Guardian Unlimited Operation Clark County

Politics International Politics
1

Those helpful folks at the Guardian, a newspaper in Britain, launched an attempt at mass email to voters in Clark county Ohio.
Their intention was to help these voters in the USA understand that it was in their best interests to not vote to re-elect President G.W. Bush to another 4-year term as President of the United States of America.
The results have not been quite as they expected. While a few responded with a welcome return message, it appears that the majority are declining the outreach from their left-wing British interlopers.

Some of the responses are humorous. Quite a few express concern about their British bretherns use of the dental programmes available under National Health.

Read and enjoy! Quite entertaining.

2

The angry right-wing nutbars sound like the complete assholes they probably are in real life. I can understand the bristling against foreign meddling, though in the final analysis U.S. politics is now world politics, it affects all of us whether we like it or not, so the vituperation is uncalled for.

Even though I myself, a Canadian, still fully support the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, and as much as I can barely stomach the vacuous vitriol that passes for criticism by so many on the left, I believe that the evidence that Bush is unfit for office is simply overwhelming, and sincerely hope he loses the election. Problem is, the culture war in the U.S. that heated up in the 1990s, and is currently raging, means that a letter-writing campaign sponsored by a left-of-centre foreign paper is only going to inspire the knuckle-dragging right to dig their, erm, knuckles in even deeper.

3

How would you feel if American left-wing organizations were working to try and influence a Canadian election?

4

Writing letters? If I agreed with what they were saying, I’d say great. If I didn’t agree, I’d be pissed off. Human nature, right?

But if the leader of Canada were making decisions affecting the whole of the world, either way I’d understand their concern. C’mon, there’s a reason they’re not writing letters to Switzerland.

5

The gnomes of Zurich rule the world! Mwahahahahaha!

6

Shocking. :astonished: UK trying to influence a US election.

The US would never try to influence a foreign election now would it? :unamused:

[quote]Congress routinely appropriates tens of millions of dollars in covert and overt money to use in influencing domestic politics abroad.

The National Endowment for Democracy, created 15 years ago to do in the open what the CIA has done surreptitiously for decades, spends $30 million a year to support things like political parties, labor unions, dissident movements and the news media in dozens of countries, including China.

The endowment has financed unions in France, Paraguay, the Philippines and Panama. In the mid-1980s, it provided $5 million to Polish emigres to keep the Solidarity movement alive. It has underwritten moderate political parties in Portugal, Costa Rica, Bolivia and Northern Ireland. It provided a $400,000 grant for political groups in Czechoslovakia that backed the election of Vaclav Havel as president in 1990. For the Nicaraguan election of 1990, it provided more than $3 million in “technical” assistance, some of which was used to bolster Violeta Barrios de Chamorro, the presidential candidate favored by the United States.

And the endowment spent $1.6 million last year for political “institution building” programs in China, said Louisa Coan, the endowment’s program officer for East Asia. That was in addition to millions of dollars spent on Chinese-language broadcasts by the Voice of America and cultural exchanges designed to improve the image of the United States in Asia.

Those are among the more benign American efforts to intervene in the domestic politics of nations around the globe, activities that have been revealed in declassified documents, memoirs and records of congressional hearings.

Since the end of World War II, the United States, usually acting covertly through the CIA, has installed or toppled leaders on every continent, secretly supported political parties of close allies like Japan, fomented coups, spread false rumors, bribed political figures and spent countless billions of dollars to sway public opinion. [/quote]
emayzine.com/lectures/usmeddling.htm

[quote] MR. BLITZER: There is a story in the new issue of Time Magazine suggesting that there was an intelligence finding, a recommendation that the U.S. take overt or covert measures to help certain politicians in Iraq get elected in these upcoming elections. It came under some resistance from some members of the intelligence committees up on the Hill. What can you tell us about this?

SECRETARY POWELL: Well, obviously, we never discuss covert programs, but in this instance I will say that we have a record of overtly supporting candidates for government, candidates for office in governments that are going through the process of transitioning to democracy.[/quote]
state.gov/secretary/rm/36495.htm

7

No angry Brit responses yet…?

MT…you can be relied upon to post something completely off thread topic in an attempt to hijack. Dormitory radicals are funny.

And by the way, Che was a bald, out-of-favor bourgeois rich boy wannabe revolutionary, who tortured his former comrades and was kicked out of Cuba by Fidel and Raoul.
They were disgusted with his drinking and increasing sadistic activities. He was turned in by the ‘peasants’ he was trying to organize.
They also became sickened by his…unusual tastes and cruel depravity.
Now they make a tidy income selling t-shirts and trinkets to wannabe ‘Internationals’ hiking the “Che’” trail…LOL.

“But it looks good on You!”…Rodney Dangerfield - RIP
“Che-babies” are so hilarious…LOL

8

Maybe MT just does not know how much of a joke Che really is Tainan Cowboy:

Or maybe he really believes that Che is a hero worthy of emulation which would account for the tenor of his posts. Either way, the joke remains, sadly unfunny.

9

Sir Frederich,

MT is evolving into a mere caricature.

10

Why expect an angry Brit response, so the Guardian tried to influence the voters of Ohio, well jeez aint that a shame, yes it is wrong, but much less so than the antics of the piss poor USG in meddling with other countries elections, which it has been doing for many a year.

11

Whatever you say, Cowboy. Your article concerns Brits trying to influence a US election when in fact the US has made extensive efforts to influence elections around the world at huge costs for years. In your case it involved a newspaper and not the govt. Whoopdee doo. My post was not off topic at all.

As for the fact that you and Freddy are bothered by Che, oh boo hoo hoo. Maybe I should pick a new avatar to make you happy. How about a Stalin avatar. No, that’s no good, Stalin was a mass murderer. Funny how that never bothered you girls.

Finally, I agree with porcelainprincess: it’s interesting what a bunch of obnoxious assholes the Bush supporters at the link you provided are. You don’t suppose that sampling is representative of Bush supporters in general, do you? Nah, couldn’t be.

12

MT:

I know the answer to that one. Because obviously the Stalin avatar like my Chirac avatar is a joke. Get it? A f***ing joke. haha

Now, I find it interesting that yet again you are the first to rush to point out America’s defects. But America is even worse you yell and scream. Is this a lifetime calling for you or are you just going through a period of angst? Do you also rush to tell your competition how bad your firm is, how awful your wife and children are, you parent, your apartment complex etc. There are medicines and counseling services available should you so require. Please p/m me and I will put you in contact with the appropriate agency.

13

Fred,

Did I criticize the US? No.

Did I state that the US tries to influence foreign elections? Yes, in response to a couple of yahoos who started this thread, apparently finding it inappropriate for Brits to try to influence a US election. I was simply pointing out that it’s nothing new or unusual and the US does the same thing in spades.

So, quit being so defensive about the US and lay off the personal insults asshole.

14

I refuse to make a negative comment regarding the general populace of Canada.
Red Green is a personal hero and exemplifies the true Spirit Of Canada! Grew up with SGT. Preston on the TV.
Jazz Festivals on the island…O CANADA!
And once, in another life, I spent several drunken days on a Caribbean island with a group that included the former Mrs. Trudeau. Pierre was angry on the telephone.
Canada is a fine place. Lots of trees and lakes. And those friendly Quebecois (sp?), just love 'em all!

15

Well, it’s so good to see some Americans are holding onto our stereotypes like they are gold. Honestly, some of those posts are an embarrassment.
Here’s a small sample of the “intelligent” :unamused: responses.

“Have you not noticed that Americans don’t give two shits what Europeans think of us? Each email someone gets from some arrogant Brit telling us why to NOT vote for George Bush is going to backfire, you stupid, yellow-toothed pansies…”

"KEEP YOUR FUCKIN’ LIMEY HANDS OFF OUR ELECTION. HEY, SHITHEADS, REMEMBER THE REVOLUTIONARY WAR? REMEMBER THE WAR OF 1812? WE DIDN’T WANT YOU, OR YOUR POLITICS HERE, THAT’S WHY WE KICKED YOUR ASSES OUT. FOR THE 47% OF YOU WHO DON’T WANT PRESIDENT BUSH, I SAY THIS … TOUGH SHIT! "

"Hey England, Scotland and Wales,
Mind your own business. We don’t need weenie-spined Limeys meddling in our presidental election. If it wasn’t for America, you’d all be speaking German. "

WTF?!!Ok, enough already. Hopefully, all Americans won’t be judged in a negative way simply based on the foolish posts from a few of our, um, mentally defective citizens.

16

[quote=“Mother Theresa”]

As for the fact that you and Freddy are bothered by Che, oh boo hoo hoo. Maybe I should pick a new avatar to make you happy. How about a Stalin avatar. No, that’s no good, Stalin was a mass murderer. Funny how that never bothered you girls. [/quote]

Sorry for my insult above Comrade Che. Us mass-murderers have to stick together…especially when someone like you is very evidently a true believer, da? BTW, would like to buy some stock in an up and coming document shredder manufacturer I found. Once the fascist AmeriKKKans are booted out of Iraq and Saddam is returned to power, I feel confident my investment will triple or perhaps even quadruple! Now’s a good time for you to get in on the ground floor.

:bravo: :laughing: :bravo: :laughing:

17

I enjoyed the article, and I wasn’t at all ashamed of the American responses. I think that a hostile response is to be expected under the circumstances. Additionally, some of the thoughtful, polite responses said essentially the same thing as the rude ones. I’m sure the paper knew that what they were doing was close to pure chutzpah.

But I admire their chutzpah, and my hat’s off to the Guardian for printing a good, representative sampling, which was also fun to read. Here’s a good one:

[quote]My dear, beloved Brits,
. . . Thank heavens! I was adrift in a sea of confusion and you are my beacon of hope! . . . I am something of an anglophile, so this is not confrontational. Please remember, too, that I am merely an American. That means I am not very bright. It means I have no culture or sense of history. It also means that I am barely literate, so please don’t use big, fancy words.
Set me straight, folks![/quote]

18

It is a terrible thing to know that you are superior to the rabble, isn’t it? Sometimes one must take a break from the stench of your “great unwashed” countrymen and leave to meditate and plot as Comrade Lenin did. Have sweet dreams tonite Comrade Che of the vengence you will call down on your weak and stupid AmriKKKan brothers and sisters when you return from exile. A more deserving lot for the Gulag could exist no where else.

:bravo: :bravo: :bravo: :bravo:

19

MT is quite on topic to point out the irony in the responses of US citizens commenting on attempts by foreigners to influence US voters, when their own government, which they elected, does precisely the same.

Why all the angst?

20

An Honest Question

Has there been any allegation of UK government involvement in this Ohio campaign? Does this foreign government vs. foreign private actor dichotomy make a difference to how any of you would view this issue?

I haven’t spent a lot of time thinking about it, but my initial reaction is that there should be a lot less “angst” associated with a private foreign newspaper doing this kind of thing than there would be if the actor were a foreign government. Just a thought.

Incidentally, if I have missed something and indeed we are talking about foreign government action here – then I agree with Mother Theresa and hexuan that there would be a certain level of irony/hypocrisy in objecting to a foreign government trying to influence an election if it’s true that the US government does the same thing.

It’s worth noting, however, that pointing out the hypocrisy of those who criticise Action X is not exactly a defense of Action X is it? For example, the fact many of the foreign governments who criticised the US over the Abu Ghraib affair are themselves guilty prison abuse does not excuse the actions of the US troops does it?