Harvesting Organs in China: the Preparation for Sujiatun

[quote=“TainanCowboy”][quote=“Jula”]But where do you get these information, from certain posts?

Please read Falun Gong’s main book Zhuan Falun, then you will really understand what Falun Gong’s teaching is.[/quote]Jula -
Not gonna happen.
Its easier for these religion bashers to show how “hip” cool" “with-it” and “ed-u-ma-cated” they are by making claim. Easier to spout intolerance than actually seek the truth about something they’ve been told is…oh so passe’.
Same group with the same comments every time.[/quote]

With all due respect, TC, people responding here are not religion bashers and FLG isn’t religion in the way Christianity or Buddhism is. It is a cult with a meglomaniac at it’s head. Followers believe the guy can fly and see into other dimensions. The religion preaches nonsense such as medicine isn’t necessary, disease is the fault of the sufferer, animal spirits possess normal people and mixed race children have no heaven. It’s all fine and dandy to be tolerant of religions and religious people, but there have to be limits. We shouldn’t have to tolerate stupidity and cult behaviour.

[quote=“TainanCowboy”]Jula -
Not gonna happen.
Its easier for these religion bashers to show how “hip” cool" “with-it” and “ed-u-ma-cated” they are by making claim. Easier to spout intolerance than actually seek the truth about something they’ve been told is…oh so passe’.
Same group with the same comments every time.[/quote]

Which of the statements I have made regarding Falun Gong theology are incorrect? Since you have apparently “sought the truth” and read the Zhuan Falun, maybe you could correct my mistakes, TC.

And it’s interesting that you believe reading the FLG holy book to be “seeking the truth,” considering that you’re a Christian. However, just to show you I’m a good sport, here’s some enlightenment from the Zhuan Falun, Lecture Six:

[quote]Cultivation Insanity

In the community of cultivators, there is this term called cultivation insanity. It has had a very big impact on the public. In particular, some people have publicized it so much that some people become afraid of practicing qigong. When people hear that practicing qigong can lead to cultivation insanity, they will be too scared to try it. In fact, let me tell you that cultivation insanity does not exist whatsoever.

Quite a few people have incurred possession by spirits or animals because their minds are not righteous. Their Main Consciousness are unable to control themselves and regard them as gong. Their bodies are dictated by the possessing spirits or animals, making them mentally disoriented or making them yell and scream. When people see that qigong practice is like that, they become too scared to practice. Many of you think that this is qigong, but how can this be qigong practice? This is only the lowest state of healing and fitness, yet it is very dangerous. If you are accustomed to this way, your Main Consciousness will always be unable to control yourself. Then your body might be dominated by the Assistant Consciousness, foreign messages, possessing spirits or animals, etc. You might engage in some dangerous acts and cause great damage to the community of cultivators. This is caused by one’s immoral mind and the attachment to showing oneself off—this is not cultivation insanity. No one knows how some people have become so-called qigong masters, as they also believe in cultivation insanity. Actually, qigong practice cannot lead one to cultivation insanity. Most people learn this terminology from literary works, martial arts novels, and so on. If you do not believe it, you can look into ancient books or cultivation books, where there are no such things. How can there be cultivation insanity? It is impossible for such a thing to occur.

[…]

Demonic Interference in Cultivation

What is demonic interference in cultivation? It is the interference that we often run into in qigong practice. How does qigong practice invite demonic interference? There is actually much difficulty when one wants to practice cultivation. One simply cannot succeed in genuine cultivation without the protection of my fashen. As soon as you step out the door, your life may be in danger. One’s Primordial Spirit does not become extinct. Then, in your social activities in past lives, you might once have owed others, bullied others, or committed other wrongdoing. Those creditors will look for you. It is said in Buddhism that one lives because of karmic retribution. If you owe someone something, he will find you for the repayment. If he gets too much repayment, he will have to return the surplus to you the next time around. If a son disrespects his parents, they will trade places in the next life. This is how it cycles on and on. But we have indeed observed demonic interference, which prevents you from practicing qigong. All these have karmic relationships and are not without reason. It will not be allowed to be so without a reason.

The most common form of demonic interference occurs as follows. Before you practice qigong, your environment is relatively peaceful; because you have learned qigong, you always like to practice it. As soon as you begin the sitting meditation, however, it suddenly becomes noisy outside the room. There are sounds of car horns, walking in the hallway, chatting, doors slamming, and a radio from outside. It is suddenly no longer quiet. If you do not practice qigong, the environment is quite peaceful, but once you begin the qigong practice, it is like this. Many of you have never thought about it further. What’s really going on? You only find it odd and feel quite disappointed about being unable to practice qigong. This “oddness” will stop your practice. It is a demon interfering with you, as it manipulates people to disturb you. This is the simplest form of interference, and it can achieve the goal of stopping your qigong practice. If you practice qigong and achieve the Tao, what about those unpaid debts you owe others? They will not allow it, so they will not let you practice qigong. Yet it is also an indication of a certain level. After a period of time, this phenomenon will no longer be allowed to exist. In other words, after these debts are worn out, they will not be allowed to come and interfere again. This is because those who practice cultivation in our Falun Dafa make rapid progress, and they also make quick breakthroughs in their levels.

There is another form of demonic interference. You know that through qigong practice our Celestial Eye can open. With the Celestial Eye open, some people may see some frightening scenes or scary faces while practicing qigong at home. Some have messy, long hair, and some want to fight you or even make various moves that are quite frightening. Sometimes one will see them all crawling outside the window, looking very scary. How can this situation occur? This is a form of demonic interference. In our Falun Dafa school, however, this case is very rarely seen. Perhaps it happens to one out of a hundred people. Most people will not encounter this situation. Because it does not have any benefit for your practice, it is not allowed to interfere with you like this. In other conventional practices, this kind of interference is the most common phenomenon, and it will last quite a long period of time. Some people cannot practice qigong and become frightened simply for this reason. One usually chooses to practice qigong in a quiet environment at night. If one sees a person standing before one’s eyes who looks half-ghost and half-human, one will be too scared to practice qigong. Usually, there is no such phenomenon in our Falun Dafa. But there are a few extremely rare exceptions, as some people have very special situations.[/quote]

Here’s the link. I do suggest you keep reading, as the demons of lust are described next. Pay particular note to the paragraph beginning with “So what kinds of demons of lust will one encounter?”, which describes the result of encounters with lust demons in shall we say, messy detail.

Thanks to Jula and TC for recommending the Zhuan Falun. I mean, I knew the FLG beliefs were nutty, but this thing is a veritable treasure trove of insanity! Very entertaining!

The purpose you read the book is to find sth you donot understand and…, that is not reading.

I notice that this thread is not to discuss belief, it is about the persecution, the basic human rights, so I think if one is interested at discussion about belief or religion, there are threads or forums for that purpose.

en.epochtimes.com/news/7-12-18/63050.html

[quote]Taiwanese Vice President Annette Lu attended the event and gave a speech to condemn organ harvesting from living Falun Gong practitioners and other human rights abuses in communist China.

[/quote]

there are some politians who have conscience.

Professor Stephen Wigmore, who chairs the society’s ethics committee, told the BBC that the speed of matching donors and patients, sometimes as little as a week, implied prisoners were being selected before execution.
Falun Gong aren’t the only targets, Jula. You know the Chinese, they shit on the street and butcher people, animals, the environment, anything they can get their hands on really.

[quote=“Jula”]
The purpose you read the book is to find sth you donot understand and…, that is not reading.[/quote]

Perhaps you could point out where these errors are, then. Or are you going to take another common FLG line and assert that, because we don’t believe, then we are not divine and cannot ever understand? Doomed to animal spirit possession, are we?

On the ropes here or what? FLG uses persecution of its members in China as a tool for proselytizing; it is their principal means of attracting new converts. Jula, you are here to proselytize and forward the agenda of your “religion.” If you are free to do that, members on this site have the right to point out the beliefs of the religion and its founder/spiritual head.


You must read widdout reading. :sunglasses:

Nice copout. Doesn’t sound like you belong to a cult trying to mask its stranger beliefs at all.

Toasty has already responded to this.

there are some politians who have conscience.[/quote]

Oh look! The vice president of a nation hostile to the PRC has accepted the unsubstiated claims of another entity hostile to the PRC, which, if true, would make the PRC out to be a bunch of bloodthirsty maniacs. I’m sure we’re all completely convinced now!

en.epochtimes.com/news/7-10-15/60792.html

maybe sby will say these doctors are against China, but no, they oppose the ccp’s inhuman crime.

[quote=“Toasty”]
members on this site have the right to point out the beliefs of the religion and its founder/spiritual head.[/quote]

As I know Falun Gong practitioners cultivate according to the nature of the universe—
to be true, good and endure
, this is what Falun Gong practitioners belive in.

But I notice sby try to focus on sth others, that is a pity.

[quote=“Jula”][quote=“Toasty”]
members on this site have the right to point out the beliefs of the religion and its founder/spiritual head.[/quote]

As I know Falun Gong practitioners cultivate according to the nature of the universe—
to be true, good and endure
, this is what Falun Gong practitioners belive in.

But I notice sby try to focus on sth others, that is a pity.[/quote]

You don’t sound like a cult member. NOooo. How about actually addressing what we are really talking about here. Any response at all to the points raised? None? Didn’t think so. Got to go out to lunch now. The animal spirit in me needs feeding.

[quote]Falun Dafa (also called Falun Gong, or just Dafa) is a high-level cultivation practice guided by the characteristics of the universe—
Truthfulness, Benevolence, and Forbearance
.

“Cultivation” means continuously striving to better harmonize oneself with these universal principles. “Practice” refers to the exercises – five sets of easy-to-learn gentle movements and meditation. Cultivating oneself is essential; practicing the exercises supplements the process.

[/quote]

falundafa.org/eng/intro.html

So I think those who have been misled can understand what Falun Gong practitioners are doing.

[quote=“Jula”]

So I think those who have been misled can understand what Falun Gong practitioners are doing.[/quote]

Do you wish to refute what others have said? You refuse to engage anything that anyone has said. Your quote does not address anything that I, or others, have written.

Happy new year to all!

I think you want to know what is Falun Gong, and what Falun Gong practitioners believe, right?

If so, I think I have explained at the level of my understanding.
Here are some more information:

[quote]Cultivators of Falun Dafa strive to cultivate their xinxing [mind-nature, or character] and remove their attachments to become kinder, more honest and more patient people. The higher one is able to elevate xinxing, the deeper the understanding one has of the teachings presented in Zhuan Falun (Falun Dafa’s primary text).

[/quote]

falundafa.org/eng/intro.html#moreabout

Happy new year to all!

I think you want to know what is Falun Gong, and what Falun Gong practitioners believe, right?

If so, I think I have explained at the level of my understanding.
Here are some more information:

[quote]Cultivators of Falun Dafa strive to cultivate their xinxing [mind-nature, or character] and remove their attachments to become kinder, more honest and more patient people. The higher one is able to elevate xinxing, the deeper the understanding one has of the teachings presented in Zhuan Falun (Falun Dafa’s primary text).

[/quote]

falundafa.org/eng/intro.html#moreabout[/quote]

38 posts and all of them FLG propeganda related. It’s pretty clear you aren’t prepared to discuss anything, or otherwise participate in the expat community.

I’m not even remotely interested in what you think of FLG practice, Jula. What I AM interested in is your thoughts on your charlatan of a leader, his nonsensical claims, and his bigotry, homophobia and racism. And why on earth anyone would wish to call themselves “followers” of such a completely deluded fool.

Umm, cos he can float? Don’t underestimate the significance of that in a country full of ready drowners!

HG

I think I can predict Jula’s response (I just cut and pasted it from another of Jula’s posts):

:laughing:

Being my first post outside of the cars & motorcycles section, I feel a bit out of my element. But after discovering this post, I feel I need to speak out for my support of Falun Gong. After reading through this thread and the arguements presented, I am suprised at the amount of sentiment which has been lodged against Falun Gong. Sure there are alot of things in the teachings which may seem “crazy”, but I don’t understand why people feel so offended or like they are personally being attacked. As far as my understanding goes, the main “political” goal of FLG is to be left alone and able to practice thier beliefs. Basic human rights which everyone should have. Sure you can pick apart the teachings and find stuff that doesnt make sense, but is it really your place to do so? I don’t go around making fun of other religions/spiritual beliefs, even cults. I have seen no reliable evidence that FLG has done anything to harm people’s way of life, or has any evil intentions. You can argue motives all you want, but of course its all speculation. Organ harvesting is just one of the issues that FLG has used to help bring light on it’s cause. Why is it so hard to at least feel some pity for people who are suffering so much persecution. I don’t think one can understand the situation unless they feel what its like to live in a country where you don’t even have the freedom to believe. Constant oppression and persecution, and yet FLG always turns the other cheek. This is a remarkable achievement in my book. Coming from a free country, I’ve always believed that we have to stand up for our rights, freedom or death. I would be one of the first to fight for a cause I believed in if that was the right path. I don’t know if I could handle facing the situation like most FLG practitioners do who live in China. For that they have my applause, admiration, and deep respect. :bow:

No. They are actively campaigning against the government of the PRC.

Convincing people that they are possessed by animal demons who are trying to destroy them is harmful and evil. Harassing members who try to leave the group is harmful and evil. Lying to the public about “organ harvesting” is harmful and evil.

They haven’t produced any hard evidence that they’re actually suffering that persecution. The brunt of the evidence weighs against their claims.

Of course freedom of religion is restricted in China, but if the FLG weren’t so disruptive I doubt the PRC government would care about what they do. They’d be as ignored as any other mystical Taijiquan group waiving their arms around in the park.

No they don’t. They make outrageous claims about organ harvesting and campaign relentlessly against the government.

So you’d die fighting for the rights of a gaggle of snake oil salesmen? Well, everybody’s got to do something.

That’s one approach. I have no respect for them whatsoever. That’s another approach.

whether or not you feel that FLG is an anti-communist organization isn’t really the issue. The real issue is that people should be granted basic human rights, no matter what thier spiritual beliefs are. Evidently, your view of what is “evil” is far different from what the vast majority of people would consider it to be. When I think of “evil” I picture more of a opressive regime that restricts all kinds of freedom and imprisions and tortures those who fail to fall in line. Why would you take the CCP as having more credibility? They are rated as having one of the worst media freedom scores in the world. What are the lies about organ harvesting you refer to? and the evidence against thier persecution? I have seen plenty of “hard” evidence of thier persecution in the form of photographs and first hand accounts. Noone says you have to respect the FLG, if you think they’re a bunch of crazy people you are entitiled to your own opinion. But FLG doesnt say that you have to believe in them or face the consequences, the CCP does.