Foreign kids' experiences in local schools

Taiwan Parenting
41

Well, not a month into the new semester and it is starting again. My boy got in trouble today at school for something that “I” did not do. I am sending in the letters again that I sent to school last semester, the ones saying that I cannot read Chinese and that they need to either translate the important parts to English or write some easy notes in BPMF or the characters that my boy can already read so that he can come home and translate for me what I need to do, and also the letter saying that she cannot punish my boy for something that I didn’t do and that if they don’t beleive him, like he is just using my non-Chinese for an excuse, that they should call me on the phone to clarify things.

He has a Taiwanese English teacher every Wednesday and I have spoken to her before so it isn’t impossible, but then again, she was the one who gave me the advise to just change schools to stop my boy being bullied…

He is in Grade 2 now and he has the same teacher as he did in Grade 1, so she should know better. And just to think at my work now that they are being so petty that I am being spell checked and grammar checked by my boss when writing English comments in the kiddies’ communication books to parents who can’t say or read a word of English…

Frustrating…

42

Isnt there a chinese reading person you know who can help you translate these notes from teachers. If not ? Maybe see if you can find someone? Or post those notes on the net and someone can translate? You could take a digital picture of the note and post the pic here and someone can read it?

Sorry I cant help because I dont read or write a single word of Mandarin . But iv had people who could when I was in Taiwan.

43

Great tip, I have and I do, but if I don’t get it done in time and then my boy is in trouble and misses out on something, I am not happy. Some will probably just say that is my fault for not being quick enough, but I don’t want to be running around all the time bothering my friends. It’s not their job.

My boy got in trouble today as I hadn’t paid the fees yet. wow, only NT$2300. I wrote a note saying they won’t get the fees now until they write some info in English about the fees and I told them that my boy has every right to be a that school as he is a Taiwanese Citizen with a TW ID No. and passport. Yes, I am rude, but polite doesn’t seem to work, maybe rude won’t either… but I am not happy again, so I am being expressive…

44

You are probably better off playing by their rules. Not wanting to pay until you get a note in english is not going to make your kid any more popular with the staff there.

Get a digital camera , take pics of the notes soon as you get them. Post it here, I think someone will be able to help pretty fast.

45

What kind of trouble did he get from the teacher?

46

Humiliation, kept inside, not allowed to play. As if a 7 y/o can understand why?

47

Unfortunately those fees are mandatory and the teachers are under a lot of pressure to collect them.

I’d also strongly suggest that you go to the school and talk to the teacher in person rather than sending notes. And buy a scanner and post the notes on Forumosa. Or perhaps we can identify a few Forumosans who you could email the scans on a list so that if one of us can’t get to it right away, another one could. I for one would be more than happy to translate a few notes for you.

48

As a foreign father with 2 kids in local schools, I understand that you are unhappy Sean.

However, it would be too much to expect that they make special accomodations for you. After all, they made the system for kids and parent expected to be fluent in Chinese. Moreover, most teachers here are not that great english speakers or writers.

I would get help to deal with all the notes from the school. I read Chinese so I can handle most, and I have people around me who can help out with the rest. it all helps.

Mandatory things like fees etc. no I would never stop paying them until they are explained in English.It’s no secret that they are coming, and you are expected to pay, unless very dire straits stop you from doing so. (You have to document this)

Try to apply for a fee refund, I did that, and after the semester I got an envelope with most of the money back. Note that apart from poverty etc. one reason for getting the refund is is a parent is a foreigner. I got NT$1,600 back last time.

Showing interest in your kid’s school is also a good thing, I try to show up and ask how things are on a monthly basis. I try to be nice to the teachers, as I don’t want them to take it out on my kids.

Also, my youngest daughter who just started in 3rd grade was being picked on by a couble of boys from her new class. As she was complaining a fair bit, I contacted the teacher, who told me that he was on it, and that we were not the first bringing it to his attention. I don’t think that inaction is on the menu there.

49

Thanks for all your comments, but you know, this sounds like 30 odd years ago when I was a kid at school in Australia when we only had one Chinese kid at school and of course his name was “chonga” or something like that. Non white “Australian” were not well accepted back when I was a kid when I look back at that time. Now kids are asked if another language other than English is spoken at home as the first language and arrangements made for that. I wonder how thoswe changes came about. Maybe someone spoke up and protested…

Sure we will get the old saying that this is Taiwan, but you know English is a compulsory subject from Grade 1 and look at all the after school English learning in this country and well, I am here teaching it too. Makes ya kind of ask what are they learning it for. I have mentioned this before, but the Chinese school English Teacher was quick to call me after my boy busted up a Grade 3 kid’s nose who was picking on him… Her English was just fine.

Fees maybe mandatory and yes, I knew they were coming, this is his third semester, and I have no problem paying that, he’s not going to TAS after all. NT$2925. But if they are going to humiliate him and punish him because his dad can’t read Chinese, well some action needs to be taken and that little protest is the start, maybe the next step is I will have a Chinese speaking friend accompany me to the principal’s office to explain the situation.And I know some will say that that won’t be any use for a foreigner to complain, just as it is said in all the traffic discussion on this forum. But it might just do something.

Thanks for all the offers for the translations. I do have a friend who does translate the stuff. She did about 10 letters on Sunday, that is when I discovered the fees were overdue. The bill was dated 9/6 and was due 9/14. A week and one day to pay. I get more time to pay on my electricity and phone bills, even traffic tickets… I knew what the letter was and I asked my friend, so can I pay this at 7/11 or does it have to go to a bank or to school. She said oh, 7/11, wait, no, it’s overdue. You have to go to a bank, but only 2 banks will accept it. So I said what, I only got it a short time ago. And then my boy comes home from school on Tuesday 9/23 blaming me for him getting in trouble. You get more time than that before your phone or electricity is cut off… so, I am a little annoyed about this, especially as I have spoken to the teacher about this before. We also discussed about using the babelfish program to translate stuff for each other, it may not be perfect, but it will get the gist of any information across. She did this maybe 3 times. If it is too much to ask, well I guess her and I, bith being teacher’s have different standards in getting information across to parents. I know what I do at my job to communicate with parents in Chinese.

I have previously been to the school to speak with her and my Chinese is better than her English, and my Chinese in minimal, so that isn’t really any use unless someone went with me. I kind of laugh thinking to myself, that if his mom was still around and some of this crap happened, she would be down the school giving them a serving, she had an evil temper, but then if she was still around, I wouldn’t have these problems.

I have also tried to show interest in my boy’s schooling and stuff, but I have been really annoyed when I have found out that I have missed something that all the other parents have attended as I was not made aware of it. Maybe if they really wanted me to attend parent/teacher nights, they would somehow let me know about them.

So, end results, yes, I will pay the fees, I know I have to, but they can wait and as school is also compulsary, he must attend, and if they make trouble for him, well I will decide what course of action to take then. And thanks for all the translation help offers. You guys helped me find solutions, one reason for this forum and posting here. I was though kind of hoping for a little more support in my protest mode as I am kind of tired of just having to take S@#$ because this is Taiwan and I am a foreigner. I thought maybe someone has swayed a school into being foreigner friendly.

50

Try a little mind over matter. Maybe a crazy idea, but how about stop thinking of yourself as Foreign. IN the sense that your kid is a TAiwanese passport holding person born and being raised in Taiwan. And you are NOT a tourist. And foreigners have been part of the landscape in Taiwan for decades upon decades. Think of yourself as a resident, even as a Taiwanese. So firstly stop being different. Find out what needs to get done and do it. Nurture more locals as friends. They will be invaluable to go down to the school with you and sort things out. The only thing different between you and Joe Taiwan is that your Mandarin is not up to scratch yet. But start thinking like JOe Taiwan.

Get my drift?

I am half TAiwanese and half American. I can think like a Taiwanese or like an American. Some days I feel im Taiwanese, others I feel im American.

Think like you are a bonafide resident of Taiwan now. You are not a tourist. You are just like the other parents with kids in that school. Your only handicap is that you dont speaka da language yet. Find ways to overcome that handicap .

51

Was your child punished more harshly than the school rules would punish a Taiwanese child under the same circumstances? If so, there’s a problem with the school or the teacher that should be addressed.

If not, how you have had to take any shit in this case because you are a foreigner? Where is the discrimination?

Either way, it’s your job to pay the fees and to do so on time. Parents with much less money than you have do. Delaying any more won’t help your case. You probably already have a repuation – fair or not – as a troublesome parent that teachers don’t want to deal with. Do you really want to strengthen that?

Similarly, it’s not the job of teachers to write you in English.

52

This is a funny old place, this Forum I mean. I share my story, and thanks to all the replies and kind offers to translate. That is a solution, but not the solution. I do have a good friend who does help me, but I don’t see her everyday. I was hoping that someone may have been there and done that and may have been able to share how they got their kid’s school to be more helpful and supportive to one of their students. But it did end up like other threads where I have read things with people having problems. Like a thread I joined once by a guy who was sick of the traffic and he vented and he was laughed off the forum and as I agreed with what he was saying, I was just called “a tool who complains about the traffic, but still rides a bike.” and then told to sell my bike. Here I am just told by some, “to pay”. Paying is not the problem… It is quite amusing to see some get defensive about this place that we all choose to live in, sometimes it is like “bag the foreigner who dares to quetion things” and it can be worse when you cross a mod… I won’t add anymore here after this post, but if you have anything positive to share with me to help my school in helping me and my boy, you are welcome to PM me…

Was your child punished more harshly than the school rules would punish a Taiwanese child under the same circumstances? If so, there’s a problem with the school or the teacher that should be addressed.

If not, how you have had to take any shit in this case because you are a foreigner? Where is the discrimination? [/quote]
I guess it doesn’t matter then if I am a foreigner or not, should a 7 year old child be punished because their parent didn’t do something? Gees I am glad they don’t do corporal punishment anymore. But I guess it is still OK to get a kid out in front of the class and ask him questions about the situation, one that a 7 year old foreign or Taiwanese would not understand about why the fees hadn’t been paid, and then yell at him and tell him that he can’t go play with his friends because of it… But as people say this is Taiwan, maybe you can. I had a good friend once who was threatened with violence because her mom owed hundreds of thousands of dollars on her credit cards. The bank got debt collectors to tell my friend to pay her mom’s bills or else, but that is another story… or is it…

How do you know delaying won’t help. Sometimes you got to stand up for what you believe and I feel my options of protest are pretty limited. Good if I have a reputation, you know from what I have noticed here in Taiwan in the schools where I have worked, it is the troublesome parents that get the things they want. I have dealt with many troublesome parents, but maybe they are just being actively assertive in getting the things they want, or need as in my case. It even works in our countries, vocal minorities get what they want.

Similarly, it’s not the job of teachers to write you in English.[/quote]
Well I am just going to have to disagree with you there. He is her student in her class. She has a responsibility to him. I am a teacher and I know I go the extra mile for parents and students when needed, sometimes it maybe inconvenient, but that is just what I feel is my responsibility as a teacher. Maybe I have different standards of what a teacher should do for their students, but if she can’t take a bit of time to make sure one of here students can reach their full potential, then they are not a very good teacher. Lucky my boy doesn’t have a learning disability.

[quote=“Tommy”]Try a little mind over matter. Maybe a crazy idea, but how about stop thinking of yourself as Foreign. IN the sense that your kid is a Taiwanese passport holding person born and being raised in Taiwan. And you are NOT a tourist. And foreigners have been part of the landscape in Taiwan for decades upon decades. Think of yourself as a resident, even as a Taiwanese. So firstly stop being different. Find out what needs to get done and do it. Nurture more locals as friends. They will be invaluable to go down to the school with you and sort things out. The only thing different between you and Joe Taiwan is that your Mandarin is not up to scratch yet. But start thinking like JOe Taiwan.

Get my drift?

I am half Taiwanese and half American. I can think like a Taiwanese or like an American. Some days I feel im Taiwanese, others I feel im American.

Think like you are a bonafide resident of Taiwan now. You are not a tourist. You are just like the other parents with kids in that school. Your only handicap is that you dont speaka da language yet. Find ways to overcome that handicap .[/quote]
Thanks Tommy, I have read lots of your imput to many situations here on Forumosa. The idea of stopping to think I am foreign is very idealistic. Sure I do many things everyday to try and assimilate into this culture, but this culture also points out to you everyday that you are foreign. It is made known that you are different, not a Taiwanese in things nearly everyday. Like my mate trying to return something to a 3C store last week and being told he can only have a refund if he has a Taiwanese ID no. ARC unacceptable, but if he got a friend with a TW ID no, that would be OK. But like to me, I can see the Taiwanese in my boy but he get’s called “big nose” in Taiwanese everyday at school as he tells me and I get called “Weiguo BaBa” when I take my boy to school. It is kind of strange as I thought my boy’s nose looked like his TW mom’s cute nose, not big at all.

So, anyway after sending in my letters to school today, I will post an email below that I recieved from my boy’s teacher concerninig one question I asked… hmmm on the very same day I wrote to her. You can see the quality of her written English there. Maybe she used the babelfish website, I don’t think so as that would give the correct spellings of words. But she responded almost immediately, so I feel my actions have worked, to a degree anyway:

[quote] Dear David
I’m pleased that you’ll be having a family renuin
the onset of nest year.
There’s no prlblem with Sean to take a leave for a while.
The school will begin around February 11th ,2009. For this semester,
it’s going to end January 20th.
No worries about missing some school days. Sean is smart, he can
catch up in no time.
Have a nice trip
teach
September,24,2008[/quote]
Thanks all.
:discodance:

53

Taipeisean,

I wanted to answer your original question, I see you are not going to post here again, but I wanted to share my recent experience with a local public school in Muzha.

When I chose this school, people around told me to choose the other, “Better” one, not this one that is not one of the top academically. I am SO glad I chose the one I did.

The teachers and staff are so helpful and supportive of my son, helping him adjust and helping me too. The first days, he got teased a bit and the teachers told me they were using group time to educate the kids that lots of people in Taiwan have all kinds of backgrounds, and that there are all kinds of people in the world. The teasing about being foreign/mixed has stopped, and he has a lot of friends now. (We also taught him to say to kids, “OK, if you say I am (whatever), then I am,” and then walk away. He did that once to the “tough boys” in his class and now they are all his mates.)

I have to write in the communication book every day, and I have been typing (bad) Chinese in it, but the teachers told me to write English, they can at least practice their English as they don’t get so many opportunities. They also make sure I understand all the messages that come back home, including all the information about rebates on fees and other govt stuff.

At the Parents’ Meeting, the teachers of the school made a point of explaining the push of using the Mother Tongue at home, and how the Education Dept is putting emphasis on this now, including supporting families with non-Taiwanese parents.

The school environment is great, too, big old trees, lots of outside time, soccer fields, water play area, sandpit, picnic areas, three climbing frame areas… birds and dragonflies and frogs.

So, I don’t think all schools are like the one your son is in, and if you can’t research other schools in the area, I hope you can find a teacher that will help you find a more comfortable relationship between school and home in the near future. In the meantime, have you considered contacting the organisation in your area that supports “foreign spouses”? I know they are really aimed at South-East-Asian spouses, but the one in my area keeps asking me to use their services.

54

Sorry for your trouble, dude, in all seriousness, I am constantly in awe and deepest admiration over the burden that you’ve shouldered and enormous energy you devote to this challenge.
Fortunately, my wife is still around (touch wood) so I don’t have to worry about this problem, but even so, whilst the chieflette is the only “white-looking” kid in her huge school, I guess there are quite a few kids whose Mas are MOB, because the school sends home, like twice a year, a questionnaire from the gov’t (in English) asking in great detail about

  1. If the school provides sufficient support for me, as a “foreign” parent, how they can improve, and any other general suggestions, AND
    B. How I’m doing in general as a foreigner in Taipei, am I having any problems with which I need help etc.
    If you can fuckin feature that!
    So I guess it varies pretty wildly with where you are.
    Good luck, you’re doing fine.
    Semper fortis, semper veritas.

Oh yeah, the form.
Last time I filled it out with

“Dear Government,
Yes, as a matter of fact, there are some problems, and I’d really appreciate your assistance.
One, there’s no fucking Cheez Whiz ANYWHERE.
Two, there aren’t halfway decent ribs in the whole GD country, and
Three, that stupid fuckin haircut EVERY SINGLE fuckin high school boy in town has is really smoking my fuckin bacon already.
Thanks for your help.
Your Pal,
the chief”

I’ll let you know what happens.

55

TaipeiSean,
I just want to add that you are doing a great job. Keep it up.

My Chinese is crap. Thankfully, I’ve got a wife and some cool in-laws that make my life easier.

My two girls are first and third grade and fit in nicely with their classmates.

I don’t (and more importantly, THEY don’t) worry when some kid calls them Wai-gwo-ren. I just explain matter-of factly, “I am wai-gwo-ren; I come from . . . My wife is Tai-wan-ren (friendly smile).”

Their teachers are helpful, but I don’t know how amenable they’d be to writing anything in English. If I were you, I’d give the nicest, reddest apple to her teacher for the note in English. Smile and say that it’s traditional in the west to give apples to the teachers you really like.

I find that Taiwanese can Always appreciate good fruit.

Maybe an apple a week is in order for “service above and beyond the call of duty.” Kindergarten, preschool and elementary school teachers have their hands full. Try to keep smiling, and keep the thanks coming when dealing with these underappreciated workers.

My first grader can’t really figure out/remember her homework, much less the special notices. However, once they reach third grade, they are able to get the gist of most notices and translate them for you.

So, try apples. The best NT$30 you’ll ever spend.