What?
Those are the only examples that you can provide? Seriously?
The Maoist rebels did not promise the annihilation of every Nepali in Nepal. Likewise the IRA towards the Protestants.
Try harder.
As I have explained you cannot use the IRA as an example. Apples and pears. Read my post explaining. I have said that a solution is critical, but not at the expense of an unsecured Israel. This generally means recognition as a Jewish State no exception. Until this occurs Israel is safer with the status quo.
Gee, I said ‘satisfied’ or ‘happy’, or some such, and got jumped on.
Gee, I said ‘satisfied’ or ‘happy’, or some such, and got jumped on.[/quote]
You are puzzled by this?
Only a psycho would be ‘satisfied’ or ‘happy’ with this state of affairs. Israel is demonstrably NOT.
What?
Those are the only examples that you can provide? Seriously?
The Maoist rebels did not promise the annihilation of every Nepali in Nepal. Likewise the IRA towards the Protestants.
Try harder.[/quote]
Google is your friend. I didn’t say they were the only examples. It wouldn’t actually matter how many examples you had because you seem to be locked into one specific view only and won’t consider other ones.
FWIW, the Maoists left a trail of bodies of anyone who disagreed with them which is not that much different to Hamas.
But isn’t a facet of modern democracy meant to be a separation of church and state? How then can Israel claim to be a modern democracy if it’s based upon superstition?
What?
Those are the only examples that you can provide? Seriously?
The Maoist rebels did not promise the annihilation of every Nepali in Nepal. Likewise the IRA towards the Protestants.
Try harder.[/quote]
Google is your friend. I didn’t say they were the only examples. It wouldn’t actually matter how many examples you had because you seem to be locked into one specific view only and won’t consider other ones.
FWIW, the Maoists left a trail of bodies of anyone who disagreed with them which is not that much different to Hamas.[/quote]
That is your example?
Sorry. That doesn’t work.
Here’s a part of the Hamas Covenant:
[quote=“Hamas Covenant”]Our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious. It needs all sincere efforts. The Islamic Resistance Movement is but one squadron that should be supported…until the enemy is vanquished and Allah’s victory is realized. It strives to raise the banner of Allah over every inch of Palestine…It is one of the links in the chain of the struggle against the Zionist invaders…
The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: “The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him.'”…There is no solution for the Palestine question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors. Palestine is an Islamic land.
Zionist organizations under various names and shapes, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, espionage groups and others…are all nothing more than cells of subversion and saboteurs. The Islamic peoples should perform their role in confronting the conspiracies of these saboteurs.
Moslem society confronts a vicious enemy which acts in a way similar to Nazism. He has deprived people of their homeland. In their Nazi treatment, the Jews made no exception for women or children. [/quote]
And you think that Israel can negotiate with people like this?
Do you have ANY example of a peaceful, fruitful negotiation with someone like this?
The IRA and the Maoist rebels in Nepal don’t even come close to this.
Try again.
But isn’t a facet of modern democracy meant to be a separation of church and state? How then can Israel claim to be a modern democracy if it’s based upon superstition?[/quote]
Let me get this straight. You are challenging the concept of democracy by using the only democratic state in the region as an example? :loco:
Please say yes, ohh please say yes.
In the words of the Rock “I will layeth the smaketh down”
GTBK - As I said above, nothing offered will satisfy you. It only leads one to conclude that you’re happy with the current state of affairs as you seemingly have no interest in any alternatives. I’ve said a few times in this thread that Israel needs to win the hearts and minds of the Palestinians. Do that and Hamas’ charter will be irrelevant because they won’t have any support anyway.
BD6 - Where’s the challenge? It’s a simple yes/no question.
I don’t know anywhere that it explicitly states that a democracy is contingent on the separation of church and state. Secondly, Israel is a democracy and it is a secular state. Thirdly, democracy is based on a superstition namely, the Social Contract.
They usually go hand in hand which is why I was asking if it was a necessary factor. BD6 seems to be stating that Israel must be a Jewish state not a secular state. Isn’t social contract a theory or model and not a faith-based belief system?
They usually go hand in hand which is why I was asking if it was a necessary factor. BD6 seems to be stating that Israel must be a Jewish state not a secular state. Isn’t social contract a theory or model and not a faith-based belief system?[/quote]
I missed the question as to whether seperation of church and state was a necessary factor. I don’t know about necessary but it is certainly highly desirable. As for the Social Contract, how many theories or models are used to justify soveriegnty over the individual? Political Science is the new Theology. The Social Contract is completely a faith based belief system. In fact it is the direct successor to divine right as justification for rulership.
Oh, look at that: cease fire.
[quote=“BBC”]Israel and Hamas, the Palestinian Islamist group which governs the Gaza Strip, say they have agreed to a ceasefire after five days of violence.
The latest clashes began when militants crossed into southern Israel and killed eight Israelis on Thursday.
Subsequent Israeli air strikes on Gaza killed 15 Palestinians. One Israeli was killed in rocket fire from Gaza.
The Quartet of Middle East peace mediators - the UN, US, EU and Russia - has called for restraint.
Informal truce
A Palestinian official said that Hamas had agreed to ensure that the ceasefire was recognised by smaller militant groups in Gaza - which were responsible for most of the rockets fired at southern Israel in the past few days.
Prior to the announcement, Israeli media reported that 12 rockets launched from the Gaza Strip landed in southern Israel overnight. No injuries resulted.
But on Monday, Gaza’s Popular Resistance Committees (PRC) - last to agree to the truce - agreed to halt rocket fire against Israel as a “temporary” measure “for the sake of the Palestinian people”.[/quote]
There can’t be a cease fire because Israel won’t talk to Hamas until they change their charter. How can they possibly negotiate a cease fire? 
[quote=“Got To Be Kidding”]So, let me get this straight. Hamas has demonstrated a determination to eliminate the State of Israel and kill all the Jews - in both word and deed.
You think that Israel can negotiate with something like that?[/quote]
No. The only people who think that are idiots. Not merely naive, mind you, but absolute, utter morons.
A cease fire is usually declared. Not negotiated. Any side can call it. If the other side accepts it it is a yes/no.
By the way hamas declared it a temporary measure for the benefit of the palestinian people. What about the Israeli people?
What hamas is really saying is. “We are going to get fucked up. We are now moving into civilian areas so we can use our people as human shields. Hopefully an Israeli missile will kill a child so we can use this for propaganda”
The question of whether Israel is a democracy can be answered by fact.
Every citizen has the vote. Jews, Christians, Muslims, Moonies, Hari Krishnas and even gays. The mad dog in Iran declared that Iran has no gays. Clipped in the back of the head no doubt.
People have freedom of association, press, to criticize the govt etc.
Name another country in the region as free.
I can read the Koran in Israel. There are countries in the reigion where bringing a bible in is against the law.
Although separation of church and state is not a democratic requirement Israel is really quite secular. I can eat bacon and eggs on Saturday without fearing a visit from the ministry of virtue and getting beaten. Even though the Jewish religion forbids it. All religions have equal rights. I can question the old testament and not be accused of blasphemy.
Try ordering a whiskey in Saudi.
Even those pesky woman folk and them black people have the vote (the horror). There is gender and racial equality.
I can go on.
Israel is Evil. If you don’t believe me, ask the UN.
Israel is Evil. If you don’t believe me, ask the UN.[/quote]
Uhh, yes the UN.
Please answer with facts to back up your statement. Otherwise you are free to add “In my opinion” to the beginning of your statement.
Also please point me to the relevant UN resolution you are referring too?
I was being sarcastic. I don’t defend the UN.