Would any of you vote for old Gao? I’m planning on running on a strong anti-religious platform, slaughtering the sacred cows of the left and right wherever I can find the little bastards. I will mock liberal fantasy with as much fervor as I will condemn conservative greed and faux religiosity.
I take issue with this statement. You make it sound as if the left is not religious. It is. Watch how it genuflects to “diversity” and how it abases itself before the altar of global warming and how it does penance through protest marches. It may not call itself religious but it is and a mighty pathetic religion it is to boot (if only that were possible).
Believers in certain principles? I’d go along with that. It’s far better than being absolutely deluded in regards the limits of your power. Smacking down Iran today are we Freddles? In your dreams, sweetness.
HG
Principles? Smirk…
I take issue with this statement. You make it sound as if the left is not religious. It is. Watch how it genuflects to “diversity” and how it abases itself before the altar of global warming and how it does penance through protest marches. It may not call itself religious but it is and a mighty pathetic religion it is to boot (if only that were possible).[/quote]
See the parts in bold.
Besides, what you are referring to is ideology, but not religion in the traditional sense of the term. Maoist rebels in India who bomb Hindu shrines are not religious, but are ideological, for instance.
I take issue with this statement.[/quote]
Do you remember when greed used to be an insult? A sin? Greed has become fashionable. Conservatives wear it with pride. Loud and proud!
Do you think greed is consistent with Biblical law and morality? I posted up some passages on a different thread about this. I’ll cut and paste.
Deut. 15:7. If there is a poor man among you, one of your brothers, in any of the towns of the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart, nor close your hand to your poor brother; but you shall freely open your hand to him, and generously lend him sufficient for his need in whatever he lacks.
Deut. 26:12. When you have finished paying the complete tithe of your increase in the third year, the year of tithing, then you shall give it to the Levite, to the stranger, to the orphan and the widow, that they may eat in your towns, and be satisfied.
Is. 58:66ff. Is this not the fast which I choose, to loosen the bonds of wickedness, to undo the bands of the yoke, and to let the oppressed go free, and break every yoke? Is it not to divide your bread with the hungry, and bring the homeless poor into the house; when you see the naked, to cover him, and not to hide yourself from your own flesh?
Luke 12:33. “Sell your possessions and give to charity; make yourselves purses which do not wear out, an unfailing treasure in heaven, where no thief comes near, nor moth destroys.”
Luke 3:11. And [John the Baptist] would answer and say to them, “Let the man with two tunics share with him who has none, and let him who has food do likewise.”
And those uber-rich Republicans ought to pay attention to these verses too…
Is. 10:1-3. “Woe to those who enact evil statutes, and to those who continually record unjust decisions, so as to deprive the needy of justice, and rob the poor of My people of their rights… Now what will you do in the day of punishment, and in the devastation which will come from afar?”
Jer. 5:28f. “[The wicked] do not plead the cause, the cause of the orphan, that they may prosper; and they do not defend the rights of the poor. Shall I not punish these people?” declares the LORD. “On such a nation as this, shall I not avenge myself?”
And here’s the classic:
Luke 16:19-25. “Now there was a certain rich man, and he habitually dressed in purple and fine linen, gaily living in splendor every day. And a certain poor man named Lazarus was laid at his gate, covered with sores, and longing to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table; besides, even the dogs would come and lick his sores.
Now it came about that the poor man died and he was carried away by the angels to Abraham’s bosom; and the rich man also died and was buried. And in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far away, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried out and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool off my tongue; for I am in agony in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your life you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus bad things; but now he is being comforted here, and you are in agony…’”
As I said in that other thread, the necessity to care for the poor is a recurring theme throughout the Old and New Testaments. Whether God is expressing concern for the poor, issuing commandments to take care of them, blessing those who serve them, issuing threats and punishments for not serving the poor, or personally identifying himself with the poor, he is making his intentions clear. It’s as simple as that. Jews and Christians are bound by God’s law to care for the poor. If you disagree then explain why and back up your position with the Bible.
Here’s a story from Genesis that everyone is familiar with. It would take too long to post the whole thing as it’s written in the Bible, so I’ll just summarize:
One of Jacob’s sons, Joseph, finds favor in God’s eyes. He has dreams that seem to indicate he will rule over his brothers, and they get insanely jealous for it and conspire to kill him. Reuben convinces them to leave him in a pit instead, but some of the others want to at least make a little profit (there you go fred!), so they sell him to Arabs (Ishmaelites), who in turn sell him on the slave market in Egypt to the captain of Pharaoh’s guard. After he jilts the captain’s wife, she falsely accuses him of attempted rape and so he is put in prison, where he correctly interprets the dreams of two other prisoners, a cupbearer and a baker. The baker gets hanged to death, as Joseph predicted, and the cupbearer gets freed and returned to duty, as Joseph predicted. Anyways, a couple of years go by and the cupbearer remembers Joseph. The Pharaoh two dreams, one where fat, healthy cows are eaten by thin ugly ones, and similar one with stalks of wheat. Pharaoh brings in magicians and soothsayers from all over the land, but none can interpret the dream. The cupbearer tells Pharaoh about Joseph’s skills in interpreting dreams, and so Pharaoh asked Joseph. Joseph tells him that it is God, not him who can interpret the dreams, but anyways tells Pharaoh to expect seven years of bountiful harvests and seven years of famine. Pharaoh sees that God is with Joseph, and so makes Joseph governor over all of Egypt. During the seven years of fruitful harvests, Joseph takes away 1/5 of everyone’s harvest and stores it up in the granaries. He eventually gathers so much grain from the farmers that he doesn’t even bother measuring it anymore, it is so bountiful. So the famine comes, and the people are desolate. But not to fear, for Joseph has stored the grain. First, he feeds the Egyptians, and when he sees that famine has struck foreign lands as well, he feeds those peoples too. Thus Joseph saves the people of Egypt and the lands from famine. God is pleased and blesses Joseph.
Wasn’t Joseph such a dirty little socialist bastard? I mean come on, forcing farmers to give up 20% of their grain for seven years running and not paying for it? And then distributing it to the needy? And to make matters worse, instead of returning the grain to the farmers after the Egyptians were fed, he fed foreigners. Now imagine if an American politician were to suggest levying taxes on Americans to feed hungry people in Africa. He’d be ridiculed as a socialist and laughed out of office.
There are many stories in the Old Testament where God blesses those who feed the hungry, clothe the naked, heal the sick. In the New Testament we have the ministry of Jesus, which serves as a three year, living example of charity and goodwill. But Republicans seem to think that oppressing gays and wearing $1000 suits to church every Sunday fulfills their religious obligations.
I take issue with this statement.[/quote]
Do you remember when greed used to be an insult? A sin? Greed has become fashionable. Conservatives wear it with pride. Loud and proud![/quote]GBH -
A bit over the top with this one, eh?
I think you can make your points much more effectively without resorting to hyperbole and mis-characterization such as this.
But…possibly I am mis-understanding your post. It seems that frequently happens. Knuckle-dragging ‘Neanderthal’ that I am am…<nuanced & poignant sigh>
I take issue with this statement.[/quote]
Do you remember when greed used to be an insult? A sin? Greed has become fashionable. Conservatives wear it with pride. Loud and proud![/quote]GBH -
A bit over the top with this one, eh?
I think you can make your points much more effectively without resorting to hyperbole and mis-characterization such as this.
But…possibly I am mis-understanding your post. It seems that frequently happens. Knuckle-dragging ‘Neanderthal’ that I am am…<nuanced & poignant sigh>[/quote]
I disagree. I don’t think that most conservatives consider greed sinful any longer. “It’s just business” you know. Anyways I made other points in that post. Care to address them? Fred? Doctor Evil? 
Greed is not good. Capitalism is. They are NOT the same and religious Americans are at the forefront of charitable donations. More important than giving money, however, is actually getting people up and on their feet. Democrats liked to label themselves the party that cared but what was welfare all about and has more spending on education delivered results? These programs are costly disasters in “caring” that have had tragic “results.” Compare this with the phenomenal job that parochial schools achieve in the same tough environments. Contrast this with the amazingly successful welfare reform measures passed in 1996 at the behest of the Republican Congress.
Theoretically speaking, greed is not capitalism. However, we are dealing with people here, and there is plenty of evidence showing that real people are greedy-and use capitalism (actually, power) to take whatever they want. Republicans show a strong tendency towards greed (and abuse of power).
To segue back on topic: Gore is good, Republicans are bad.
Juuuust yanking your chain. 
That can be said of people everywhere and of every political persuasion.
Most people use whatever means are (reasonably/legally) available to better their situations, and many employ unreasonable and or illegal means to this end.
[quote=“Tigerman”]That can be said of people everywhere and of every political persuasion.[/quote]fully agree
[quote=“Tigerman”]Most people use whatever means are (reasonably/legally) available to better their situations, and many employ unreasonable and or illegal means to this end.[/quote]Again agree.
So, would you listen to and then comment on Gore’s speech bemoaning Bush Administration efforts to dismantle or weaken the US constitution. Gore warns that the Bush Admin is using just those means you write of…
[quote]We have a duty as Americans to defend our citizens’ right not only to life but also to
liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It is therefore vital in our current circumstances that
immediate steps be taken to safeguard our Constitution against the present danger posed
by the intrusive overreaching on the part of the Executive Branch and the President’s
apparent belief that he need not live under the rule of law.[/quote]
and much more:
acslaw.org/node/2096
transcript:
acslaw.org/files/Gore-1-17-06.pdf
dismantle or weaken the Constitution? Great. In what areas? And given that we have a Congress controlled by the opposition, a media that is highly hostile to the president and a highly independent judiciary, just when and how is this going to happen? I mean we have heard all the Fascism coming to AmeriKKKa statements before, but when is someone going to actually show us or provide evidence that this is happening. Also, when he leaves office in 2009, it is highly likely that a Democrat will take his place. IF he has strengthened the executive branch (and have no other presidents attempted to do so?) won’t that benefit the wrong group after he leaves?
Hmmm…George Soros comes to mind for some reason…
Hmmm…George Soros comes to mind for some reason…[/quote]
yes, you’re right. Still, do you have any comments about the link I posted?
But the line does tend to blur sometimes, doesn’t it? I used to work for a Fortune 500 company in the finance department. The pay was great, but the atmosphere was cutthroat. No one in the company could see further than the end of the quarter. The bottom line was the name of the game. There was never any question of being too greedy. The more money we could get from our customers the better. It was a simple as that. The office was full of backstabbers.
I am not saying I dislike capitalism. In fact I think it is the best system possible for large societies, as long as there are good labor laws and some amount of regulation. But I disagree the line between greed and “just good business” as my bosses were fond of saying, is as clear as you make it out to be.
No doubt, but is it enough? Right now there is massive economic disparity in the world. What does the Bible teach us to do in such a situation?
How is that relevant from a Biblical perspective? Personally I support the welfare reforms Clinton signed into law (he could have vetoed the reforms you know, give him some credit). But I’m an atheist. Is welfare reform consistent with Biblical teachings?
McDonald’s or Walmart?
If THAT really was the corporate culture then I would imagine that the company was doing something especially right in terms of product price and quality. When the corporate culture is that misguided, the customer knows and goes.
Maybe that is why you are no longer working for a Fortune 500 company? Let’s face it. We can all talk about this that and the other but the bottom line is that companies that do not make money go out of business and someone else replaces them. Is that hard and cruel? Maybe but it is reality and one that the soft socialists don’t like to face. Is that a problem? Only when they determine national economic policy because then the whole nation rather than just an individual company goes down the drain and then well, then you have Africa… or possibly Latin America.
McDonald’s or Walmart?
If THAT really was the corporate culture then I would imagine that the company was doing something especially right in terms of product price and quality. When the corporate culture is that misguided, the customer knows and goes.
Maybe that is why you are no longer working for a Fortune 500 company? Let’s face it. We can all talk about this that and the other but the bottom line is that companies that do not make money go out of business and someone else replaces them. Is that hard and cruel? Maybe but it is reality and one that the soft socialists don’t like to face. Is that a problem? Only when they determine national economic policy because then the whole nation rather than just an individual company goes down the drain and then well, then you have Africa… or possibly Latin America.[/quote]
I see you didn’t answer my questions. Nice dodge.
Oh and as to this comment…
Neither would have brought me shame. When I first moved to Alabama I worked in a factory environment for several months before I got a professional job again. Have you ever done a hard day’s labor fred? Be honest now…
I always was taught that the goal of any successful business was to relieve it’s customers of as much money as possible while leaving them happy enough to keep giving you more.
Is that greed or just providing customers with what they want?