bo_han”][quote=“M0NSTER”]Ah marraige…the age old commitment question.

Marraige one part loyal friend, one part someone you’d like to boink on a regular basis.

What happens if one ingrediant is missing?

Oh ya…forgot…mistresses, sneaky nights out or perhaps the ultimate escape (towards a re-run) divorce. Right…uh huh…

Save money and remain (bf/gf) friends. It seems to keep the sex life alive.[/quote]

You see games? This is a case in point.[/quote]

If you think about it, expectations made during a wedding vow/contract make people complacent these days. Contracts make everyone feel safe and in the end lead to cutting corners and laziness. No contract? Good. Work for it.

10

[quote=“M0NSTER”][quote=“gao_bo_han”][quote=“M0NSTER”]Ah marraige…the age old commitment question.

Marraige one part loyal friend, one part someone you’d like to boink on a regular basis.

What happens if one ingrediant is missing?

Oh ya…forgot…mistresses, sneaky nights out or perhaps the ultimate escape (towards a re-run) divorce. Right…uh huh…

Save money and remain (bf/gf) friends. It seems to keep the sex life alive.[/quote]

You see games? This is a case in point.[/quote]

If you think about it, expectations made during a wedding vow/contract make people complacent these days. Contracts make everyone feel safe and in the end lead to cutting corners and laziness. No contract? Good. Work for it.[/quote]

For centuries people took their wedding vows seriously, and divorce was rare, even after it was made legal.

11

[quote=“gao_bo_han”][quote=“M0NSTER”][quote=“gao_bo_han”][quote=“M0NSTER”]Ah marraige…the age old commitment question.

Marraige one part loyal friend, one part someone you’d like to boink on a regular basis.

What happens if one ingrediant is missing?

Oh ya…forgot…mistresses, sneaky nights out or perhaps the ultimate escape (towards a re-run) divorce. Right…uh huh…

Save money and remain (bf/gf) friends. It seems to keep the sex life alive.[/quote]

You see games? This is a case in point.[/quote]

If you think about it, expectations made during a wedding vow/contract make people complacent these days. Contracts make everyone feel safe and in the end lead to cutting corners and laziness. No contract? Good. Work for it.[/quote]

For centuries people took their wedding vows seriously, and divorce was rare, even after it was made legal.[/quote]

Agreed but it’s 2006 bud. Times have changed and I’m not sayin for the better.

12

Well we have a choice. We can be apathetic and cynical and continue to let our society’s morals degenerate to the point of non-existence, or we can take the initiative and institute changes to return our society to its once noble stature. Which do you choose?

I personally would like to see harsh punishments brought against men who abandon women they’ve impregnated. I want marriage to be a serious institution again, where divorce will not be granted except in the most outrageous of circumstances. I think adultery should carry a Draconian punishment. Our schools need to be reorganized to give teachers the leeway they need to discipline children effectively. Strong Judeo-Christian ethics should be taught in school. These are just a few of the many changes needed, but bottom line is that we can’t better our society unless we’re willing to enact laws to reflect our strong moral philosophy.

13

I on the other hand am happy the Middle Ages are over. Giving Christians half a chance at power, the Dark Ages show pretty well how a society will look like then, i.e. like the Muslim world today. Thanks, but no thanks - I have the impression ex-Christian societies fared a whole lot better since enlightment made them secular. Just my personal oppinion of course.

That being said and back on topic with what the OP asked … (which once was in a different thread about “honey, am I fat?”) … where is your problem though with being honest about your s.o. being fat (or not fat or whatever)? Seems to me that in the case you presented the problem was too LITTLE honesty (again) than too much.

I have serious doubts your friend would have been in the same troubles if her husband had been honest about the hole shape thing right from the start. Chances are, she’d probably married someone else instead.

14

I thinks marriage vows should be amended to say “for fatter, for thinner”. If you wouldn’t get married if that was included, then, well, maybe you shouldn’t.

15

[quote=“games”]That being said and back on topic with what the OP asked … where is your problem though with being honest about your s.o. being fat (or not fat or whatever)? Seems to me that in the case you presented the problem was too LITTLE honesty (again) than too much.

I have serious doubts your friend would have been in the same troubles if her husband had been honest about the hole shape thing right from the start. Chances are, she’d probably married someone else instead.[/quote]

Perhaps you should return home and take some courses in reading comprehension. I never said a person shouldn’t be honest. In fact I have been arguing that honesty is the best policy. Did you get that? Let me say again.

I never said anybody should lie. I have been arguing against lying.

Want me to say it a few more times, or do you got it?

I said I have a problem with people being bothered by it all…and I particularly have a problem with guys like 914 and my friend’s ex-husband who leave their spouses because of weight gain. Is that not completely ridiculous?

Now games, I know this completely blows your mind, but some people really do believe that divorce is a social evil. Sometimes I have to repeat things for you (is English your first language?), so I’ll say it again. Some people, including myself, believe that divorce is a social evil. I can tell you our family friend has been an incredibly devout Christian her whole life. She still is. Divorce was unthinkable. Absolutely unthinkable. And then one day she comes home and Mr. Husband is AWOL. Ditching him and finding someone else wasn’t an option for a pious Christian woman. Unthinkable. Not an option. But he quickly began the drumbeat for divorce, and once she saw that he truly no longer loved her, she gave in and gave him the divorce he craved. I suppose for modern, “enlightened” people such as yourself, a spouse can be thrown away as easily as an old pair of shoes. But for a person who was raised her entire life to believe that marriage is forever, being humiliated and divorced by a shitbag who wants to bang twenty year olds was quite a shock.

“Just your personal choice”, oh how clever. There was a period of time, after the Enlightenment, but before today’s state of moral chaos, where the West had the best of both worlds. Secular rationalism served as the primary philosophy of our government, while at the same time Judeo-Christian ethics pervaded common thought and belief. People got married and stayed married, families stuck together, and people had a sense of common morality and purpose. Of course I am not suggesting we return to the barbarity of the Middle Ages. I strongly support modern human rights, a concept totally alien to my Christian forefathers of that time period. However, can’t we learn from our past mistakes and hold onto what is good and right at the same time? I believe that the family is the building block of our society, and it is crumbling. Check out the stats on the number of children born out of wedlock. 76% of African American children are now born out of wedlock, and the numbers for the other races is also much higher than it was just 25 years ago. I call that a crisis that demands a solution. What do you call it?

16

And how about you? What is that lengthy detour here about Christianity and divorce all about?

Last time I checked was the OP asked about that regular question “do I look fat”(well, as said, that was once before this here turned into an entirely new topic of its own and was split off)? I mean, no problem you like to insert your (very personal) oppinion that “Chirstianity will save the world”. I however more and more fail to see the connection to this thread the longer you rail on about the lack of Chirstianity in our world.

If you are so great at reading comprehension, how about checking the OP again and perhaps also that “please stay on topic” thing and well … not quoting “oppinion” as “choice” would actually convince me your “comprehension” is worth as much as you claim.

What I truly think is, that you are just desperate to preach Christian values. Which is all nice and dandy but I can’t help it … sounds pretty much like off-topic preaching by now. From “Honey do I look fat?” to “Christianity will save us all!”. So how about a new thread about this? Maybe in the IP section, somewhere near one of the “Islam is a religion of peace!” thread?

My comments about your rather condescending arrogance of knowing and comprehending better as well as the cherrypicking of “good over bad” religious values, allegations what evil things other’s condone so you can have a cheap shot at looking pious yourself … I’d say let’s save that for a place where it belongs. (And reading gao_bo_han’s rather lame “you are either with us or a Noam Chomsky idiot” attempts at an argument, I am too happy I do not even have to participate. :laughing: )

So much only, very curious … just in case there is a Superpoweful-Imaginary-Friend how high do you think you rank on its two parameters of “pride” and “wrath”. You know? These two of seven that give you a straight ticket to Boogey-Man-Land.

So much about your “comprehension” of your own faith.

Anyone still interested in that “Honey, do I look fat” thing?

(If yes, here is the thread: http://www.forumosa.com/taiwan/viewtopic.php?t=45886)

17

I think the way my partner keeps themselves is very important, as I’m sure it is vice versa. If she utterly lets go of her weight with no concern over it and can’t handle it as an issue, that’s a bad sign for the long run… there are significant psychological/health issues involved. I don’t mind a few pounds, I find it cute and adorable… most people gain some weight when in a happy relationship… however, not being able to lift her anymore is not so cool :help: … sorry women, we men can’t help it… we’re the visual, prideful, egotistical kind of creature you know we are. Even without that in mind, I prefer the kind of woman that doesn’t mind a little gain and can joke around about it, but cares enough to watch it and do something to keep it in check rather than letting it go… in short, someone who likes to keep relatively healthy. I think being honest about it is the best policy. With my SO, I can joke around with her about it, poke her flab around and ask hey, what’s this? and still get a good laugh. This issue may seem like some sort of innocent little superficial question, but there’s a lot deeper things about personality revealed to me about my SO in the way she responds and deals with it. To put it in short, I’m happy when my SO knows how to take care of herself (but isn’t a nazi in doing it), and this is one of the qualities I love about her. It means she is disciplined, respects herself enough, and lives a good healthy lifestyle. In the end it not only means she’s a happier, energetic person with confidence, but it will also make me happier in being around her too as opposed to the fastly approaching humongo overweight category. When it comes to searching for someone, this is on my checklist. Maybe that’s just me… call me artificial… I like to be with someone that will look after themselves. So yes, I tell em straight up and see if they make the cut. :smiling_imp:

If I’m already seeing them… then joint activities can do wonderfully. But if the problem is themselves (attitude, personality, psychological)… time to cut em loose.

18

Off-Topic again

People do this towards their friends almost daily in alot of circumstances. You don’t like something they’ve said in disrespect, people you thought you could count on but in the end couldn’t, or how about simply going in different directions which causes great distance in thought.

I don’t know but a marraige certificate in alot of cases ties someone into a relationship that really has no certain future. When a man and a woman have a relationship there is no real difference between the friendship other than it’s COMMITED sexually. That goes for homosexuals alike. What would you have without the sex? Answer: A friend.

I wonder why it’s so darned hard for some people to understand this very simple point in the matter.

Marriages have always been tough on both people. When things go sour I have seen famlies where the husband and wife sleep in completely different rooms. Is this a good thing? No. Are they happy? Obviously not. What happens? All kinds of things can happen from this sort of unhappiness. The husband might run around with a mistress whom he loves but cannot leave his wife for fear of social perception. The mistress is in pain too. The wife, might find herself seeking male friends but is unhappy because she cannot share herself completely with this man due to social norms inherint in most women. A no win situation.

Marriages are a piece of paper that can, given time, lead to a terrible outcome.

Friends fuck-off on eachother all the time. We’ve all been betrayed, left behind or simply walked a different path. Why should a marriage aka sexually commited (legally binding document) relationship between two people be any different?

People can still be good parents after divorce. Depends on how much you value your child. A happy child sees his/her mother and father happy. Period.

19

BTW: come to think of it, legally binding or not, some of you have to wonder to yourselves that when you grow bored sexually. Which seems happen all too often with married couples here in Taiwan between foreigners and locals (ew)*. What the fuck does this contract (marriage) have then? It doesn’t hold any water whatsoever. It’s a farce the second you plow/boink/spooge/H.Mombo/hump/fuck someone else.

Whatever people do is their business and I’m sure many of you are already aware as to how to handle these situations without hurting anyone else along the way. But therein lays the problem. Why get married in the first place? I often wonder this myself and almost on a daily basis.

*Disclaimer - It happens all over the world regardless but it seems disproportionate between married couples I’ve met here. Especially during drunken ‘guys night out’ chats. Women, you’re just as bad so don’t point fingers. I’ve been ‘friends’ with married women and I have heard the flip side. ah…Asia. Pickafetish.

20

And how about you? What is that lengthy detour here about Christianity and divorce all about?

Last time I checked was the OP asked about that regular question “do I look fat”? I mean, no problem you like to insert your (very personal) oppinion that “Chirstianity will save the world”. I however more and more fail to see the connection to this thread the longer you rail on about the lack of Chirstianity in our world.

If you are so great at reading comprehension, how about checking the OP again and perhaps also that “please stay on topic” thing and well … not quoting “oppinion” as “choice” would actually convince me your “comprehension” is worth as much as you claim.

What I truly think is, that you are just desperate to preach Christian values. Which is all nice and dandy but I can’t help it … sounds pretty much like off-topic preaching by now. From “Honey do I look fat?” to “Christianity will save us all!”. So how about a new thread about this? Maybe in the IP section, somewhere near one of the “Islam is a religion of peace!” thread?

My comments about your rather condescending arrogance of knowing and comprehending better as well as the cherrypicking of “good over bad” religious values, allegations what evil things other’s condone so you can have a cheap shot at looking pious yourself … I’d say let’s save that for a place where it belongs.

So much only, very curious … just in case there is a Superpoweful-Imaginary-Friend how high do you think you rank on its two parameters of “pride” and “anger”. You know? These two of seven that give you a straight ticket to Boogey-Man-Land.

So much about your “comprehension” of your own faith.

Anyone still interested in that “Honey, do I look fat” thing?[/quote]

Games, it took a while to read through your disoriented, rambling reply, so perhaps I should improve my reading comprehension of broken English. Let’s play a little game, games. Try and guess which percentage of threads on Forumosa actually stay exactly “on-topic”. Maybe other people can get involved. It will be fun! I’ll start.

10%, maybe 15%.

When you’re having conversations with others, how often does the topic change? I mean just think about it for a second. You go out for coffee with your usual leftist friends, get a triple frappamochachino with cinammon, and start off the conversation with the usual homage to Noam Chomsky. I’m guessing that pretty quickly evolves into Bush bashing, the evils of Christianity, and hey! there’s not enough foam on your beverage. Then someone brings up coffee beans, which reminds you of the time you spent working for Amnesty International on the coffee plantations in Nigeria. From there it’s all about the IMF/World Bank conspiracy to oppress third world countries, and that takes you all the way back to the mercantilism and colonialism of centuries past.

If every single thread on here stayed totally and completely on topic, then Forumosa would be a pretty boring place. This thread started off about the dreaded “do you think I’m fat” question, which evolved into a broader discussion of honesty in relationships, and that evolved into the topic of divorce and the legitimate reasons or lack thereof for divorce. I think this was a fairly natural progression. Do you really insist on sticking to the “do you think I’m fat” question, or is the subject of Christian morality so abhorent to you that you just can’t bare to see it?