Gangsters

What do the gangsters in Taipei look like? Anything like the bad guys in Hou Hsiao Hsien’s “Goodbye South Goodbye?”

Also, what kind of music do they listen to? It seems like there’s alot of advice on this forum to stay away from places that play “the music gangsters like,” so I’m curious to know what that music is.

gangsters are everywhere…even producing hou hsiao hsien’s movies.

True. Actually, Tapei city (the nicer parts of it) seem fairly gangster free. But MOST of this island has very obvious gangster types lurking about everywhere. Go do Hsinchu (I’m not surprised to hear about the P&G event), Chung-li, Taichung (huge sex industry), Hsi-luo (the supposed capital of gangsterism in TW), and even Tainan and Kaohsiung and you see them in their black BMW’s, chewing betel nuts, and yelling at their mini-skirted ho’s.

It’s funny… in the West (and in California especially) Chinese/Taiwanese are stereotyped as small, nerdy guys with big glasses and a penchant for competing in Calculus competitions. But upon arriving in TW, I’ve seen more shady characters, reprobates and ‘liu mang’ than geeks.

Question: there’s this autobody shop near my house that blasts techno music or bad techno remakes of 80s fare all day long. I’m not a fan, so therefore I don’t enjoy listening to it. Thing is, I also avoid walking past this shop if I can because I associate that kind of music with small-time “gangsters” here in Taiwan.

Is there a correlation with said type of music and small-time gangster boys? Is my intuition correct?

I’ve also heard SanChong (in Taipei County) has a good size gangster presence

Every city I’ve been to the car wash plays techno loud “techno” music

Was once walking down San He Rd in San Chong and saw three thugs brandishing pistols run from their car up the stairs of an apartment building. Didn’t hang around to find out what happened next! :astonished:

CK

When I was living in San Chung I saw a whole lot of gangsters every day.

I once saw ten of them beating the shit out of one guy. They kept throwing those Taiwan beer tall boy bottles at this guys head. Over and over again.

One time, a taxi driver almost hit me while I was walking down the road. I was having a ‘fuck Taiwan’ day, and flipped the guy off. He stopped the car, grabbed something under the passenger seat and started to get out. I’m not sure if was a gangster or not, but what I am sure of, is that I can run pretty fast when i’m scared shitless.

Also, there is a car wash right next to my house here in Hualien that blasts that techno crap. They definitely aren’t gangsters. I think that kind of music is just popular here.

[quote=“FUSION”]
It’s funny… in the West (and in California especially) Chinese/Taiwanese are stereotyped as small, nerdy guys with big glasses and a penchant for competing in Calculus competitions. But upon arriving in TW, I’ve seen more shady characters, reprobates and ‘liu mang’ than geeks.[/quote]

That’s probably also a function of the Taiwanese that have the means to immigrate to the US being the type that value education and hard work as a means to betterment of their status/situation. Either that, or people with “old money”, and thus little incentive to become gangsters.

My NT$2.

There are gangsters/scumgbags everywhere and not just in Taiwan

The variety and the degree to which they are pond scum depends on a number of factors

How inbred they are
How much money they have through murder extortion etc
How bad their dress sense is
How voilent they are
How insecure they are and so like beating people to prove how tough they are to their girlfriends ( who probaily work in some dirty KTV)
Their preferred weapon machete, gun, 20 buddies or broken bottle

Of course they all want to climb up the pond scum ladder and this is achieved through

Making your self look richer by buying a BMW
Trying to appear more ruthless and tougher as the next scumbag by preying on more people else being more violent
Attempting to remove another scumbag or getting the other scumbag to work under you

[quote=“Ben”][quote=“FUSION”]
It’s funny… in the West (and in California especially) Chinese/Taiwanese are stereotyped as small, nerdy guys with big glasses and a penchant for competing in Calculus competitions. But upon arriving in TW, I’ve seen more shady characters, reprobates and ‘liu mang’ than geeks.[/quote]

That’s probably also a function of the Taiwanese that have the means to immigrate to the US being the type that value education and hard work as a means to betterment of their status/situation. Either that, or people with “old money”, and thus little incentive to become gangsters.

My NT$2.[/quote]

The big brothers of the Taiwanese gangster world value education - some even attended Harvard or other prestigious institutions. The fact that some guy living in your suburb looks “nerdy” doesn’t mean he didn’t or isn’t still putting money on the street back in Taiwan. You really shouldn’t judge a book …

In Taiwan, gangsters seem to be more out in the open and not worried about getting caught by police.

If you want to see gangsters, funerals are the place to go. When a gangster’s mother dies, dozens of lads in black show up at the funeral, the name of their gang on their T-shirts and on their cars, usually followed by the word “enterprise.”

People with either dyed hair or crew cuts standing around the entrance of a KTV are another good pointer.

Most of the time, they will leave foreigners alone. They’re only interested in collecting protection money from stallkeepers and debts from gamblers.
Don’t worry, just walk past without looking.

I’m going to start a gang in Taiwan called “The Starship”. Who wants to join? :laughing:

gangsters in Taiwan are not just the thugs you see, but business men and professionals. The mafia are composed mainly of China born Taiwanese and their offspring who banded together after the ROC arrived to protect each other. They run guns, drugs, prostitutes and also legitimate businesses. The only major mafia type gang that is comprised of ethnic Taiwanese is the Tian Dao Meng, formed at Green Island following Operation Thunderbolt, a police scheme to round up gang bosses and throw them away for a few years. The Taiwanese got sick of the arrogance of the China born groups and formed their own mafia headed by Luo Fu Zhu (KMT politician).
Most groups use illegal means to gain enough liquid assets to invest in legitimate companies, like construction or taxi companies. Politics is one way gangs protect their rackets and their businesses.
Then there’s the Jiao Tou, local Taiwanese who run betel nut stalls, underground banks and prostitution rings, but mainly make money by offering protection from “violence”.
When the government promotes a construction project, it is an offering to the gangs for support. With the construction market cornered by gangster who chase out the competition, bidrigging is rampant. Often, gangs will cooperate is fixing a government bid, over inflate it without competition, and then split the proceeds with the next contract going to another gang.
taipei is the least corrupt city, followed by Taichung and kaoshiung. Analysts with the CIB attribute the lower numbers to education and a population from all over. The most corrupt town is Er Lin, run by the Hsiao family.
Food for thought.

Fun Fact on Gangster Funerals:

Big black cars are RENTALS if the license plates begin with two of the same letter in a row (AA, BB, etc.)

We ran into a big-time gangster funeral in Beitou a few years back and I was amazed to find that most of the cars were rentals. Maybe the gangster business wasn’t so great last year?? :laughing:

There must have been 150 youngsters in black shirts hanging around the MRT stop waiting for “the word” to join the procession. My then-coworker chatted with them and they all gathered round to admire his (very admirable) tattoos. :astonished:

The gangsters that I know, or who have met, are/have been very polite.

Interesting info, Maowang. May I ask (and I am making broad statements here): isn’t the KMT usually seen as the party of “China born groups” ? So, why would a KMT politician head up a “Taiwanese” mafia?

Genuine question, and please forgive my for my lack of knowledge about politics in Taiwan. For example, I know that Lee Tung-hui was once a member of the KMT but now is not–he certainly has strong views about being Taiwanese and Taiwan independence.

Also, does the DPP have any connection with “gangsters” or the “mafia” ?

[quote]
Taipei is the least corrupt city, followed by Taichung (Taizhong) and Kaoshiung (Gaoxiong). Analysts with the CIB attribute the lower numbers to education and a population from all over. The most corrupt town is Er Lin, run by the Hsiao family. [/quote]

Doesn’t this broadly follow the way Taiwan votes, with the KMT stronger in the north and the DPP stronger in the south? The south has more gangsters, according to the above, and more DPP support. Is there a connection?

Just curious, and trying to understand something I don’t know much about.

Thanks.

The word “gangster” is used loosely to describe groups of men that congregate together and support each other’s efforts, with violence if necessary. I am no specialist on this, but I figure there are a couple of different groups described with this word.

Some gangs are quite professional and are organized along the lines of companies or military units. Such crime companies often have names and other identifying attributes. Crime companies are what you see at the funerals described earlier.

Some gangs represent regional and historical interests. Some of these interests date back to China and have political connections. Some of these gangs are crime companies and some of them groups used to enforce political or personal problems that the law can’t handle.

The most common group that foreigners refer to as ‘gangsters’ are just local guys who hang out together. Almost certainly, most of the so-called ‘gang-related’ incidents that foreigners here are reporting involve local boys who get in trouble and telephone their friends and relatives for help. They’re gangsters in that they belong to a gang, but their gang isn’t an organization running guns into Taiwan from China.

Most “gangs” here seem to be just extended guanxi networks. In a society where rule of law is not all that strong, such “gangs” naturally step in to fill the power vacuum. Someone has to establish order in a society where the police are 90% useless except for handing out traffic tickets.

Luo Fu-zhu was actually an independent, although he and the KMT had close ties as a result of the KMT’s “localisation” drive in the 1980’s. At the beginning of the Lee Teng-hui era the KMT saw it needed to make serious inroads at the local political level in order to maintain its grip on power after the emergence of nativist organizations like the pro-Taiwan Tangwai movement (itself an outgrowth of the KMT) and the DPP (in turn an outgrowth of the Tangwai movement) in the south.

Client-Patron deals were struck by the KMT with local chiefs and borough wardens (gang heads/ politically influencial figures with gangland connections) around the country (in Luo’s case, Pingtung county) where largesse would be fed down from the central government in exchange for pro-KMT votes. These local chiefs were a pragmatic bunch, and the potential business opportunities under this system trumped contempt for “mainlanders”.

This KMT “black gold” phenomenon continues to this day in the south. The Kaohsiung city council corruption case is a good example of how the KMT was able to place its candidates in powerful positions in the heart of DPP country. Taipei is not totally clean either, with the gang-related shooting of a city councilor in 2002 as an example of the politco-gangstah relationship. I’d venture to say most of the gangster-political shenanigans goes on outside of the major municipalities, in the counties where oversight is a lot more lax (just look at Yen Ching-piao’s jailhouse election as Taichung county commissioner a few years back).

Don’t know for sure just how much on the take the DPP is, but interestingly enough it was none other than Luo Fu-chu and other gangland figures in the legislative yuan who held out against Lien Chan’s move to impeach Chen in 2001 over CHen’s cancellation of the #4 nuclear boondoggle construction. Conventional wisdom held that Luo and the boys were hoping Chen would remember them as he implemented his anti-black gold capaign early on in his first term. Chen didn’t and Lo was eventually brought up on “corruption, fraud, breach of trust, usury, forging documents and misappropriation of funds”.

By the way, after having lived next to “KTV Land” in Taichung, I can attest that gangsters tend to prefer “My Way” by Frank Sinatra, and the masterworks of the King of Jinmen. :smiley: