CTI News continued news coverage. 03-28-2010.
You might of had me with the argument that you get in an accident have a moment of panic and flee the scene. I also agree that while you can say that nobody knows what they would do in the heat of the moment what I can say is this. If I was in this situation and left the scene in a panic I know for damn certain I would be turning myself in and taking responsibility once the initial panic subsided. What this guy DID do was cold and calculating. He attempted to destroy evidence of his involvment and get out of the country. I also don’t buy the argument that a prexisting ticket is indication that he didn’t intend to flee. One could argue that it may have been an incentive to try to avoid responsibility for long enough to make it to the departure date.
If it turns out that the scooter driver, who I don’t really belive was the sole provider for the family, was at fault or partly so, it just makes this guys actions that much more tragic for him. By trying to destroy the evidence and get away with this he has ensured himself a hell of a lot more trouble.
I admire your certitude.
But it’s not a question of panic causing us to act in a way we normally wouldn’t, but even more fundamentally, under extreme panic and duress, we do not think clearly. Your certitude is with a clear mind, but under similar circumstances, I wonder how clearly you would be thinking.[/quote]
you are right. I will tell you an example where I witnessed this no so long ago. In the UK I was walking towards the UEA gym (the old one) at about 10 am in the morning. This friend of mine was walking ahead. Now this friend of mine was a very religious man that had done a lot for charity and I knew this not cause he boasted about it but rather I was his friend so just knew it. There was a “worker” walking down these steep stairs to his left. Both him and the worker were around 100-200 metres or so in front. Anyway the worker suddenly tripped fell down the steps and landed face first on the pavement, out cold! My friend had not seen me behind and just froze. I then could not believe my eyes when I saw him walking away at a very fast pace in the opposite direction. Anyways i go over call the 999 and put my coat over the guy and do basic first aid to my limited ability. The worker was rushed to hospitable but ok. There were about 4 other people at that time of day who just stood there shocked and staring but silent. :eh:
Anyway I was a little angry and told him I saw him walk away. Well he was really confused and was very shocked by his own actions. So you are right the body behaves strangely when under stress and mental over load like that too. I hope that does not happen to me but it might I concede that.
Anyways I agree with G-man that he should of turned himself in as if he has money as everyone is saying then why not help the family out as you killed someone that perhaps the family are relying on. You can’t bring or help the victim their life is over but u can at least do your very best to make amends anyway you can. he took another human life not money or property a life and a human one. Whether accidentally or not this is really screwed up.
Presumably the above video shows the media tormenting the widow and her parents. Lovely.
Regarding hit-and-run, as I said, I would hope if I were placed in such a situation I wouldn’t flee but would have the strength and courage to deal with it honestly, honorably and legally, but I honestly can’t say what I’d do in such an instant of shock, horror and crisis.
However, IF the facts are as alleged, then the tragedy wasn’t caused by a momentary lapse but due to the inexcusable decision to drive drunk. We’ve discussed too many local deaths and disasters allegedly involving drunk driving.
Hopefully most of us have learned by now and don’t drive drunk. I know I haven’t for over a decade.
“Older sister”, but from what I could make out, it’s not clear if she is a blood relation or a cousin of some sort.
There seems to be a lot of speculative information in this whole thing. The fact that the media are using photos of two different men being the most obvious! I hope the whole thing gets cleared up for Zain’s sake. As sandman says, it doesn’t sound like the Zain that I know either.
So you paralyse a cat and you are the biggest cnut on earth. You get drunk and kill someone in your car and you run away like an arsehole and your actions are somewhat justifiable, and the dead persons choice of head gear is questioned?
Have I got this right? You couldn’t make this shit up!
ah, well, ‘all are equal, but some are more equal than others’ says Napoleon the pig (animal farm).
[quote=“TomHill”]So you paralyse a cat and you are the biggest cnut on earth. You get drunk and kill someone in your car and you run away like an arsehole and your actions are somewhat justifiable, and the dead persons choice of head gear is questioned?
Have I got this right?[/quote]
No.
Doesn’t seem to be stopping you.
[quote=“Belgian Pie”]I’m not going to speak in favor of the driver but there are a few things to consider, yes he was drunk, maybe he was driving … but, did you ever think about the victim? What was the cause of death, head injury? Was he/she wearing a helmet, was it fastened … having seen paper delivery people drive around the street, they just weave in and out from parked cars without even watching traffic … so, it should be considered that the victim himself caused the accident … Does it matter? Yes, it does.
The driver, drunk or not could have been surprised by a scooter driver just changing lanes without warning … yes, drunk driving is an offense, but in this case it’s not proven that he was driving … but fleeing the scene is not to be condoned.[/quote]
No, Tom Hills got it right it’s right here Maoman (see above). Clearly BP is questioning the actions of victim (with absolutly no basis I might add) as if this would somehow be a mitigating factor. Forget the drunk driving, It will be difficult to ever know how drunk the guy was or if he was infact driving. What we know is that the guy fled the scene and there is strong indication that he attempted to destroy evidence of his involvement in the incident. Tom Hill is also correct in reference to the case of the cat killer which sparked pages of posts calling for the minister to be thrown in jail, deported, fired and basically destroyed. While here we are urged not to jump to conclusions. No talk of having the guy if he’s guilty spend the rest of his life rotting in Jail. I guess the minister down south just didn’t have the right friends.
[quote=“TomHill”]So you paralyse a cat and you are the biggest cunt on earth. You get drunk and kill someone in your car and you run away like an arsehole and your actions are somewhat justifiable, and the dead persons choice of head gear is questioned?
Have I got this right? You couldn’t make this shit up![/quote]
Yes you do have it right.
No proof yet that he was driving … just that he/she wanted to get rid of the car … and I’m not justifying the action of the driver. But some questions have to be answered before anyone knows who is at fault.
I can just jump out on the street, change lanes with my scooter without proper use of attributes on the vehicle … and anyone, drunk or not could hit me and kill me … on my way to work and back home, a 2 minute scooter ride I can get accidents anytime, with cunts (scooters and cars) that think they own the street … or just don’t know how to follow traffic rules, or just don’t give a shit …
Yes, I question the head gear … could be the cause of mortal head trauma … no proof tho …
I question the driving style too …
[quote=“Gman”]
No, Tom Hills got it right it’s right here Maoman (see above). Clearly BP is questioning the actions of victim (with absolutly no basis I might add) as if this would somehow be a mitigating factor. Forget the drunk driving, It will be difficult to ever know how drunk the guy was or if he was infact driving. What we know is that the guy fled the scene and there is strong indication that he attempted to destroy evidence of his involvement in the incident. Tom Hill is also correct in reference to the case of the cat killer which sparked pages of posts calling for the minister to be thrown in jail, deported, fired and basically destroyed. While here we are urged not to jump to conclusions. No talk of having the guy if he’s guilty spend the rest of his life rotting in Jail. I guess the minister down south just didn’t have the right friends.[/quote]
Theres two issues here, the first is internet crucification, name and shaming, I really dislike this use of a forum, be it a guy taking pot shots at cats, someone who robbed a girl he slept with, a kindie teacher who rats on his colleague or in this case, a terrible tragedy that my heart obviously goes out to the victims family, and the consequences which this individual face are much more dire than any of the above mentioned.
In such light, and given the gravity of the situation that this individual if facing, that people are moderating there comments, (when contrasted to a cat killer) is a good thing. The second is, the facts have yet to be established, if I understand the story right, it seems hes pleading what will soon become know as the foreigners defense, i.e. too drunk to remember, which was also used a while back by another foreigner. I’m sure after a few days, and after the press, or police and whoever ask around a clearer picture will appear, so whats the rush, innocent till proven guilty and all that.
Yes. I know the man well. He’s in for a world of trouble if he’s responsible for this accident.[/quote]
Well as he is a friend of many people on this forum I should not of called the guy a wanker as it may cause offense and was wrong to say that at a time like this.
I retract and apologize for that.
@MT I am 99% certain I would NOT run from an accident but yeah you are right panic can make people act in way we normally would not I agree.[/quote]
Whether he has friends or not here doesn’t mean you can’t call him a wanker. What’s the self-censorship about?
What’s the foreigners defense comment about, I don’t want any ‘foreigner’s defense’ associated with me!
Yes. I know the man well. He’s in for a world of trouble if he’s responsible for this accident.[/quote]
Well as he is a friend of many people on this forum I should not of called the guy a wanker as it may cause offense and was wrong to say that at a time like this.
I retract and apologize for that.
@MT I am 99% certain I would NOT run from an accident but yeah you are right panic can make people act in way we normally would not I agree.[/quote]
Whether he has friends or not here doesn’t mean you can’t call him a wanker. What’s the self-censorship about?
What’s the foreigners defense comment about, I don’t want any ‘foreigner’s defense’ associated with me![/quote]
ok read the bit about the “wanker” comment
but foreigners defense? u lost me?
Using such a thing as ‘foreigner’s defense’ will put us under suspicion in eyes of local population and legal circles…doesn’t sound good to me.
[quote=“Maoman”][quote=“TomHill”]So you paralyse a cat and you are the biggest cnut on earth. You get drunk and kill someone in your car and you run away like an arsehole and your actions are somewhat justifiable, and the dead persons choice of head gear is questioned?
Have I got this right?[/quote]
No.
Doesn’t seem to be stopping you.[/quote]
Oh I don’t know who to believe!
What time did the accident happen?
Who phoned the ambulance?
There is no way to justify driving drunk and there is no way to justify leaving the scene of an accident. I don’t believe a sane person would be panicked enough to lose the notion of what’s right and wrong. Especially when someone is lying on the ground after a nasty collision. If someone has the presence of mind to leave the scene, it usually says a lot.
That’s kind of the point, isn’t it? Just because one guy asks about the victim, somebody else says the driver is a nice guy, and a third person says, “Well, at least he didn’t shoot at any cats with a BB gun”, you think you’ve struck upon some kind of general truth? A consensus that everybody is nodding their heads to, and going “ayep, that’s exactly what I’m thinking”? Most people here have expressed dismay that this happened. When the truth outs, and it will, you can be sure that the appropriate expressions of disgust will also find their way to the boards. Until then, it’s all just speculation based on what we’re hearing from the local media. My three-year old presents information more reliably than they do, so I wouldn’t put too much stock into their reports, nor to any reactions to it.
I’m not defending anyone, nor accusing … I’m questioning …
My MIL got killed by a probable DUI driver a few years ago (4:30AM), did the press jump on it as flies on a pile of poop … no, because it was just an old lady that got killed by a piss poor guy, living of binlang and Whisby … he wasn’t even insured … did the family get a penny? No. He got jail time … and it was a hit&run … they found the guy a few days later thanks to the cameras hanging around here … thankfully.
My MIL was just walking alongside the street … going through her daily routine.
My BIL got killed on his scooter, mid day, crossing an intersection … I have no idea if the driver of the other vehicle was drunk or not … the driver didn’t run because it was too busy on the street … I believe they said he was driving a BMW … speeding?
In time all the facts will be established and the guilty will be punished … maybe
Everyday in Taiwan there is a DUI hit&run somewhere … it doesn’t even make the news …
When driving from here to Taipei there is fat chance that I cross an accident scene, sometimes fatal … should I feel sorrow … it brings me back to reality, that Taiwan’s roads are very dangerous … and my wife’s probably right, she doesn’t want me driving a scooter into Taipei …
So, should we feel sorrow for the scooter driver that got killed by a ‘foreigner’ … you can feel sorrow for all people getting killed in wars, lack of food and water … it’ll make your life pretty hard I guess …
[quote=“Belgian Pie”]I’m not defending anyone, nor accusing … I’m questioning …
My MIL got killed by a probable DUI driver a few years ago (4:30AM), did the press jump on it as flies on a pile of poop … no, because it was just an old lady that got killed by a piss poor guy, living of binlang and Whisby … he wasn’t even insured … did the family get a penny? No. He got jail time … and it was a hit&run … they found the guy a few days later thanks to the cameras hanging around here … thankfully.
My MIL was just walking alongside the street … going through her daily routine.
My BIL got killed on his scooter, mid day, crossing an intersection … I have no idea if the driver of the other vehicle was drunk or not … the driver didn’t run because it was too busy on the street … I believe they said he was driving a BMW … speeding?
In time all the facts will be established and the guilty will be punished … maybe
Everyday in Taiwan there is a DUI hit&run somewhere … it doesn’t even make the news …
When driving from here to Taipei there is fat chance that I cross an accident scene, sometimes fatal … should I feel sorrow … it brings me back to reality, that Taiwan’s roads are very dangerous … and my wife’s probably right, she doesn’t want me driving a scooter into Taipei …
So, should we feel sorrow for the scooter driver that got killed by a ‘foreigner’ … you can feel sorrow for all people getting killed in wars, lack of food and water … it’ll make your life pretty hard I guess …[/quote]
That doesn’t quite add up here. This story was on the news BEFORE they knew who hit him. Or maybe they knew and were just setting it up. I wouldn’t put ANYTHING past them.