How Amateur Sleuths Broke the Wuhan Lab Story and Embarrassed the Media

I didn’t hedge my bets. I was clear from the start that it was an accidental release. Got labelled as a conspiracy theorist, so I probably shouldn’t label you as one for positing the deliberate release theory.

We’ll probably never know for sure.


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Tell me you are joking :unamused:

So not only has the virus hit the expat community in Taiwan invisibly, but also the Taiwanese/Chinese everywhere and in Taiwan (as well as some Taiwanese friends of mine in the US and UK who I know got infected) didn’t actually catch the virus, but were faking it or something? You realize that is being implied with this trashcan “ethnic bioweapon” theory?

Trashcan theory? Not really.

The question is, if it is an ethnic bioweapon, then how did they achieve it - there has been highly suspicious deep-dive in Neanderthal DNA gene research in China as well as “ancestry DNA” tests around the world - whoever has access to that genetic data could potentially do harm, and it appears China has indeed obtained some access.

Covid Severity - Neanderthal DNA Link:

. Substantial evidence now indicates that our genetic background may be involved in the transmissibility of SARS-CoV-2 and the rapid progress of COVID-19 in some infected individuals. Although both morbidity and mortality of COVID-19 strongly depends on key factors such as age and co-existing health conditions, potential classes of human genomic variants possibly affect the likelihood of SARS-CoV-2 infection and its progress.

Of course I’m not joking. I doubt you’ve ever bothered to check the official government figures, but virtually nobody under 50ish was seriously harmed by COVID, anywhere. A majority of foreigners in Taiwan are young-ish professionals due to the terms of their visa.

And “infected” is not the same thing as “dead”. Try asking dead people if you don’t believe me.

My thesis is that Taiwan has been COVID-free for a year, therefore no person who had COVID-like symptoms in 2020 could have had COVID. Taiwan isn’t actually an outlier: there are dozens of countries claiming that they haven’t had any COVID cases/deaths - chart below. One likely explanation is that, since COVID has only one or two unique symptoms that are easily missed and don’t always occur, they simply haven’t checked.

Anyway, I wasn’t claiming incontrovertible proof that China actually had invented an ‘ethnic bioweapon’. I was just interested to read that it was theoretically possible and pondering on the possible implications.

I see you continue to disregard the recent studies from the UK and Ireland linked in the Long Covid thread.

Doing so is your business of course, but I remain intrigued by your unshakeable confidence in asserting absence in the face of these findings. :neutral_face:



Look at the statistics. Large numbers in the context of large populations are actually not as large as you think.

Of course I realise that the goalposts of fear have now moved to “long COVID”, although as per the latest post in that thread it appears that the syndrome is correlated to the same underlying problems that cause complications with … um, short COVID. Anyway: if 10% of the UK population have been recorded as “cases”, and if 25% of them were moderate-to-serious, and if one-third of them ended up with debilitating “long COVID” (I’m being very generous with the numbers here) then 0.75% of the population have some form of “long COVID”. Of course it sounds a lot more impressive if you say “half a million”. Estimates of two million from the fearmongering press are highly implausible: that would be one-third of all recorded cases.

As for my choice of words, I’m speaking relatively (relative to more serious issues that have been with us for a while and are routinely ignored):

“long COVID” might be a problem. It is not the problem. Nor is it a problem that can be addressed via the magic of vaccines.

Well I guess this remains again a matter of risk assessment.

In my line of work (and I suspect for many people) cognitive damage is not a plus.


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Exactly - and we absolutely should ponder the implications.

We’ve learned that even in the face of the Wuhan Lab Leak narrative which has swung from impossible to possible, that we should consider the possibility of ethnic bioweapons, and absolutely studies should be done to arrive at a concrete conclusion. If we don’t, what happens if its true and China does it again? Are we open to a 2-3 year lockdown cycle every time China doesn’t get a good enough trade deal?

Wuhan Lab Leak
2020 - Impossible --------> 2021 - Possible ------> 2022 - Lab Origin Confirmed?

2020 - Natural -----> 2021 - Accidental ------> 2022 - Deliberate?

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I just noticed you misquoted me. I said “virtually nobody under 50ish”. The UK ONS recorded 5000 deaths “with” COVID in the 0-60 agegroup during 2020. I can’t find case numbers grouped by age; however, it seems highly unlikely that long COVID cases would be two orders of magnitude higher than deaths.

I copied and pasted your quote, so not sure where the misquotation lies.


It doesn’t seem to have held you back so far. :wink:


Yes but remember some of us have very little space to fall. :upside_down_face:


Fair enough, you misunderstood the implications. Not misquoted.

It seemed like common sense back then it was a viable possibility the virus could escape from the Wuhan Lab, esp if the origin of the virus was Wuhan. But the vast majority of mainstream media outlets called everyone who wanted investigation in that direction a Tin Foil conspiracist rather than doing journalistic work and looking at all rational possibilities. I don’t know why that became a bandwagon for Democrats to jump on and defend.

I don’t know why it was also pinned as a Right Wing conspiracy by the main stream media outlets like CNN, MSNBC, Wapo…I doubt anyone on the Left who jumped on that bandwagon spent a second to question and examine how they were so easily misled or why it even had to be politicized. It was just common sense to look into and be open to all rational possibilities to find the truth.


Yes and hence the valuable work of those amateur sleuths, including in the early days guys like laowhy .



This story keeps on giving. :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

Wuhan scientists planned to release coronavirus particles into cave bats, leaked papers reveal

Documents reveal researchers applied for $14m to fund controversial project in 2018

BySarah Knapton, SCIENCE EDITOR, The Telegraph, 21 September 2021 • 5:48pm


Daily life in Wuhan

Workers wearing protective clothing disinfect a shopping centre in Wuhan CREDIT: China News Service

Coronavirus Article Bar with counter

Wuhan and US scientists were planning to release enhanced airborne coronavirus particles into Chinese bat populations to inoculate them against diseases that could jump to humans, leaked grant proposals dating from 2018 show.

New documents show that just 18 months before the first Covid-19 cases appeared, researchers had submitted plans to release skin-penetrating nanoparticles and aerosols containing “novel chimeric spike proteins” of bat coronaviruses into cave bats in Yunnan, China.

They also planned to create chimeric viruses, genetically enhanced to infect humans more easily, and requested $14million from the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (Darpa) to fund the work.

Papers, confirmed as genuine by a former member of the Trump administration, show they were hoping to introduce “human-specific cleavage sites” to bat coronaviruses which would make it easier for the virus to enter human cells.

When Covid-19 was first genetically sequenced, scientists were puzzled about how the virus had evolved such a human-specific adaptation at the cleavage site on the spike protein, which is the reason it is so infectious.

The documents were released by Drastic, the web-based investigations team set up by scientists from across the world to look into the origins of Covid-19.

In a statement, Drastic said: “Given that we find in this proposal a discussion of the planned introduction of human-specific cleavage sites, a review by the wider scientific community of the plausibility of artificial insertion is warranted.”

The proposal also included plans to mix high-risk natural coronavirus strains with more infectious but less dangerous varieties.

The bid was submitted by British zoologist Peter Daszak of EcoHealth Alliance, the US-based organisation, which has worked closely with the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) researching bat coronaviruses.

Team members included Dr Shi Zhengli, the WIV researcher dubbed “bat woman”, pictured below, as well as US researchers from the University of North Carolina and the United States Geological Survey National Wildlife Health Centre.

Dr Shi Zhengli

Darpa refused to fund the work, saying: “It is clear that the proposed project led by Peter Daszak could have put local communities at risk”, and warned that the team had not properly considered the dangers of enhancing the virus (gain of function research) or releasing a vaccine by air.

Grant documents show that the team also had some concerns about the vaccine programme and said they would “conduct educational outreach … so that there is a public understanding of what we are doing and why we are doing it, particularly because of the practice of bat-consumption in the region”.

Angus Dalgleish, Professor of Oncology at St Georges, University of London, who struggled to get work published showing that the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) had been carrying out “gain of function” work for years before the pandemic, said the research may have gone ahead even without the funding.

“This is clearly a gain of function, engineering the cleavage site and polishing the new viruses to enhance human cell infectibility in more than one cell line,” he said.

Daszak was also behind a letter published in The Lancet last year which effectively shut down scientific debate into the origins of Covid-19.

Wuhan testing

Residents in Wuhan are tested for coronavirus in April 2020 CREDIT: Roman Pilipey/Shutterstock

Viscount Ridley, who has co-authored a book on the origin of Covid-19, due for release in November, and who has frequently called for a further investigation into what caused the pandemic in the House of Lords, said: “For more than a year I tried repeatedly to ask questions of Peter Daszak with no response.

“Now it turns out he had authored this vital piece of information about virus work in Wuhan but refused to share it with the world. I am furious. So should the world be.

“Peter Daszak and the EcoHealth Alliance (EHA) proposed injecting deadly chimeric bat coronaviruses collected by the Wuhan Institute of Virology into humanised and ‘batified’ mice, and much, much more.”

A Covid-19 researcher from the World Health Organisation (WHO), who wished to remain anonymous, said it was alarming that the grant proposal included plans to enhance the more deadly disease of Middle-East Respiratory Syndrome (Mers).

“The scary part is they were making infectious chimeric Mers viruses,” the source said.

“These viruses have a fatality rate over 30 per cent, which is at least an order of magnitude more deadly than Sars-CoV-2.

“If one of their receptor replacements made Mers spread similarly, while maintaining its lethality, this pandemic would be nearly apocalyptic.”

EcoHealth Alliance and the Wuhan Institute of Virology have been aproached for comment.



Favorite trick which I keep repeating.

copy the address and then open a window in incognito, top right select the 3 dots and “more tools” then “developer tools” then press Ctl + Shift + P and type Java, click on disable debugger disable java. then paste the address. Change will only affect the incognito window and will be gone when you close it.

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Thank you! Edited for content to be readable.


Redding this makes me sick in the stomach.