How Amateur Sleuths Broke the Wuhan Lab Story and Embarrassed the Media

For scientific purposes, it may be useful to track the origin to prevent the same thing from happening again, naturally.

:egg:

Do go on!

Oh this is my favorite part, the comments about how random people ā€˜knewā€™ this is was the outcome, when thereā€™s still no solid evidence for any outcome! :rofl:

Time to use that big :brain: of yours. Everyone else has figured what the other possibilities are.

I have. There are 2 logical possibilities, which were always logical. Lab leak or wet market.

What else do you reckon the other possibilities ā€˜everyone elseā€™ has figured out are?

I have no idea, why donā€™t you tell us all what you think, since you state how obvious they are. Iā€™ll admit to being stupid, please enlighten. :popcorn:

Given the political control and secrecy, itā€™s impossible to do a rigorous scientific study. Thereā€™s no way to get evidence if youā€™re not even allowed to examine ground zero.

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Yes, it also doesnā€™t mean random speculation holds any water either.

But it also works in reverse. If it is indeed random speculation, why is China so desperate to cover it up? Why are US scientists and other agencies toeing that line?

What exactly have they got to lose? The biggest thing that would come out of this is - yes US and other countries funded virus research in China to produce mutant strains. Somehow it escaped and became a pandemic.

If this is not so, why bother with the secrecy at all? What else is there to hide ?

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It is I would suggest fairly obvious, it could have been naturally occurring (1) or it could have been developed in a lab and accidentally released (2) OR it could have been developed in a lab and deliberately released (3).

If you want to be scientific and cover all bases, those are the options. Although option (3) we would all hope would be unthinkable, from a scientific point of view, itā€™s still there. IMO looking at how China freaked out and how Fauchi also freaked out when in his own emails the subject of gain of function and a possible lab leak was brought up seems to suggest option (3) is highly unlikely.

I have read around this quite a bit and seems even option (2) will be very hard to prove definitively even if it is true. The best we may hope for it seems will be a preponderance of the evidence suggests it may have leaked from a lab.

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My point really isnā€™t that some things arenā€™t possible, but that declaring something as true or even very likely, in absence of evidence (not you specifically) would seem to be more appropriate to a conspiracy theory board, not a science topic.

I mean, thereā€™s a lot of eagerness showing. Maybe itā€™s to self-satisfy personal ego, maybe itā€™s driven by desire to push political narrative.

But the important part is, when people are declaring, or acting like things are true that havenā€™t been proven to be such, it reveals a kind of agenda not rooted in evidence.

Weā€™re dealing with China.

'Nuff said.

Guy

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I wouldnā€™t put it past China to do something that evil. But it doesnā€™t really make sense to release something intentionally on your own population.

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I thought the same but when I read the article I see they have dug up a treasure trove of corroborative evidence over the last year that conclusively established a pattern of lying from the key players.

If it was a criminal case you may have enough to convict there even without the smoking gun.

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Having read what has been uncovered I donā€™t see random speculation I see a lot of evidence based speculation and a cover up in play. They were doing GOF research, they knew that papers had been published determining that the miners had been infected by bat coronavirus.

I see the Chinese blocking all access to the mine sites and Yunnan bat caves, to WIV, to WIV personnel , to records and samples.

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I donā€™t think the ā€œdeliberately releasedā€ theory makes any sense.

The most obvious explanation is that this was a lab f&ck up and they knew it.

Guy

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Reducing the lab release theory to a baseless conspiracy theory could also be a desire to push a political narrative.

It has been odd, to the point of suspicious, why the lab release possibility has been so consistently attacked since the start of the pandemic.

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Itā€™s not a defense against that theory Iā€™m making, I think itā€™s entirely possible, and thereā€™s smoke. But itā€™s still circumstantial evidence, not definitive enough to be making definitive statements yet.

I donā€™t think itā€™s productive to leap to that endpoint, because these opinions on what happened (and they still are just opinions) can be easily used to drive other narratives.

Iā€™ll give you a preview of the main one, for example. People definitively leaping to lab being true, allows for the ā€˜gain of function/Fauciā€™ crowd to get whipped into their frenzy.

Spoiler alert, ā€˜Fauciā€™ and ā€˜gain of functionā€™ will be repeated endlessly in the same breath in the near future. It will not be a coincidence.

Meanwhile Fauci has testified they didnā€™t fund GOF at Wuhan, and stated heā€™s open to any investigation. But the show must go on! :mag_right:

Yes, reducing that out of hand, and also assuming anything to be true out of hand.

If the establishment was really open to an investigation, one would have happened now.

None of the top medical journals or scientific community leads are publicly saying anything to China - their attempts at hiding the truth and silencing people.

Sure China may have absolutely nothing to do with it - but why are the others convinced that that is true ?

Constantly reducing the lab release theory suggests the wet market source must be true. Even though it has less evidence to support it.

You do understand Iā€™m not arguing that a specific premise is true or untrue, but rather that definitive statements about truth that have yet to be proven as truths, are not productive, and often indicative of agenda.

I mean thatā€™s fine and all for spitballing, but people acting like something is fact that isnā€™t, on a science board, thatā€™s an issue.

Yes and people will act like that since any attempt at scientific investigation has been blocked from day 1.

The Chinese are not stupid. If they indeed had nothing to do with it, I donā€™t understand why block? In fact Iā€™d say they should have bent over backwards and called for an investigation themselves - within wuhan and other places. Itā€™d have given them a lot of scientific and political capital. So why didnā€™t they?

Judging from the statements from former US heads(Robert Redford) it may indeed be that China indeed wanted an investigation - yes as crazy as that sounds - but the US agencies blocked it. Secretly of course.